| Author |
Message |
    
manel albert (Mac66)
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 12:35 am: | 
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Hi,
I found a dealership that has two discos:
1: $21000 DI with 36k miles, leather and sunroof.
2: $23000 D2 with 31k miles, leather no sunroof and no ACE
I'm having a hard time making a decision, what do you think I should go for ?
thanks for your help! |
jim
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 12:37 am: |
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are they both 1999? |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 12:58 am: |
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If you plan on doing much off-roading I think you should seriously consider the DI. Now if you are planning on mostly using it to just drive around town you might appreciate the increased creature comforts of the DII a little more.
This is by no means meant to imply that the DII isn't an awesome truck off-road too, its just that the CDL, better departure angle, and field repairable axles (among other things) give the DI a little bit of an edge in many people's books. Of course you can add the DI CDL linkage to some DIIs and if you wouldn't know how to repair the DIs axles anyway that doesn't matter much either. |
manel albert (Mac66)
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 08:32 am: |
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both are 99's |
Paul D. Morgan (V22guy)
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 08:38 am: |
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I think the prices you listed in the Subject line are a bit high for those '99 vehicles. Depending where you live, I would shop around more for a better deal. |
manel albert (Mac66)
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 09:07 am: |
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I did some reasearch on AutoTrader.com and I thought the prices were actually cheaper than average. |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 09:08 am: |
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I think Carter hit the nail on the head. |
Kennith P. Whichard III (Kennith)
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 11:08 am: |
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I have a DII, which sees quite a lot of off-roading. The departure angle is a bit of a pain in the ass (pun intended).
I love the DII, but I equally love the DI. It's just that with the DII, I continually find myself trying to re-Land Rover it.
The DI is set up to be a more convenient off roader initially in my opinion, with better angles, more compact dimentions and more internal mounting points under all that pretty trim. With my DII I'm having to design my own.
Given the choice again, I'm not sure what I'd do, but I'd seriously consider getting back into landscaping so I could afford them both! 
Cheers,
Kennith
01 Disco II |
Glenn Guinto (Glenn)
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 11:34 am: |
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Kennith,
"re-Land Rover it".... that's an interesting way of putting it...
-glenn |
Chris Browne
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 12:03 pm: |
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Based on Eastern Mass prices both $$ numbers are way too high and I suggest you walk.
D11 of that year would be in the $17-19k
D1..say $10-11 tops |
RVR OVR (Tom)
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 12:06 pm: |
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If you are in the 20K plus range, consider a d90 if you are really thinking of off-roading more than daily driving.
If you are thinking very little about off-roading, get the DII, or maybe a Toyota or Honda, LOL.
Tom |
Milan
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 12:17 pm: |
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Prices aside, I'd pic the D1 for the reasons mentioned and also for the fact that room for the driver and front passenger was actually decreased in D2. The seats do have bigger seat cushions but the whole seat seems to be more forward (giving more leg room to rear passengers) and the bulkier trim of the D2 seems to squeeze me in more than in our D1. |
Dave_Lucas (Dave_Lucas)
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 12:33 pm: |
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For a daily driver that occasionally goes off-road I would go with a DII.
If I were looking for a vehicle that I would take off road a lot and needed to drive to work a decent distance I would get a D90.
Bottom line is that a 99 DII drives nicer, has the ability to engage CDL and does fine off-road. The DII is more comfortable for a daily driver than the d90 and DI. And yes you will need to do something about the ass of the DII if you get one, they do hang out a bit, but you can get a bumper to deal with that
That 99 DI is expensive, not as nice to drive on the road and if you are going to sacrifice comfort why not get a D90 for the same price and have a vehicle that is great off-road and will maintain it's value better. |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 12:37 pm: |
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One more real PITA with the D2 if you're using this as a trail vehicle is with the cross member aft of the front axle. It's a good place to get hung up on if your trails have lots of rocks and there isn't a slider that I know of yet for that location. |
Carter Simcoe (Carter)
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 01:11 pm: |
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I am about 95% sure they advertised the DII as having 1 inch more leg room up front than the DI. There IS more leg room in the rear, but they achieved that by making the whole truck longer and pushing the rear seats back, not by pushing the front seats forward.
As for the "if you are going to get a DI you may as well just get a D90" argument I think the DI is a pretty comfortable medium between the DII and the D90 and definitely serves its own unique purpose very well. (But they are right when they say if you are going to buy a DI for THAT price you may as well buy a D90). |
dave_lucas
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 01:35 pm: |
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Cartner,
Yea, I was speaking about the price of that DI, and I know I would get a DII or D90 over a DI for that price it just does not make sense.
