| Author |
Message |
    
ROBERT
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 05:01 pm: | 
|
WHAT IS THE CROSS PIECE BY THE FRONT DRIVE SHAFT AND IS IT OK TO RUN WITHOUT IT? |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 05:24 pm: |
|
it's there for rigidity purposes |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 05:48 pm: |
|
why would you want to take it off (unless you're working on the transmission) |
Leslie N. Bright (Leslie)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 11:03 pm: |
|
-L |
Blake Luse (Muddyrover)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 01, 2002 - 11:31 pm: |
|
LESLIE HOW DO YOU DO THAT
lol |
gp (Garrett)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 07:49 am: |
|
leslie has the ability to use the force. i have seen it. |
robert
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 08:44 am: |
|
oh, thats what that button was for, i thought it locked in little caps fo a toy gun. lol sorry about that. i am putting on a 3" lift and it looks like it may scrub. anybody know if it will? |
Dave_Lucas (Dave_Lucas)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 08:53 am: |
|
Robert,
DII?
If so there are several out there that have done the 3" Rovertym and everyone that I know has needed to remove the crossmember. if you send the cross memeber to John @ rovertym he will relocate it for you.
I do not know anyone that had John relocate the cross member, they have all just placed in in the garage.
When I questioned John about the need for the crossmember he said he did not think it is needed unless you remove the Motor, transmission and transfer case as they act a cross members.
You may want to talk to Greg Davis he has had his removed for some time. Also ask Neil D on the DII yahoo groups, he has had his off for about a year now. |
robert
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 10:06 am: |
|
thanks all!! |
Greg Davis (Gregdavis)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 10:49 am: |
|
Yep, had mine off for over a year now. Other than some small cracks in my frame and body, no problems! Just kidding!!!
Seriously though, it bolts to the frame right where the motor and t/ranny mount, so I couldn't see any harm in removing it. No ill effects for over a year. Only option is to push it back, which causes it to sit even lower as the frame begins to drop down behind the stock location. |
Justin Day (Polytropoi61)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 10:52 am: |
|
When my Ujoint blew out it was this cross member that took most of the explosion (yippe) I took it off and have been running about a year without it. I asked the techs at LR flatiron (in boulder co) and he said that it wasn't a big issue and that it shouldn't affect the vehicle as much as one might think. I've been looking to just weld it back on but haven't got to it yet.
no cracks in the frame yet!
justin |
John Lee
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 11:05 am: |
|
Land Rover obviously put the cross member there for a reason, so I don't think it's wise to remove it. Also, it is not necessary to remove the member or have it bent/tweaked/welded/butchered to make clearance for the front driveshaft. It is a simple matter to fit the Old Man Emu fit kit (part no. FK20). These are 5mm spacers that go between the cross member and the chassis and there are six of them in the kit (together with the longer mounting bolts). You can attach up to three spacers per side and lower your cross member anywhere from 5mm to 15mm per side. |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 11:19 am: |
|
so is it safe to say that it's ok to drive without the cross member for about a year without any ill effect? at least based on a few people's experience? how about more than a year?
and really, the cross member is there for structural integrity purposes? or is it just a dead weight that LR installed. so that losers like us can debate about this shit to death? |
Dave_Lucas (Dave_Lucas)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 11:21 am: |
|
John,
Will the spacers give enough clearence for the front drive shaft if you remove the front sway bar and have the OME lift? |
John Lee
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 11:24 am: |
|
Yes, that is what the FK20 was designed for. |
Dave_Lucas (Dave_Lucas)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 11:34 am: |
|
John,
Cool, sounds like they put together a good kit. |
Dave_Lucas (Dave_Lucas)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 11:43 am: |
|
Ho,
I personally have mine off right now (about a month) but I plan on putting it back on because I believe that it is there for a reason. I realized about half way through installing my 3� Rovertym lift that the drive shaft would sit on the cross member DOH!
