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  #1  
Old 09-12-2011, 01:51 AM
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I was looking through the Trips forum here on DWeb tonight and it bummed me out a little. Whatever happened to DWeb people taking epic trips out west? Whatever happened to east coast guys loading up their trucks and hauling ass across the country for a week in Southern Utah? Whatever happened to the trip reports, stories of unbelievable trail fixes, the amazing photos?

Even the guys out west have been quiet. Is it, as Jack suggested, the takeover of the Moron Hordes that ruined Land Rovers and big trips for everyone? Is it the shitty economy and fuel prices? Did everyone just get too old and settled down?

The Events/Trails/Trips section is not much more than some threads on the east coast rallies and occasional weekend wheeling. Even the LRNR, which used to attract a good share of DWeb people, seems to have fallen out of favor with the DWeb crowd. I remember going to the 2006 Rally in Moab with Steve Rupp, Marc O. and Rob Davison and I remember how many other Dwebbers we ran into down there. Compare this to the 2010 Rally where I met only a handful of DWeb people; it was a lot of ExPo-type people with RTTs and most everybody was staying at hotels.

It's obvious that DWeb has changed but is it permanent? For you old timers, will you ever get out and wheel again?
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Old 09-12-2011, 06:15 AM
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I've got a project in the works that when done I plan taking on a road trip out west. I already told my wife I was going to do it. Of course she just rolled her eyes, and i'm not sure if she did it thinking I would never finish my project or she was telling me I couldn't go. Either way i'm going to finish it and I will be taking an epic road trip. Maybe I can get some east coast people to go with me. While relatively new to Dweb I have noticed the change and many people that were active posters are now gone. Maybe it will come back to life.
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Old 09-12-2011, 02:00 PM
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I have several trip plans cooking.

Right now I'm just too broke to do anything more than our local club get-togethers.
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Old 09-12-2011, 02:02 PM
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Cash for clunkers did DWEB in.
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Old 09-12-2011, 02:18 PM
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Work has gotten in the way. I was supposed to be in the help for heroes rally for the last two years. 11day rally across Europe. Deployments came unfortunately at the last minute both times. So no epic trips for me. My trip to Scotland and the highlands for a week I just didn't post anything on. I guess fail on my part.
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Old 09-12-2011, 02:27 PM
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When ever I go to post a trip report, Dweb is down.
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Old 09-12-2011, 02:45 PM
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Define "Moron Hordes"? Define "Ex-Po Type people"? Define "old time" Dwebbers ( God's gift to the World obviously ) versus any other Rover type of person? Myself as a quite new poster on Dweb who doesn't post very often probably fits your definition of a Moron Horder or whatever. Do I wheel? Constantly and often. Lots of different places for years? Constantly and often in Colorado and Utah and occasionally Arizona. Do I or would I post it here? No. Do I post a few of my travels elsewhere? Yes. Do I wheel a lot more with Jeepers than Rovers? 99% yes. Enjoy the much DWEB hated Moab Jeep Safari even with a Rover in a sea of Jeeps? Yes, more so than the couple of LRNR I have attended. Why do I even check this website out you ask? Old, bored, stupid, and like to be amazed at the epic nastiness inherent here towards everything and anything.
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Old 09-12-2011, 03:02 PM
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Moron Hordes: an average discowebber today.
ExPo Type people: Guy with a Land Rover that attaches as many things to the exterior of the vehicle as possible, only to drive to a campground. The crowning glory of the ExPo type is the roof top tent. This shows to the rest of the world that he means business
Old time Dwebber: guy who would meet other Dwebbers in this forum, plan a trip somewhere, and drive thousands of miles in order to go wheeling.
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Old 09-12-2011, 03:12 PM
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whats wrong with my east coast rallys? if i had unlimited funds id be strapping fuel cans on and driving to chile...for now rausch creek and the mcdonalds dollar menu will have to do.
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Old 09-12-2011, 03:16 PM
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Does tossing my NorthFace tent on the roof-rack with a sheet of found nearby plywood under it in an emergency late night event just to escape the massive rains that washed all the oil on the ground from the Rover leaks toward the bottom of my tent count as a RTTent? :-) I couldnt find much higher ground that was not a mud puddle close by and the oil slick was threatening my nice clean mountaineering tent I've had for years.

The fact I was "car camping" was lame enough in my book. Ha ha.
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  #11  
Old 09-12-2011, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roverrocks
Enjoy the much DWEB hated Moab Jeep Safari even with a Rover in a sea of Jeeps? Yes, more so than the couple of LRNR I have attended.
It's not a Dweb thing. It's more about Treading Lightly and being respectful. The Jeep Safari is anything but Treading Lightly and being respectful. Bill Burke summed it up nicely.