Then again, If the prices of D90's were dropping like they are now when I got my DII I would have a D90 now so I may be biased. |
Chu Son
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 02:06 pm: |
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I'd say out of the 3, the d1s have the worst resale value right now. So that's a blessing and a curse. If you plan to keep it long, you can get it dirt cheap if you keep looking. But, if not, you'll lose a few bucks in a hurry. Which one do you prefer at the moment?
I remember when I first got my disco 2, i had driven d1s also, but I just liked the d2 better. The decision was simple as that.
As for offroading, I've gotten through where I've gone without much problem so far, so it's tough to comment on the big ass and the front crossmember issues. People comment on how the d1's departure angle is sooo much better, but I just think it's pretty close. I don't think that would be my reasoning on getting one or the other.
chu |
Greg Davis (Gregdavis)
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 02:38 pm: |
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And if you are 'wheeling enough that the rear overhang on the DII is too large, you can install a proper bumper and trim some sheetmetal, and off you go. And it won't lock hacked up either.
I drove both and went with the DII. I knew that as much as I thought I would 'wheel alot, reality dictated that I be comfortable Mon thru Fri. The DII just drove better to me. And with a few mods, it'll take you anywhere a DI will go, and sometimes even more. |
Rans (Rans)
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 03:10 pm: |
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The factor that sold me on a D2 after driving the "psycho-bitches" D1 (ex-gf, trust me you DON'T want to know!) was the added view thru the front windshield. If you are over 6ft, then you are going to find that the bar across the top of the windshield in the D1 is much lower and extremely annoying. The glass windshield in the d2 is taller. Also, there is a slight bit more legroom in the D2, and more sq footage of space in the back for hauling, not a substantial amount, but some.
Someone told me the D1 didn't have ETC available? I'm not sure if that is true or not. |
\Mike... (Mpeters)
| | Posted on Monday, September 30, 2002 - 03:20 pm: |
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and sometimes even more? lol -
greg, you should work for LR marketing..
take me with you! (grin) |
Rick Cordova
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 01:13 am: |
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Manel,
The D2 seems to be the base line (no frills)not to mention no sunroofs, whats up with that! I drive my `98 LSE daily and find that the seats are much more comfortable (I've gone on several road trips in the D2 and must say the D1 is more comfortable(the seats seem to be better padded). The LSE trim in my opionion looks just as nice if not better. The package has full wood as well as thick leather seats w/contrast pipping as the range rover :o, nice 7 disc (Just kidding 6 disc)stereo, sunroofs and a nice tight ass. Off roading the D1 can get you into and out of tight areas, offers more recovery points and shares the same frame and base susp. set up as the D-90. The D2 is also very good, it gives you extra load space, looks more updated. However you my friend are looking at the very base D2 which I would pass on and take the fully loaded D1 take the extra savings and outfit the D1. Price wise, for the rockies they both are about right on.
Good luck! |
Greg Davis (Gregdavis)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 10:03 am: |
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"and sometimes even more"
Mike, the only reason I added that was I've seen stock DI's with CDL struggle where a stock DII had a much easier time.
As much as I like CDL, if given the choice between CDL only or ETC only, with no lockers in the axles, I would choose the ETC. In a cross-axled situation, the ETC would do better than CDL only. Just my experiences and my opinion. |
Marc
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 10:21 am: |
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You are right about that, Greg.
I have a 95 DI, and was very impressed by the ETC in my buddy's DII. Now that I have a rear locker, though, I am sure that CDL/rear DL will be more effective. Just installed and trying it out this weekend at MAR.
See you guys there.
-Marc |
Leslie N. Bright (Leslie)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 10:50 am: |
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Rans,
No ETC in D1 Discos....
At was at MAR last year, following a D2 over some of the routes, and it was having a dickens of a time getting over things that my D1 rolled over w/o breaking a sweat, no spinning at all..... so I wasn't impressed, BUT! That was before I knew that much about the ETC system... Not knocking whoever had it, but I now realize it was driver error, that he didn't know how to use the ETC to get it to work for him, but instead was trying to baby it over the muddy hills, and so he wasn't making any progress at all.
Just learn to drive what you have.
-L |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 12:18 pm: |
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I thought the D1's (later versions) had ETC but only on the rear axle. I want to say 1998-1999 D1's but I'm not sure. It's not the 4wheel ETC that the D2 has. ETC is very nice but IMO it's not a reason to get one over the other. |
Kyle
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 12:23 pm: |
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Greg , is it Icey enough down there already that you have slipped and bumped your head ? Are we talking terrain on the dirt road safari ?
