Time to switch v8->200tdi?

AndrewClarke · Mar 22, 2017

Hi folks. Looks like I might have a cracked head in my 1995 3.9v8 I brought back to life a few months ago. I have a 200tdi/5spd combo sitting in another Discovery. So one option would be to just junk the 3.9 and put in the 200tdi.

How many hours should I realistically budget to pull the 3.9/auto and migrate the 200tdi/5spd from one Discovery to another? I'd like to move the manual transmission over as well and I assume it's the best way to do it, but I could leave the transmissions in situ and just move over the engine. I think the ZF auto in my 3.9v8 is in good shape.

I just wonder if this is a job I could do in one weekend of hard effort, or what it would really take. I pulled the 200tdi out of my 110 close to a decade ago with the help of some friends, or rather they did it and I helped. I replaced my bulkhead in my 110 a few years ago, but that's the extent of the sort of work I've done.

Thanks,
- Andrew.

Mongo · Mar 22, 2017

so you want to go slower...engines can be swapped in a day, or 2, then it's the 2 months to get the fuel system, cooling, electrical...

AndrewClarke · Mar 22, 2017

Well I was thinking that even if I COULD do it in a weekend, I wouldn't. I'd likely do a push to get both engines out, then look at what I need to order that I didn't think about before I started the job, then finish it another weekend. If possible.

The thing is that the 200tdi is already in a truck that's been swapped from a V8. So presumably it's "just" about moving everything from that truck over to the new one. Problem is I don't know what "everything" is. I'm just not sure how far back I need to go (wiring harness, dashboard, etc.) and in turn how much time that takes.

Leadvagas · Mar 22, 2017

Ok, as a guy who has participated in over ten 200/300tdi swaps, here is my two cents. First off if you want to stick with the auto trans you need a different high pressure fuel pump. It has been a few years, but to do a GOOD job with all the stuff sitting on the floor. It used to take us about 40 hrs start to finish. That would yeild a product with all the additional gauges, new timing belt, working factory gauges, working AC etc. As a guy who has a 300tdi Disco, they are really cool, but they are quirky and the REQUIRE lots of maintenance and TLC. They are not a mini Cummins, or a dayly driver.

AndrewClarke · Mar 22, 2017

Thanks. If you say 40, I have to put that number at probably twice that for me. You're right that it's worth doing the timing belt and probably other work while it's out.

I have a 200tdi 110 so I'm familiar with the concept of tdi Land Rover ownership. I also have a 300tdi auto Discovery sitting in my yard. That one has a broken timing belt (I obtained it this way) and whatever else that fiasco has caused. It would be great to get both of these trucks running, but I'm trying to simplify my life (also selling the 110) and this seems to be going in the opposite direction. I just WANT to do the swap even though I probably shouldn't make the time for it.

Tugela · Mar 22, 2017

If you sell the D110 you'll make enough money to pay a professional to do your Disco TDI conversion for you and have enough left over to drive it around the world for a year.

Case in point.

AndrewClarke · Mar 22, 2017

I'm in Canada and so is my truck, so that leaves an American buyer dealing with importing a Defender and we all know how much fun that's become. When I'm ready to sell though I'll post it on here in case anyone's interested.

Toran · Apr 1, 2017

Mongo said:
so you want to go slower...engines can be swapped in a day, or 2, then it's the 2 months to get the fuel system, cooling, electrical...

In what sense is the 200tdi slower than the V8?

DiscoPhoto · Apr 1, 2017

Toran said:
In what sense is the 200tdi slower than the V8?

Mostly every sense

Toran · Apr 1, 2017

wow...even with the turbo

DiscoPhoto · Apr 1, 2017

Rover V8 in a D1 - 185hp - 230lb-ft tq
200Tdi - 111hp - 195lb-ft

Sooo...yeah, even with the turbo.

I didn't do my 300tdi conversion for power, just reliability, fuel econ, and simplicity. All of which I've enjoyed successfully for 40k miles since the conversion.

Toran · Apr 1, 2017

Hmmm... I see.
Yet another set of pros and cons.

Thanks

Leadvagas · Apr 2, 2017

There is some room to improve the diesel's HP and torque. But none of it is cheap, and it's all pretty niche market stuff. The VW guys get unreal numbers out of 1.9L power plants, well over 200HP. But you have got to spend the bucks and deal with the finicky breaks a lot syndrome. I love my 300tdi, they're unique, they're pretty simple, they're even cheap to run, but it's not a mini Cummins you don't get to jam your foot in it and rocket down the highway.

Tugela · Apr 2, 2017

DiscoPhoto said:
Rover V8 in a D1 - 185hp - 230lb-ft tq
200Tdi - 111hp - 195lb-ft

True, BUT:

peak torque is at 1,800 rpm with the TDI and 2,600 rpm with the V8, so while you may not actually be going fast, you feel like you're going fast in a TDI because the peak of the curve is at lower revs. It's a funny sensation.

Toran · Apr 2, 2017

Okay now this is starting to make more sense when you reference the peak of the curve. This is my 1st D1 Rover(previously D2), my daily driver for the last 20yrs+ has been a 911. So when I heard the term "turbo" mentioned aka 200tdi/300tdi it gave thought.Ya sure I knew they aint gonna be faster than a 911, and yet I thought the 200tdi/300tdi would burn rubber compared to its V8 counterpart. I've spent nearly 30yrs on German car forums and have to recalibrate my thinking as these Rovers simply are different beast!

Thanks for adding to the technical aspect!

Mongo · Apr 2, 2017

The only time you'll see a LR with 200tdi "burning rubber" is when it's on the side of the road on fire...

If you HP, drop a LS in it...

Toran · Apr 2, 2017

Yep totally...
I didn’t get the Rover to break any speed limits but wow I thought it would spit out a bit more. While on the other hand the 911 is not the vehicle for going to HomeDepot unless your simply picking up light bulbs!

No complaints worth mentioning...

Tugela · Apr 2, 2017

It doesn't have much more HP, but the TD5 engine has better performance over the 200/300 TDI in some respects. I drove one for a few weeks and noticed that it's easier to sustain highway speeds and it accelerates better when already moving. A TD5 110 with passengers and several hundred pounds of gear was a breeze to drive on the freeway compared to the 200/300 TDI. A TD5 tradeoff is that peak torque is at higher revs so you don't have the same kind of slow-speed control. I like the TD5 on the road but it requires a different driving technique to get the most out of it off road. Plus it has electronics and some complexities that the 200/300 don't, but time has shown for the most part it's more reliable and durable than had been anticipated...as far as Rover diesels go.

Toran · Apr 2, 2017

I see...
I got rid of the D2 because I wanted the simplicity of the D1 with less OEM electric gadgets. I knew the tradeoffs very well on paper more so than in the real world of driving it for a year. I got a brick on wheels that can slowly crawl up and over the hills to grandma's house.

Mongo · Apr 2, 2017

Why waste time with a deisle? Drop a LS in it and be done...HP, Torque, COMMON PARTS...

Time to switch v8->200tdi?

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