Quote:
I am displeased, disgusted, angry and afraid!! Why? I just returned from the Moab area after two weeks ‘wheeling around and spending time with new and old friends and my family. I spent some time on the hard as well as the easy routes and what I saw (witnessed actually is the term) incited me to come up with the adjectives I started this diatribe with and believe me I toned the adjectives down!

I have been guiding/training in and around Moab for about 18 years and have attended as many Easter Jeep Safari events. I have attended many national and international events and have been lucky to ‘wheel in some of the most pristine world class areas as well as some garbage dumps! What I saw this last week really sickened me and makes me wonder why I continue to be aligned with this sport and the people that purport to really care where and how they drive on designated 4-wheel drive routes in public access areas. I am not talking about the OHV parks or the Rock Crawling events on private lands, I am expressing this disdain about the “guests” that are invited to ‘wheel in my back yard where I work, live and play. They basically left the toilet full of effluence, no toilet paper, the sink full of dirty dishes and soiled my finest linen – that is how I see it. Here is how I actually saw it!

Displeased! Following “rock crawling” type built rigs along Pritchett Canyon, these overly built rigs couldn’t make the rock pile so they drove into the wash and the illegal by-pass made by other weak-kneed wannabees that can build a rig but not drive on a difficult obstacle. HEY! You made the choice and selected the VDL hard core route, deal with the obstacles. Take a strap or use the winch, but stay true to the route. If you can’t do the original route don’t drive up Pritchett! Better yet stay home on the porch ‘cause you may have a “big dog” rig but you are certainly not up to the “big dog” task!

Disgusted! Driving along the route called Metal Masher, my son and I observed where there used to be an obstacle that was (still is) quite challenging -- a large slick rock face steep and tall. It was obviously not enough for the “rock rig wannabees” since they had to move over foot by foot to assault the entire ledge for the next 25 yards sideways. The big moment of disgust was when I saw that the Juniper trees (maybe as old as 125 years) that happened to be in the way were crushed and broken in pure indolence and with complete disregard to the natural habitat of the revered old flora. Just wasted the two trees ‘cause they couldn’t hurt the tube frame and already dented body panels. Ammunition for the SUWA folks!

Angry! To put it mildly! I was with clients along the routes of Gold Bar Rim, Bull and Little canyons and we stopped repeatedly to pick up trash along the miles of routes we ran that day. We picked up 53 beer cans, 14 plastic drink bottles, cardboard beer cases, a cooler top, and 2 tee-shirts, among other items. We buried 4 piles of human effluence and exposed toilet paper and tried to smooth over 5 different impact areas where vehicles had driven over prime Cryptobiotic forests leaving tire prints and destruction for really no reason at all other than to “rip it up!” This was only on one of the many days that followed. There is no excuse for that type of wanton destruction, especially since there is so much information in the public arena about the fragile Cryptobiotic soil: DON’T BUST THE CRUST! It is everywhere, just like the plentiful information about HYDRATE OR DIE! Do these people drain the oil on their living room rugs? Do these people even care about ethics?

Afraid! Yes, I am afraid that these people have reinforced the already bad image the general public has about 4-wheelers. So now I have to hang my head down in shame when I visit the local business people in Moab because of the stigma attached to what a few (not as few as one would think) bad apples have done to the desert roads. It just gives groups like SUWA, Sierra Club, the BLM and USFS more ammunition for road closure and to establish more Wilderness Study areas. Because, if those that use it don’t care enough and continue to abuse it, the privilege to recreate on primitive roads in pristine back-country regions will be easier to close and certainly easier to legislate Fee areas and restrictive access. We might as well as start building private OHV parks like the East Coast regions have to do. Or do we restrict the buggy types to only OHV parks and enforce lift, bumper height and tire diameter laws. Or do we close “it” all and just stand against the fence and sigh away the hours?

So, yes, I am afraid! Because these uncaring individuals that actually make up a large group are threatening my livelihood, recreation and environment. We should all be afraid what these people represent. I am sure SUWA loves it.

All the insightful diatribes from the vociferous ‘wheelers about boycotting this establishment or that business amounts to NOTHING and falls on deaf ears when ones backyard is so scurrilously vandalized by what Edward Abbey once coined as “SLOBIVIUS AMERICANUS” are doing to our sport and our land.

Everyone that operates a motorized vehicle should be required to read “Desert Solitaire” by Abbey, in order to get a license. There needs to be a resurgence of a new ethic for the way ‘wheelers should treat this fragile land we are loving to death and closure.