Kyle |
Greg Davis (Gregdavis)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 12:27 pm: |
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Now, now. Let's be nice. Do you think that CDL alone is better than ETC? Not talking about TT's, Detroit's, or anything like that. Just stock DI with CDL vs stock DII with ETC. Equal driver in both. |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 12:34 pm: |
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Greg, I think it depends on the situation. In a cross axle situation the ETC will win hands down. But in slippery climbs (and failed hill climbs) where there is lots of weight on the rear axle and little up front the CDL will win out. |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 12:43 pm: |
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al, no disco 1's had etc
some 93-95 classic rangies had it i think, just in rear.
rd |
Kyle
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 12:44 pm: |
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Yep , the CDL wins hands down. Why? Because the ETC is too hard on the system and will fail in the end because of it. Its no different then you being hard on your truck. If you are hard on it , it will eventually let you know about it... Making it once? Sure , and I have said this before , if you are fond of a one hit wonder then thats the ticket... Making it time and time again ? Well , I think you know the answer greg , you bought a detroit and installed CDL... I can remember back to when I was arguing with the DIIs former esteemed leader (Justin) about the ETC and that it didnt hold a candle to the CDL. I can also remember a whole pack of DII boys giving me non stop shit for that statement. Seems now adays thats forgotten and all anyone wants to know is "How do I lock the CDL" "Where can I buy a CDL kit" "Does my new Disco have CDL?" , and so on.... Disco 2 is nice no doubt. but it suffers in a few ways.....
Kyle |
Bill K (Bill_K)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 12:57 pm: |
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I dont know why there's such a comparison between DI and DII rides. My DI, with bilsteins, has the best ride I've ever experienced in a truck (meaning mini van, SUV, pick up truck, Explorer, G cherokee, Bronco, 4 runner, Pathfinder, etc)Coming around turns is almost like a car, with nice tight steering. I have to confess that I never rode in a DII so maybe I should shut up (but I wont), but how much better can it be? I think some people are just grasping for straws. I doubt the DII has ANY advantage over the DI. ESPECIALLY if you are the kind that isnt afraid to tinker (this excudes soccer moms and dads) When I replace my DI, it will be with a DII ONLY because when that time comes, a DI with low mileage will be impossible to find. I dread the day when my old pal gets traded in for a DII.... |
Greg Davis (Gregdavis)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 01:04 pm: |
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Well Kyle, I was talking about systems that work. Sure, there is more to go wrong with the ETC, but when operating, it's not too bad. Is it optimal? Not by a long shot. That's why I've done my other mods. But stock vs stock, from what I've seen (with different drivers in the vehicles) the DII's seem to have an advantage. Of course, like Al pointed out, there are some terrains where each will have its benefit. Just seems to me that the majority seem to automatically dismiss the DII for "hard core 'wheeling", when it's a very capable vehicle compared to the DI. |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 01:05 pm: |
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Why is the ETC hard on the system Kyle? It could be argued that CDL is hard on the driveline too.
Why are we on the topic of ETC over CDL. Both have advantages and disadvantages. Personally I like the option of putting a CDL into an ETC system. |
Brian Friend (Brianfriend)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 01:16 pm: |
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My opinion.
Depends on what you are buying it for. The d2 is more capable off road (in most situations)than the d1 if both are stock but that is where it ends. No point in adding lockers to a d2 unless you install a cdl and then of course there is no point in the traction controll anymore. d2 has less stock articulation than a d1, worse aproach and departure angles but there is more room for bigger tyres. I have seen a d2 with cdl in action and it was stunning. As close as you can get to lockers without lockers. Then on the other hand the traction controll is tied to the abs system and we all know how reliable the abs is on discos. For me though....the next truck I buy will be a d2 and I will add the cdl. Of course my d1 is mostly a trail truck anyway so the d2 will be my wife's and she probably won't let me take it offroad much. She still fails to see the beauty in my "Body by Granite" exterior modifications. |
Kyle
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 01:21 pm: |
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Al , its hard on a portion of the system that you have little knowledge of. I know you have little knowledge cause you think its just as good. Driveline parts were breaking on D1s long before the DII came out. Alot of them were from people hitting the brake while spinning to get another wheel to pick up the slack. The DII does this by design and its hard on the system.
