| Author |
Message |
    
Marc
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 08:51 am: | 
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I am considering taking out the seals in my front axle and getting the flanges from GBR and going to gear oil all the way through. The main reason is that I need to replace my hub seals anyway, so while in there I would like to go to as simple and reliable a system as possible. Also, I would like to be able to easily check/change my lube (in the bearings and swivel ball).
What seals would I need to remove? Which would I keep?
Anyone have any insight or experience? |
Leslie N. Bright (Leslie)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 09:04 am: |
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Is this what you need?
http://www.d-90.com/~daveg/Swivels/main.html
-L |
Bill Bettridge (Billb)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 09:13 am: |
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Marc - the stub axle has a bearing and an oil seal (bearing first, then seal) - you'll need to remove the bearing with a slide hammer if you don't want to destroy it and then the oil seal pulls out easily with same slide hammer or just punch it out with a screwdriver.
Bill |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 10:04 am: |
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Marc:
This has been discussed ad nauseum over on the pirate BBS.
Now, for a real world experience: I recently did a brake job on a '94 Disco (not your run of the mill brake job, rotors and calipers too!). When I pulled the drive flange on the right side, I was greeted with swivel ball oil flowing from the bearing cavity. Clearly, the seal had failed and allowed diff oil and swivel ball grease to intermingle. The owner had no idea this was happening and had noticed no adverse effects (BTW-he owns many rovers and is intimately acquainted with them). From this experience, I can see no reason why one would not want to make this modification, or in some case, merely not replace the stub axle oil seal.
I will probably make this modification sometime next spring if and when I replace my CV joints.
Again, FWIW, those who make the swap to "one ton" CV joints (Salisburys), they remove the bearing and replace it with a bronze or brass sleeve and completely do away with the seal.
Paul |
Marc
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 11:54 am: |
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Paul,
would you recommend removing the stub axle seal only, or also the seal between the diff/axle and the swivel ball (allowing the gear oil to flow freely from outer bearing to outer bearing)?
Or is this just too much trouble? |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 12:32 pm: |
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Marc:
I hadn't given that any thought up until now! Move into quick thinking mode...
As it is much more common to have a failure in the swivel ball, rather than in the differential, I would think that one might wish to keep any debris that might be generated by a failing CV joint away from the differential, thus, there might be some support for not allowing them to be common. There may be an elevated risk of water ingress to the swivel through the much larger surface area of the swivel ball, compared to ingress of the axle housing itself. Also, on ABS equipped vehicles, there is another means of water ingress. Lastly, if one were to find themselves in a serious side angle situation, allof your oil would flow to one end and if you had a leak, you'd almost certainly find it with all of your oil pressing up against it.
These are just my quick thoughts I came up with at the keyboard. From my initial thoughts, I would see no major advantage, but a few disadvantages.
Anybody else have any thoughts?
Paul |
Bill Bettridge (Billb)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 12:47 pm: |
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Paul - curious - what is the need/advantage to replacing the bearing with a bronze bush? Not asking for a smartass reason - just wanna know. Also is it done custom or with a LR part?
Bill |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 02:29 pm: |
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Apparently, when one goes to the Salisbury CV joint, it is necessary. Bill Davis has discussed the need and the process to some degree of depth on the Pirates Board. I'll try to go back and see what he said.
I don't see the need for the Salisbury CV joints on my truck and as a result, have not investigated further,however, the idea of having the same oil bathing everything up there is very attractive to me.
Again, I haven't wasted a wheel bearing yet either, but the idea is still attractive to me.
My •••••• and oil cooler lines are leaking so badly that this evening, I will be forced to cut the old flex line off to replace with my LOLA+ stuff. On the way back from camp yesterday, I kept finding puddles beneath the front of the truck.
Paul |
Bill Bettridge (Billb)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 03:46 pm: |
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Good luck on the trans cooler lines ! - I was curious as to how my hydraulic hose/tube fitting setup would work - so fas so good after about 1000 miles and a good thrashing at MAR.
Don't worry about digging around on POR for that info - I can go take a look myself. Don't really need/want to do it, but was curious.
Bill |
EricV (Bender2033)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 04:54 pm: |
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What do you mean by "the same oil"? I have heavy weight gear oil in both my swivels and the diff. Is this incorrect?
Thanks
96 Disco 1 |
EricV (Bender2033)
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 04:57 pm: |
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Never mind, this only applies to post Dec 96 vehicles. I'm ok. Really.  |
Shane
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 03:03 am: |
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"- what is the need/advantage to replacing the bearing with a bronze bush? "
The 110 CV's are a different diameter at the bearing surface thus the reason for the change. |
hendrik
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 04:03 am: |
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Hi Shane, Paul,
I´m afraid this has been discussed till ...
I thought all the 110" had the needle roller bearing for the CV. The RangeRoversClassics from start (until about early/mid 90ies) and all the 101"FC had bronze bush (and early Discos I).
You´re talking about the Salisbury-CV as put into the 101" and the very scarce 110"frontSalisburyAxleType. I think the bearing diameter must be the same as in the RangeClassic (as the part number[101 RRC] is the same) but I´ve been told the diameter of the CV is bigger so it doesn´t fit into the swivel housing.
?What is correct ? |
JB
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 11:08 am: |
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I originally read about removing the inner seals on an Aussie rover board..or maybe John Brabyn's. Seems they consider it added insurance to keep the hubs and bearings from getting dried due to crazy heat and abuse on the long flat dirt/sand roads they run. |
Shane
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 01:17 pm: |
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Some 110's had 23 spline CV's
some have 32 spline.
Some RR had 23 spline(some/all with removable stub?)
some 32.
Coil sprung salisbury front axles have the 23 spline CV's.
101 salisbury's have ~40% larger CV's and it is not possible to fit these in a coiler swivel ball.
32 spline CV's use the needle bearings.
23 spline use bronze bush(from those I've seen)
I've heard that the earlier coiler swivel balls are slightly larger or maybe just have more clearance on the inside; but have not experienced this myself. |
Paul T. Schram (Paulschram)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 01:32 pm: |
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It is common to machine the opening of the swivel housing to allow for installation of the larger CV joints-at least as common as those doing the conversion!
Paul |
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