If you build a “rock buggy” type rig so you can attack and conquer, then by all means use it to that end in the area or park made for that. But when ‘wheeling on established 4wd routes, stay on the road and enjoy the journey not the thrill of conquering big rocks off the route and smashing trees and rolling over Cryptobiotic soil. Back country travel and 4-wheeling is about the journey, not fighting nature with machine. If you are one of those that needs to fight nature then go SWIM WITH THE SHARKS! I am sure they will have fun with your body. And we that share an environmental ethic will not even remotely miss. Can you say: “Gene pool selection” and Darwin awards?

Displeased because these “slobivius americanus” exist and recreate with impunity.

Disgusted these people can actually hold a driver’s license and call themselves 4-wheelers.

Angry there are so many of these “bad apples” that the numbers are getting larger and those that care about ethics seem to be getting smaller.

Afraid that the actions of these uncaring, indolent, boorish imbeciles will drive the general public and land managing agencies to start really pushing for road closure, vehicle build restrictions and more government interference.

We should all be afraid. We should all care about environmental ethics and appropriate behavior when operating motorized vehicles on public access lands especially in fragile remote regions.

We need to WAKE UP and start working on the tarnished image that seems to be getting more tarnished as we drive along.
In other words, you enjoyed the Jeep Safari because you're a Moron Horde.

Last edited by D Chapman; 09-12-2011 at 03:27 PM.
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  #12  
Old 09-12-2011, 03:28 PM
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I don't need an epic trip I'm already out west.
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Old 09-12-2011, 03:29 PM
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People are flakey as hell. And this shitty economy has made it even worse. When I couldn't get anybody local to go to the Rally last year I said Fuck It and went myself. Met a bunch of people, made a lot of friends. I take trips, but they're my trips. I'll let people know about them but I like to set the itinerary. Most trips have too many chiefs and not enough Indians.
I drove 8hrs to the Wilds with 3 kids under 7 in the back seat. In Oct I'm driving 10hrs to Kentucky for 4 days. I like to do shit but finding people to join in is a pain in the balls.
I am planning a two weeks "epic" trip through Colorado and Utah if time allows, in 2012.
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Old 09-12-2011, 03:33 PM
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I'm leaving Saturday for the Sangre de Cristo mountains, near Taos NM. Fishing, trailing, and spending time with the family for a week. I take plenty of pics, but I don't know how to upload on Dweb.
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Old 09-12-2011, 03:45 PM
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Chris, here's the difference.

The "old DWebbers" you're talking about bought their vehicles brand new, for various reasons - some charmed by appearance, some - with knowledge about mechanical differences - and went head-first into modifying their trucks for what you might call epic trips. They were few and far between.

By now, the same trucks became cheap as dirt, and achieved junkyard status. A Classic or a Disco became cheaper than an XJ Cherokee of the same vintage. These trucks are beat to shit and unloved and unmaintained by previous owners - so the broke crowd who bought them becomes even more so, and can barely afford a head gasket job, let alone a cross-country trip. Another off-shoot of this trend is buying and bolting silly crap to the trucks, like megawatt running lights, instead of investing in drivetrain upgrades. The ExPo crowd thinks itself above the whiskey tango by bolting up more expensive but largely useless (or unused) accessories.

A disclaimer: I don't know if the second kind is who Jack Quinlan called "Moron hordes;" I don't distance myself from this kind of Rover owners - probably I am just as broke as any, but I don't fret over my debt as much as I used to.
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Old 09-12-2011, 03:47 PM
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I do more camping than wheeling, and yeah, I have an RTT. It was a gift, so what? I do go on trips, but don't usually seek out other Rovers to go with. I have friends, and they drive all sorts of vehicles. I've gone on a few runs with all Rover people, some were cool and some were dicks. I didn't think having nothing but Rovers on the Run added to my enjoyment, however.
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Old 09-12-2011, 03:50 PM
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I think Chris meant long trips, not weekend camping. Think Hole In The Rock driven by a group of people from NY and MD to CA, with some flying in from overseas.
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Old 09-12-2011, 04:03 PM
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Gee, maybe the whole Global Financial Crisis thing had something to do with it.
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Old 09-12-2011, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quick128
I've got a project in the works that when done I plan taking on a road trip out west. I already told my wife I was going to do it. Of course she just rolled her eyes, and i'm not sure if she did it thinking I would never finish my project or she was telling me I couldn't go. Either way i'm going to finish it and I will be taking an epic road trip. Maybe I can get some east coast people to go with me. While relatively new to Dweb I have noticed the change and many people that were active posters are now gone. Maybe it will come back to life.
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Old 09-12-2011, 04:21 PM
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Gee, maybe the whole Global Financial Crisis thing had something to do with it.
You stole that excuse from ROAV.
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Old 09-12-2011, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D Chapman
You stole that excuse from ROAV.
They stole it from ME!
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Dominic Perodeau and John Monaghan are thieves.