Greg states that the DII is comparable to the D1 in "hard core wheeling". Greg ? Where do you get this data from ? The ETC system needs wheel spin to work , and not just a little. That wil put you ina world of hurt in quite a few "Hard core" situations. Maybe you are talking about the MAR and the dirt road Safari ? But then we are getting back to the blind fold and the brick again arent we ?
There is a simple test to see which is best. I offered this to Justin and I dont really recall what he had to say. Park both a stock D1 and a stock DII at the foot of a slippery slope. Have each climb the slope until it spins a tire (Any wheel spin) which do you think will make it further before it spins ? That is simple enough isnt it ? And since we (Should) already know that wheel spin breaks parts I think that pretty much answers all the questions...
Kyle |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 01:33 pm: |
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Kyle, I've never said one is best. Go back and read. I said each has it's advantages. You've only seen the difference between D1's and D2's. We've moved to the debate of ETC vs. CDL. I think the people who can best give opinions on the two are people like Greg, myself and others who have a D2 with CDL since we can try the same obstacle with CDL or with ETC and with both if we choose. This way there is only one variable changed and differences can't be attributed to a D1 vs. a D2 or to driver experience.
Again... I feel I would rather have CDL over ETC for the wheeling I do. Greg has a different opinion but he may do different wheeling than I. But given the option to have both ETC and CDL is a no brainer for me and to most people who have D2's and both CDL and ETC. I even hope to try to see if I can get a SLABS unit to work in a D90 someday. That's how much I like the ETC WITH CDL.
I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest here just clarifying my opinion and I know yours differs and that's okay.
Back to the issue of being hard on the system, You're saying that ABS is harder on the "system" than regular brakes? What system and what part is this. And don't say I just don't know. That's why I'm asking. In my experience I've not seen any more failures on my own ABS vehicles vs. non-ABS vehicles even though there is more to break with ABS. Remember ETC is just ABS more or less. And even if ABS or ETC fails it's hardly one of those failures that will keep you from driving home under your own power. Unless it damages the actuall brakes or brake system (not ABS/ETC). |
Kyle
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 01:37 pm: |
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Its not a pissing contest at all as I dont benefit either way. Just stating how it is , thats all...
Kyle |
Greg Davis (Gregdavis)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 01:38 pm: |
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Well, contrary to what you think, I've been four wheeling in places other than MAR and Uwharrie, but that's not the point. My statements come from seeing vehicles in action.
Your example of the hill climb doesn't count because the ETC needs a wheel to spin to activate. On the CDL vehicle, when yo get wheel spin, it's over. That wheel will continue to spin if left to itself. With ETC, that wheel will be gradually braked until the power is transferred to the other wheel(s). Is it hard on the vehicle? Hell yes. Fourwheeling in general is hard. Everything is give and take in this hobby.
From what I've seen, flogging a CDL only vehicle to get up a rocky, slippery slope was just as, if not harder, on the vehicle than the ETC vehicle that followed it. Both vehicles were working hard, but in my observation, the ETC was more efficient at getting power to the wheels that had traction.
Now, am I saying that ETC is superior to CDL in all situations? Absolutely not. But I've seen it be an asset in more instances than I've seen it as a liability. Of course, my 'wheeling is VERY limited to yours. I just don't think that a blanket statement that one is superior over the other has merit. It all depends on where you're trying to drive.
I personally prefer a DII over a DI. ETC is one of the reasons, but not the only reason. My opinion. Take it for what it's worth. |
Greg Davis (Gregdavis)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 01:46 pm: |
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You know, I just realized that were are arguing (excuse me, discussing) about this for no reason. Because of the year DII he's looking at, it's a no-brainer. He's got the CDL stub, so he should get the DII. That way he can have ETC, or just CDL by pulling his ABS fuse, or both. Doesn't have that flexibility in the DI.  |
Kyle
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 01:48 pm: |
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"Your example of the hill climb doesn't count because the ETC needs a wheel to spin to activate"
So one of the majior down sides to ETC "doesnt count"???? lol, ok , I see the logic now....
And again , where have ya "Seen it" ?? I have seen quite a few myself.....
Dirt road safaris and the posuer fast might make the ETC look freaking outstanding. But when the going gets slow and technical. The ETC is not your best buddy....And if it was , then why is everyone going to CDL ? As I said earlier , I can remember when the DII boys said CDL was no where near as good as ETC , Hell , one even said it was "Better then lockers" lol... Now the tides turn..
Kyle |
Kyle
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 01:50 pm: |
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Hmm , dont have removeable door handles in the D1 either,,,,cant seem to find a use for either.....