Just need to get off my lazy butt and do something about it : ) |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 11:52 am: |
|
dave, sure it's there for a reason, but do people want to hear that?
so let's assume it's there for a reason. and the cross member being as stiff as it is, i suppose it's for structural purposes.
if so, how would motor, transmission and transfer case act as cross members if they are mounted on rubber bushings?
hmmm... maybe i am missing something, please someone educate me here. |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 11:57 am: |
|
Only a guess but the cross memeber could be there for crash worthiness too. But I think Ho is right. The motor and transmission will make a poor cross member. Now it would be cool if someone made a skid that bolted to the same holes as the cross memeber that covered the bottom much like one made for the Jeep (XJ?) that would offer support and protection. |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 12:00 pm: |
|
Didn't East Coast Rovers or $G or some other vendor recreate the crossmember for a lifted rig (maybe a D90)? They made it even stiffer, and of a different shape. I remember seeing a picture of a custom crossmember somewhere in my millions of hours of web surfing. |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 12:02 pm: |
|
now Al there is on the right track.... |
Dave_Lucas (Dave_Lucas)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 12:05 pm: |
|
Sorry Ho,
I wish I could educate you, however I am ignorant to the structural properties of the DII frame and I am not an automotive engineer.
I was simply stating what John at Rovertym told me when I questioned him about it (as noted in my post). |
muskyman
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 12:10 pm: |
|
al thats a good idea
the old cj5's all had a combination cross member skid shield that really took a beating and added huge amounts of strength to other wize piss poor weak frame rails
the guys that took them off for one reason or another and built skinny little crossmembers ended up with a paralelagram for a frame before to long.
rover frames are really beef so you may get away with it, but you may also put one side of your front bumber hard into a rock face some day and ened up with a truck that needs to be stripped to the frame to correct everthing from fan clearence to body mounts. when frames get wacked the fix can be a real bitch |
John Lee
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 12:15 pm: |
|
"When I questioned John about the need for the crossmember he said he did not think it is needed unless you remove the Motor, transmission and transfer case as they act a cross members."
Very interesting. I wonder what Land Rover's engineers were thinking when they put cross members on the D1, D2, Rangie, D90, D110, D130, etc. Don't all of those vehicles already have engines, gearboxes, and transfer cases fitted? |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 12:16 pm: |
|
Well, the room full of guys with slide rules and pocket protectors told the wrenchers to bolt it on there for a reason. John over at RTE offers to adjust it for you for a reason. Can you run without it? Sure. I had a Cherokee with doors that wouldn't close when it was cross-axled. Did the Cherokee run OK? Sure. It was fine truck. Was it as good as the Disco? Nope.
My D1 cross member does triple duty as a skid pipe and oil drop catcher. In fact, my cross member is the most well-oiled piece of equipment on my truck.
 |
Eric N (Grnrvr)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 12:17 pm: |
|
Blue it was SG that made a new cross member to use with their 3 link system for the front suspension. You know. What everyone calls the Lawn chair. |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 12:21 pm: |
|
hey, speaking of the "ramp a jeep and try and open the door" shit.
my buddys range rover suffers from this, you think he might have a cracked frame or something?
i know my disco was solid this way... but hant tryed it on my ranger yet.
rd |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 12:27 pm: |
|
Eric, I think it's the $G suspension that folds, not the LR frame. |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 02, 2002 - 12:27 pm: |
|
no Rob, it's probably just rusted through, or he removed his cross member |
Rob Vreeland (Cruzths)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 01:45 am: |
|
Just a small warning for those who want to remove the cross member. I removed mine once before when I installed new suspension on a brand new DII. It came off and went back on with ease. Several weeks after getting my DII back from the shop after tipping it over on a failed hill climb I had to remove the cross member again to retrofit a new transfer case with CDL. The cross member was difficult to remove and even more difficult to reinstall. The mounting holes no longer lined up and required a couple braces and clamps to finally get it back on. If the cross member was not on the truck during the accident, I don't even want to think what the frame would have looked like afterwards.
Remove at your own risk. |
Dingleberry-90
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 07:40 am: |
|
It is absolutely amazing to me that somebody would go blow $30k+ on a DII, which is arguably as close to a grocery getter as LR has ever made, and start yanking major structural components in order to fit it with tires and suspension components it was NEVER designed for. Robs post sums it up nicely. If you kids want to go play in the woods with big tires and ying-yang suspension, get an old 90 and have at it. Meanwhile, I'' sit back and wait for posts on DII frame explosions.... |
Axel Haakonsen (Axel)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 07:45 am: |
|
Yes, it is obviously there for rigidity purposes. It may be ok to run without it on the road for a while, but the day you expose your frame to some extreme forces, you are asking for trouble. Think about it for a second. The crossmember is just like the top floors of the WTC. The floors acted as a crossmember or brace for the outer frame. And we all know what happened when the floors finally collapsed, i.e. the crossmember was removed. That is of course an extreme example, but the physics behind it applies to your Rover frame, too.