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Old 09-12-2011, 04:48 PM
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As I've found with most everything in life, there is no single and easily grasped answer. Partly, I put it down to the old crowd moving along to different stages in life and cost of living / traveling. In younger days I had the freedom and disposable income ... I used to drive up to the Blue Ridge area every year, drove up to MI and WI to backpack around Manistee, Ottawa NF and massive forests for a week-long getaway. Shit, I remember calling a buddy at U of I on a Wednesday night to shoot the shit, he tells me his house is throwing a big party that weekend so I called in sick to the job I didn't care about and drove 1,200 miles (one way) for some T&A and booze made in a trash can. That whim turned into a ten day road trip. Now I have the family, the busy ass job I actually like, wife, kids, house and a never ending slew of bills to pay out constantly.

By-the-way, who really gives a shit if someone bolts a "RTT" on their "expo-rig"? Maybe it gets used all the time and maybe it just looks cool to that guy. We have someone in our club with a D2 that looks like it crashed into a 4-wheel parts showroom and made it out the other side with EVERYTHING attached. Maybe the guy does beat off to a JC Whitney catalog... who gives a shit? it is his pleasure and not my loss. I only care what others do when that action directly effects me; like trail damage, trash, destruction of flora in a pointless manner.

Just like Dan (via Burke) said, we are literally losing ground (due) to the moron horde. I have been avoiding wheeling or travelling in groups lately since I can't control the stupid actions of others. I care more now about the people I am associated with and I just don't want the hassle of being associated with trail destruction. Plus as others said, when there are too many chiefs on a trip I end up going South. I'd love to meet up with other dwebbers on the road and on the trails... so long as the trip isn't EPIC; back in the old school I liked when stuff was radical and awesome.

maybe this is just a quiet period?
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Old 09-12-2011, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p m
I think Chris meant long trips, not weekend camping. Think Hole In The Rock driven by a group of people from NY and MD to CA, with some flying in from overseas.
Peter, I think you and Mike Rupp have summed it up succinctly. I understand why the Moron Hordes will not be doing a Hole in the Rock trip anytime soon; those trucks would never make it, even if they could come up with the cash to get down there. Most of their trucks seem more set up for the local mud hole than a five-day, 150-miles-from-anywhere trip over rough roads in questionable weather.

I want to do another big trip and I want to get some old DWebbers out for it. I don't dare post up a free-for-all because most of the old folks wouldn't come and most of the new folks wouldn't have trucks or the cash to make it happen. What I'm trying to figure out (and thus, the point of this thread) is why the old timers don't do these trips anymore and what it would take to motivate three or four trucks to get out again for a real adventure.
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Old 09-12-2011, 04:56 PM
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I can only speak for myself.

I finally have a business that is somewhat self-perpetuating. If there is work, I'm too busy trying to get it done. When there isn't work, I don't have the $ to do much of anything but push a broom int he shop and try to drum up work.

When I was going on long-distance trips, it was either on credit or it was done when I had a real job, paid vacation and made enough to do such things.

Just like water-fowling, apparently, I prefer to work than hunt.

OTOH, I got really tired of having a truck that couldn't keep up and as a result, I built a truck that can. The down side is that it is not the kind of truck that anyone with half a brain would want to drive on the highway and sure as Hell wouldn't want to drive it several days, wheel it and then drive back.

Of course, I got a truck built just in time to realize that if I'm lucky, I might get to go wheeling once or twice a year and at that, it's a challenge. the wife doesn't want to go to any place too 'industrial" and any place that isn't too "industrial" is five to ten hours away, eats fuel and the logistics of getting Gary's pick-up from Indianapolis makes it unwieldy at best.
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Old 09-12-2011, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p m
By now, the same trucks became cheap as dirt, and achieved junkyard status. A Classic or a Disco became cheaper than an XJ Cherokee of the same vintage. These trucks are beat to shit and unloved and unmaintained by previous owners - so the broke crowd who bought them becomes even more so, and can barely afford a head gasket job, let alone a cross-country trip. Another off-shoot of this trend is buying and bolting silly crap to the trucks, like megawatt running lights, instead of investing in drivetrain upgrades. The ExPo crowd thinks itself above the whiskey tango by bolting up more expensive but largely useless (or unused) accessories.
That pretty much sums it up right there.
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