Kyle |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 01:57 pm: |
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Quote:Everything is give and take in this hobby.
hehe, yes, you give cash, someone takes cash. LOL
seriously though, this "give and take" is starting to sound like some lame excuse for all the shitty systems. |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 01:59 pm: |
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"That way he can have ETC, or just CDL by pulling his ABS fuse, or both. Doesn't have that flexibility in the DI."
Or just start the vehicle with the CDL on and the ETC gets turned off.
Greg you've hit the nail on the head. |
Chu Son
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 01:59 pm: |
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Well, just because they're adding CDL doesn't mean they're disabling ETC. I'm sure if the CDL-only vehicle trucks had a fuse to enable ETC, people would rush out to do that too. If it's there, I'll take it. If it's that bad, I'll take it off.
chu |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 02:01 pm: |
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ETC IMO is a reason to get the 1999 D2 but there are other reasons for the D1 too. It depends on what's important to you as the driver of the vehicle. As I said I would love the axles of the D1. |
Milan
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 02:02 pm: |
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Carter,
I'm not sure what they did to interior on D2 vs D1 but the fact is I'm more cramped in D2. My legs hit in more places and the steering wheel rubs my thighs. I do like the taller windshield. I'm 6'4".
As to the CDL vs. ETC debate, I too would take CDL over ETC even knowing that in some cases the ETC may be better. I prefer simple mechanical gadgets. Plus I like lockers or LSDs enough to put them in, so the ETC may become a moot point at that time. Now a D2 with a CDL, dual TTs and ETC would do better than a D1 with a CDL, dual TTs and a monkey working the brake pedal.
I guess what I'm saying is that ETC (when it works) is better than monkey working the brake pedal. Anything else is a comparison of apples to oranges. |
Kyle
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 02:04 pm: |
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Well , then hows this ? If Gregs theory holds true...... My truck and his truck have the same diffs. That being said , he should be better off then me if he leaves his CDL open and I lock mine up ? Well thats damn sure easy enough to find out isnt it ?
Kyle |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 02:10 pm: |
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Quote:Anything else is a comparison of apples to oranges.
kyle, you are comparing apples to oranges there. LOL |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 02:11 pm: |
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actually, i like apples over oranges. |
Greg Davis (Gregdavis)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 02:11 pm: |
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Uhm, Kyle, are you wanting names of where I saw it? It was on rocky, slippery trails with no formal name. Just a trail. Again, I'm not saying CDL is bad. Hell, I have it on mine. But I still kept ETC as well. Together, they're awesome. I have since added lockers, because I wanted even more. So now I have ETC, CDL, and lockers. Sure, ETC hardly ever comes on, but it sure makes that TT automatic. It's a shame that you have to brake to engage yours!
"Park both a stock D1 and a stock DII at the foot of a slippery slope. Have each climb the slope until it spins a tire (Any wheel spin) which do you think will make it further before it spins?"
So that's where the test ends? What about which vehicle will go farther up the hill? What does a spinning tire prove? With the CDL, that tire now has all the power of that axle. With ETC, the power will now be transferred to the other tires that have better traction.
Take those same two vehicles and park them so that both right (or left) side tires are on ice. Which one will drive off of the ice? You can always come up with examples of where the other is at a disadvantage. It's just I have seen fewer disadvantages with the ETC.
We're beating ourselves silly here. I've seen what I've seen. Both have thier place. If given a choice, I'd take ETC over CDL. Because of the year DII I have, I can have it all. With the DI, he'll limit himself to his options. It's all about options. Don't limit yourself if you have the chance to have options!
Are you saying he should get the DI? That was the original question. If so, why? |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 02:14 pm: |
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well, i think manel should get some apples. |
Youknowwho
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 02:16 pm: |
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Greg, sell that new shiatt and get something old. |
Kyle
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 02:22 pm: |
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Well , you should be all over the unlocked v.s locked deal....
The funny thing about ETC is that the less you know about cars and wheeling in general , the better it works for you.....
Now lets see , dimensionally the DII gets its ass kicked by the D1 , dont argue , its true , sometimes you dont have that extra inch to give up , I guarantee one thing though. Mother nature will correct it fast!!
The freaking car door handles ???? That shit is getting ripped off sticking out there so Sally doesnt break a nail openeing the door...
Axles ? Do I really need to explain this ? I dont think so. The DII suffers and is making a move towards Soccerdom.
Electronics ? Another one of those things that just answers itself.. The more complex , the more prone to failure , the more complex and prone to failure it is the more expensive it is for the lay person to have repaired and the more locked in that person is as far as repair personel...