And, if the crossmember was not needed, do you think it would be there? Of course it wouldn't be. If it could safely be removed, don't you think Rover would have jumped on the opportunity to save $X.XX per unit produced by not installing it in the first place? |
BlingBlingDiscos
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 08:08 am: |
|
I removed my lug nuts and have replaced them w/ blobs of silicone on the individual lugs. It gives my wheels considerable lateral flex and saves several pound of un-needed weight. Anyone know of any problems with this set up? |
Leslie N. Bright (Leslie)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 08:15 am: |
|
Dingleberry,
I think the Freelander has the DII beat in that department......
-L |
Dingle
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 08:34 am: |
|
L-
DII wins based on its extra Wal-Mart carrying capacity. You can fit way more diapers and/or soccer balls. And cross members... : )
Dingle-Dangle |
Brian Dickens (Bri)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 09:02 am: |
|
Tough crowd this morning. |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 09:25 am: |
|
Yep, so it seems Land Rover is dead since the D2 is no longer the best option for us here in the US. |
Greg Bright (Gregd2)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 09:57 am: |
|
That's funny! Somebody going by the handle "Dingleberry" is spouting off about the D2. I have the utmost respect for the opinion of a Dingelberry. If you'll excuse me, I'm going to go wipe now. |
Rob Davison (Pokerob)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 09:58 am: |
|
yes, get an old d-90, they are dime a dozen. |
RVR OVR (Tom)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 10:04 am: |
|
Holy crap. Yeah, just remove the cross-member. What the hell? Add a second gas tank and just drag it behind you as well. Scary, scary shit.
My motor mount broke my last trip out. I wonder what else would have broke or had extra stress on it without the cross member.
For once, I totally agree with John Lee, call him up and order the OME kit, dammit. |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 10:18 am: |
|
IMO, the OME kit works but is not the best solution since it drops the X-Member lower. I would like to see something that replaces it with a V-Shaped X-Member and/or integrates a skid. The last thing I need is a lower cross member to get hung up on. But given the option of no cross memeber or a lower one I will take the lower one myself. |
John Lee
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 11:19 am: |
|
Yes Al. The FK20 costs, I think, $20 and lowers your cross member a huge 5mm to 15mm (depending on how many spacers you fit). That lost 5mm to 15mm of clearance is huge. Especially so when your front axle is sitting much lower than the cross member.
The FK20 solution is probably too simple. So it probably would be better to to a bespoke V-shaped cross member with an integrated skid plate on it. After all, MAR is coming. |
Justin Day (Polytropoi61)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 11:38 am: |
|
this is exactly what I get when I read the post a bit too fast and then chime in. I agree that removing the big ass crossmember might cause problems in the future. I haven't removed this crossmember just the skinny one that bolts to the transmission. I wish everyone else the best of luck on the subject and just for the record before when I had discussed the LR tech from flatirons saying it was not a big deal to remove it he was discussing the smaller bolt on attachment from the transmission forward. He was concerned that I wasn't talking about the discussed crossmember and he implied that it was obviously important.
just trying to better understand the thread..sorry bout that.
justin |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 11:40 am: |
|
Yes... and Duct tape is also a very cheap and simple solution to keep the little hub caps on those alloy wheels in place when on the trail. At $20 dollars a pop I wouldn't want to leave a trail on them behind me. |
Ross Thoma (Rossthoma)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 12:02 pm: |
|
Or worse yet leave them behind me on a trail!! LOL |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 12:04 pm: |
|
If I chrome plate my crossmember, will the oil drops mar the finish? |
Ho Chung (Ho)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 12:23 pm: |
|
depends on wether you are on the western grip or the stranger. |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 12:27 pm: |
|
man, that western grip is tricky...best left to the pros...also better be sure to trim your thumbnails first or you could compromise sac integrity |
Justin Day (Polytropoi61)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 12:36 pm: |
|
I don't think I have ever seen the term "sac integrity" actually typed out...well...well...well. quite the thursday. |
Kyle
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 12:49 pm: |
|
Well , I havnt looked at the thing in depth. But is it an addition to the one the D1s have ? Or is it in place of?