For an off road vehicle the Di is definately handicapped in some areas. The DII is even more so. Thats just the way it is and the direction LR chose to go. Its quite obvious even amongst the model years of Series 1 trucks (Distributor v.s DIS) ... Ask Findlay how damn inconvenient it is to have a small issue in a pretty remote place ? And his truck is much more field serviceable then a 2...
Kyle |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 02:27 pm: |
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the simple point is tapdancing between brake pedal and gas pedal (or double-stepping) to keep wheelspin in check and trick the firmly planted wheels to "take up the slack" is bad for the poor little disco. We try not to do this, but we all still do it sometimes (yet we grimace & shudder when we do). With the ETC'd D2, it's all part of the grand computerized design, with no human control.
but damn the D2's ride nice, smooth, & quiet compared to my crusty whale. |
Kyle\
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 02:27 pm: |
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"Uhm, Kyle, are you wanting names of where I saw it? It was on rocky, slippery trails with no formal name."
Was it this trail Greg ????
http://www.discoweb.org/gregdavis/fork3.jpg
(Ya know I couldnt resist)
Kyle |
Kyle
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 02:28 pm: |
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Definately Blue , for a road car it wins hands down..... Oh , and for picking up wet dogs...
kyle |
Rick Lindgren (Slacker)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 02:29 pm: |
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DI vs DII, huh. For the on-road argument we chose the DII because we have a family and it corrected two of the things I hated most about the DI. I couldn't stand the inward facing rear seats (they now face forward with headrests, etc), and I'm 6' tall so I couldn't see out the damn front window on the DI (They shaved several inches off the inside headliner and you can see more out of a DII. The DII also gave more legroom to the kids and I stopped having little sneakers jammed into my kidneys.
For the off-road arguments: CDL is great, ETC is great, but CDL + ETC will take you further than either alone. For a person who isn't building a dedicated trail rig and has no plans to put in front/rear lockers, the DII with CDL will get you back out when you occasionally go farther than you intended. You don't have to relocate the steering damper on a DII, already done. I've been told that the trailing arms/links are beefier on a DII. I don't know for sure, I haven't compared them. Several things were "improved" on the DII but you sacrifice a lot of the ability to "field strip" the truck for repairs. You can't replace a broken axle, etc as easily on a DII. So you have to ask yourself, "Would I have the tools or knowledge to do these field repairs at all?" If the answer is no, get a DII. A DI that can't be repaired due to lack of knowledge/tools is just as stuck as a DII that can't be easily field repaired.
All of this is purely my opinion, colored by my personal circumstances and is backed up with no scientific facts whatsoever. Your mileage may vary.
Rick |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 02:31 pm: |
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the smartest guys on this board are the ones with a knobbied D1 & a D2 with 18" chrome.... |
Kyle
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 02:31 pm: |
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Well , Rick , not exactly true. Break and axle on a DII that has not CDL and you are fucked. You can do the same on a D1 and not know how to fix it and still get out...
Kyle |
Greg Davis (Gregdavis)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 02:31 pm: |
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LOL 
And John, leave me alone!
Good points about the DI vs DII. I think that's what dear old Manel was after, good solid input, not personal preference. Of course, the DII is still better.  |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 02:34 pm: |
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blue, i disagree, the smartest guys on this board are the ones that dont' show their stupidity.
LOL |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 02:34 pm: |
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same goes for breakin a shaft, Kyle |
Kyle
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 02:45 pm: |
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Greg my personal preference is based on solid facts and being under the hoods of all makes for quite some time. What other way should it be done ?
Kyle
Let me know when ya wanna prove that ETC thing and run unlocked v.s me locked up... |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 02:49 pm: |
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kyle you need an old '88 range rover, even les shit to fail on you and no PITA ABS to casue you to almost wreck into me
rd |
Kyle
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 02:52 pm: |
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lol , Rob , I think my Disco was being pretty smart that day....
Kyle |
Rick Lindgren (Slacker)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 02:53 pm: |
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Kyle and Blue,
Your right, but I'm not talking about a DII without CDL. I'm talking about CDL + ETC. Personally, if I planned to use it in situations that lead to axle and shaft breakage, rather than going to COSTCO and loading up on bulk goods, I would never buy one with a castrated transfer case.
Kyle,
You just finished running some of the hardest trails around and you did them consecutively. I didn't read anything about broken axles or shafts. Granted, a lot of that is driver skill not just truck. My point being that you can go to some pretty adventurous stuff (enough to satisfy most people) and you won't break an axle or shaft if you drive smart and aren't afraid to turn around and say, "I'm not trying that today." If you break something, CDL is a life saver but MOST people without CDL aren't driving in situations that mangle axles and shafts.
IMHO, FWIW, yada yada yada.
Rick |
Greg Davis (Gregdavis)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 02:56 pm: |
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Kyle, I missed your earlier post about running locked vs my ETC. It's not the same. The mechanical lockers in your axles defeat the advantage that I feel the ETC has over CDL. In your comparison, you would definitely have the upper hand.
Besides, you only wheel in small packs, so the chances of us actually getting to 'wheel together are pretty slim. I do look forward to the day, though
You know what's really funny? Just last week I was arguing with a guy on the Yahoo forum. He stated that CDL was "not necessary", and I tried to explain to him how important it really is. But he made a general statement that it served no purpose. I was trying to explain to him the limits of ETC, and how the combo of both is pretty remarkable. |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 02:59 pm: |
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ahh, yes, lord of the on line video games.  |
Greg Davis (Gregdavis)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 03:03 pm: |
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Yep, that was him. He unsub'd that same day. Oh well! |
Greg Davis (Gregdavis)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 03:04 pm: |
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Ho, you driving up to Bill's Tires anytime soon? He's holding my XL's for me. |
Rick Lindgren (Slacker)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 03:06 pm: |
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NO!! Please don't drag the Lord_Mike_01 thing over here. I'm still recovering from the Disco2owners debacle. |
Kyle
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 03:09 pm: |
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Well its unfair either way Greg .... But we have the same diffs and minus the T case and ETC we have the same baseline. You even got some sexy flexy forklift action shots that I dont have , thats gotta count for something..
Kyle |
Greg Davis (Gregdavis)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 03:12 pm: |
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Hey, I can hook you up if you want some flexy fork lift shots. See, doesn't this feel good when we can all be friends?
 |
Kyle
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 03:14 pm: |
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no no , my little stocker dont have those long legs.... Its,,,,its,,,,substandard.... 
Kyle |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 05:01 pm: |
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Interesting that a few weeks ago there was a question about the D1 vs. the RRC and everyone chose the RRC for a better trail vehicle even though the RRC has the same size ass as the D2 but on the D2 the ass is too big. And as for the issue about LSD's on a D1 or D2 well... I say LSD's are weak and you need a real fully locking diff. LSD's are for people who can't commit.
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James F. Thompson Jaime (Blueboy)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 05:12 pm: |
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Actually LSDs are for those who want go Disco trippin'
Jaime |
michel
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 07:29 pm: |
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How did I get dragged into this? All I can say is if you go offroad (alot of just a bit) you want a machine that will get you in and out period. I don't care how it does it, but if ANYTHING goes wrong, it better not be cripling.
The D1 has many things to help offroad, from long travel gas pedal to full floating axels to CDL to tighter dimension it's all offroad. The logic of "Today I'm not going to try that" dosent work out there, your in, you need out. You will not turn around halfway in a trail, especialy in a group, you stick togheter and especially alone the worst obstacle can be right at the end of the trail...go back 3 day's or go forward 50'. Been there and had to build a bridge...wasent pretty.
Small issues are real anoying, but not crippling, the D1's ability to limp home is hard to beat.
Michel |
Rick Lindgren (Slacker)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 09:54 pm: |
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Michel, I'm sorry but it's BS that "Today I'm not going to try that" doesn't work "out there". Are you telling me that your truck takes you on uncontrolled excursions and then expects you to find your way home? You are the driver, you decide where you are going, and you make the decision about whether you or your truck are up for a situation. That has nothing to do with the type of truck you have. If you can't make smart decisions no truck, no matter how good, is going to save your butt.
Not turning around because your in a group is dumb. Once again, the driver makes that decision and pushing yourself where you or your truck aren't prepared to go just makes you a danger to yourself and others.
I've been on multi-day trips and improvised my way out of things too. In those situations it was the right choice. I've also been out with just my wife and kids in a single truck and come within miles of our destination only to turn back because the route ahead held to much risk of a roll over. It wasn't worth the risk and we spent several more days happily camping.
I've limped home with jeeps, blazers, discos, mountain bikes and my own boots. Frequently with improvisation, bubble gum, and bailing wire. My point is it's usually the driver's skills/decisions that get you into trouble and the same thing that usually get you out of trouble. If you can make good decisions the DII will serve you as well as the DI.
I'm sure that some will disagree.