Kyle |
Dave_Lucas (Dave_Lucas)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 12:53 pm: |
|
Geeeez,
What a cluster f*ck! |
ken
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 01:05 pm: |
|
Wouldn't this also be just about the same part that all the rice rockets pay hundreds of dollars for to put on their hondas. They put those cross members on their shock towers to stiffin the roll of the car. the people that want to remove it are the same ones that think they can break better w/out ABS. I would just leave well enough alone. |
Kyle
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 01:07 pm: |
|
No Ken , its not anything near the same. Its simply to hinder side impact intrusion into the passengers compartment. If the frame buckled there from a side impact then the passengers compartment would follow... Ya dig ?
Kyle |
Axel Haakonsen (Axel)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 01:07 pm: |
|
That's not true, I am keeping my cross member, but I am not a big ABS fan.... |
Greg Davis (Gregdavis)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 01:50 pm: |
|
Problem is, the 15mm isn't enough for mine to clear. When I finally get off my ass and make something that will work, I'll put it back on. 'Til then, I'll take my chances. Besides, I only wheel at Uwharrie and MAR anyway, so what the hell can that hurt? |
John Lee
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 02:12 pm: |
|
15mm isn't enough? LOL. What on earth did you do to that poor D2 of yours?
You could always get two FK20's and use four to six spacers per side. Either that or get the special V-shaped cross member with integral skid and integrated fire extinguisher and turbo assist. |
Greg Davis (Gregdavis)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 02:24 pm: |
|
"or get the special V-shaped cross member with integral skid and integrated fire extinguisher and turbo assist"
See, now THAT's what I'm after. Just haven't figured out how to bring it all together. But when I do, you guys will be the first to know! |
robert
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 04:45 pm: |
|
i didnt mean do agitate anyone. now w/ the 3"lift what do i do about the driveshaft hitting the bar? i seems that a 15mm lowering of it doesn't compensate for the 3" if i do the math right. any ideas(serious ones, i asked cause i didn't know not cause i wanted a bunch of dumb remarks) |
Aaron Owens (Aaronowens)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 05:24 pm: |
|
robert,
I had mine modified by John at Rovertym. No contacting since and that is with his 3" lift and no sway bar. It has welded plates that move it back a few inches and down a bit. I'll be at MAR if you want to check it out.
Aaron |
Blue (Bluegill)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 07:10 pm: |
|
thar ya go! |
Kyle
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 09:15 pm: |
|
Ya know , as this thread continues I am reminded of the other thread. In both the Series 1 Discos out here I have never removed the cross member.... Just one more thing against the DII I guess,,,
Kyle |
Dave_Lucas (Dave_Lucas)
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 10:20 pm: |
|
Ah shit here we go again |
muskyman
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 10:32 pm: |
|
robert,
I dont have a D2 so this is a hunch
depending on where the crossmember is you may not have to move it much.
and just because you are moving one side does not then cause you to have to move the other the same amount.
the drive flanges on the transfercase never move regardless of lift the driven shafts on the pinions do. so the the driveshafts the move in an arc.
therfore the crossmember if it is located next to the drive flange would need to move less far to clear.
so I guess what I am saying is. John of EE posted a solution to your problem that has been set up to do just what you want it costs $20. try it and you come back and be the expert here thats what this place is all about |
jerry colorado springs Co
| | Posted on Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 10:48 pm: |
|
CUSTOM just spend the money and get a custom cross member made. They are made for jeeps (Skyjacker.com) makes them for the new wrangler and a few other companies as well I am having one custom made for my CJ-7 $350 and there is quite a bit more material and fabrication involved than the tube under my disco. I am sure that companies that specialize in landrovers could easily make one. I havent asked but I bet if I went to (rockwear.com) here in co springs that they could easily make one for me. Ill call them on monday and ask what one would cost . |
Al Oliveira (Offroaddisco)
| | Posted on Saturday, October 05, 2002 - 11:27 pm: |
|
Jerry, Problem with Rockware and the D2 is that they need the vehicle to make something. For anyone outside CO this may not be an option. |
jerry
| | Posted on Sunday, October 06, 2002 - 10:37 am: |
|
ill see what i can do. Ill ask how hard it would be once they have made one to reproduce several. |
Closed: New threads not accepted on this page