Rick |
Sean Hanagan (Seanh)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 10:43 pm: |
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And the winner is????? After seeing all you crazy people go at it I'm sure Manel has now bought an Escape with the optional bra. Man you guys are entertaining!!! |
Milan
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 11:57 pm: |
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What? Ho is still arguing about them apples and oranges? :D |
Curtis N (Curtis)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 11:59 pm: |
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The D1 vs. D2 debate is really overdone and quite a bore. It is all very subjective and depends on the drivers desires. I have a d2 and enjoy it. However, I would probably buy a d1 if I had to do it all over again. This is not because the d1 is necessarily "better" in any tangible way, but because it would be cheaper to buy (more money for mods), and I would feel less guilty about trail damage when it occurs.
I think most people who like Disco's would like either...especially if they already owned it
Curtis |
Chu Son
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 01:32 am: |
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Curtis,
disco...schmisco. Admit it man! You're a d90 guy at heart. Just give in to your d90 envy!!!
chu |
Kyle
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 08:51 am: |
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Um , not so Curtis.... I named a few reasons above...... And I named them simply because its the way it is....
Kyle |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 11:31 am: |
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milan, nothing really to argue. apples win hands down.
ahh, D90? or disco? how's that? |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 12:07 pm: |
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I have a 96 D1, and I'll keep it until it's deader than dead, then I'll drag it out into the desert and shoot it. But I want a D2 too. And a D90. And an old Porsche 911. And I could really go for a frozen vanilla frappucino right about now.
P.S. I don't like apples. |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 12:18 pm: |
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blue, the only apples that i don't like are the the ones that run Mac OS. other than that, all apples are GOOD! |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 12:32 pm: |
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I'm with you Ho but OS X is looking nice.
What happened to the Linux Penguin artwork? |
michel
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 02:54 pm: |
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Curtis, it's quite a bore unless you are faced with that decision and are trying to gather information so you can make a good choice.
Michel |
Milan
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 10:35 pm: |
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Ho,
You know I'm kidding most of the time, don't ya? I was just yanking your chain a bit. I was actually going to put "I prefer apples" after my reply, so I actually agree with you. Even though I probably prefer oranges to apples when it comes to fruit. Hehehe. |
Curtis N (Curtis)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 11:39 pm: |
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Chu: Damn stright. If I just didn't have this little family thing going I would be d90 all the way. Gotta love the Disco though.
Kyle...err you bring up some points I agree with and others that I consider highly negiligible. I do have CDL and ETC and the combo is better than either alone. Throw a TT into the mix and...well...you know the answer. I have also seen CDL only d1's whipped by ETC only D2's on many occasions and can give you witnesses that you know. I wheel with locked up d1s and have not yet seen them do anything better or easier than my setup. IMHO - the D2 with TT/CDL/ETC is almost as good as but much more friendly than CDL/DL, much better than the d1 variants of CDL/TT, and not as risky as CDL/hisssclick. Again though - none of this is really tangible in the way I am thinking.
Your argument about the axles is valid. However, it is not something I am concerned about. CDL will get me out and I will not be carrying halfshafts with me so trail replacement is not an option anyways.
My point was simply that when we come to offroad prowess there are better vehicles in LR and other comanies lineup than d1 or d2. The Discos are made to fit a need and they do it well. I also said that I would likely get a d1 if I had to do it over again. Some of the reasons are just what you mention above, but the differences are still minor in overall impact.
;)
Curtis |
Rick Lindgren (Slacker)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 02:41 pm: |
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Screw it. Let's all buy a Jeep. They have better commercials and no one ever asks, "How much did you pay for your LandCruiser?"
Rick |
michel
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 05:50 pm: |
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Go for it Rick.
Michel |
disgruntled
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 05:55 pm: |
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or Nice Isuzu....ughhhh |
Rick Lindgren (Slacker)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 06:55 pm: |
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Thanks, Michel. Hey, sorry for the tone on that previous reply. I still agree with the point that I was making but I reread that and man I sounded bitchy. Bad day and Dweb was just the "dog" that got kicked when I got home. Once again, sorry.
Maybe I can get one of those little Liberty's or something. It would probably fit on the roof rack, in case I break an axle and need to get home.
Rick |
Peter Matusov (Pmatusov)
| | Posted on Friday, October 04, 2002 - 10:58 pm: |
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Screw it. Let's all buy a Jeep.
and the winner is....
peter |
Rick Lindgren (Slacker)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 12:33 am: |
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Smokin'. Those are probably the stealthiest sliders I've ever seen. I won't make nasty comments on the stuffability of the wheels. Or more to the point, can they be unstuffed?
Rick |
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