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  #26  
Old 12-12-2018, 11:58 AM
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I can change a starter lying on my back in my gravel driveway in about 30 minutes. Its not rocket science.
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Originally Posted by proper4wd View Post
walt, at the end of the day you're a miserable customer and i can only imagine what your service providers would say about you given the chance. your parking in front of a fire hydrant rounds out the image. entitled.
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No matter how hard you stir it you won't make chocolate ice cream out of a bucket of shit
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  #27  
Old 12-12-2018, 12:05 PM
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me too. but that has nothing to do with this thread.
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  #28  
Old 12-12-2018, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proper4wd View Post
me too. but that has nothing to do with this thread.
It doesn't?

Someone is trying to charge $600+ for something a layman can do for $125 in 30 min.
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  #29  
Old 12-12-2018, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discostew View Post
The easy answer is fix it yourself. I'm sure the guy doesn't want to be involved in this 18 year old piece of shit anyway. Nobody does.
Most likely, you are correct.

I just don't feel the reason behind giving a customer one and only option. If you are dead-set on charging one hour of diagnostic fee, offer it up front. If you feel like you can swing the job in an hour, say you can waive or halve the diagnostic fee. If you don't want the job, say you're busy. If you want the job but you feel there's a risk involved, tell the customer about possible extra charges.
After all, isn't it the type of conversation you'd have at a dentist's office?

The conversation Walt had with the shop owner is ridiculous.
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  #30  
Old 12-12-2018, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by pinkytoe69 View Post
It doesn't?

Someone is trying to charge $600+ for something a layman can do for $125 in 30 min.
Where's the profit in that? Vinnie didn't build a business doing it for shade-tree rates and settling for low budget customers.
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  #31  
Old 12-12-2018, 04:22 PM
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Jersey prices, dang.
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  #32  
Old 12-12-2018, 04:22 PM
discostew discostew is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kade View Post
yeah Walt, you shoulda just paid it no questions asked. Then left a good Christmas tip for his inconvenience.

Can someone explain the book hours to me? Seems like they normally quote the book and it doesn?t normally take as long as the book says- or in this case the book says too little so they just make up a number?
In a dealership warranty time is decided by the manufacturer. The general rule for customer pay work is multiply warranty time by 1.5. Then like you said, it can go higher. Sometimes warranty time is so low that you need to do something other than the standard 1.5 of warranty time.
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  #33  
Old 12-12-2018, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkytoe69 View Post
It doesn't?

Someone is trying to charge $600+ for something a layman can do for $125 in 30 min.
I'm always amazed people want to drive this stuff when they can't fix it themselves. I think 30 min is a stretch.
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  #34  
Old 12-12-2018, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by DiscoPhoto View Post
Where's the profit in that? Vinnie didn't build a business doing it for shade-tree rates and settling for low budget customers.
I think Walt's point is below. Where's the market for Indy shops if they charge dealer prices? People specifically go to Indy shops expecting lower prices.
He's basically getting AllMakes parts at Genuine prices!
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Originally Posted by WaltNYC View Post
If indy shops can't compete, they will be dead. That is the message.
I took my truck to an Indy shop. ONCE. I only had my '98 D1 for about 6 months when I couldn't shift out of park. I was on a boat launch and didn't know anything about Land Rovers. Took it to my local Indy shop and I think he charged me about $325 to replace it. That was the last time I ever went there, or any place else that wasn't exhaust work.
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Originally Posted by discostew View Post
No matter how hard you stir it you won't make chocolate ice cream out of a bucket of shit
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  #35  
Old 12-12-2018, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discostew View Post
I'm always amazed people want to drive this stuff when they can't fix it themselves. I think 30 min is a stretch.
If the bolts come loose with no issues, rust is another story altogether. In a tight spot as well.
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  #36  
Old 12-12-2018, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ukoffroad View Post
If the bolts come loose with no issues, rust is another story altogether. In a tight spot as well.
I've never seen rust on the starter bolts. Usually they're caked with oil and the socket cap screw heads are packed with oil and dirt. No rust, though. Doing it up on a lift? Piece of cake. Use a dental pick and compressed air to clean up the heads. Tap in your hex bit, and zip them out with an impact. Even if the bolts shear off you can slide the starter off, grab what's left of the stud, and turn it out.
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'98 D1 Trail Rig. Lockers and whatnot. Retired
'96 D1 Daily Driver. OME lift, 235/85/16 Toyo AT's.
'95 D1 Project Truck.
'94 D1 Too good to pass up. OME lift, 265/75/16 BFG AT's, Detroit/TruTrac, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by discostew View Post
No matter how hard you stir it you won't make chocolate ice cream out of a bucket of shit
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  #37  
Old 12-12-2018, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishEH View Post
I think Walt's point is below. Where's the market for Indy shops if they charge dealer prices? People specifically go to Indy shops expecting lower prices.
He's basically getting AllMakes parts at Genuine prices!

.
I read his point, but it's incorrect in this situation. He's charging those prices and remaining successful. Win win for him, and he now has one less customer that will complain about pricing to him
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  #38  
Old 12-12-2018, 06:26 PM
proper4wd proper4wd is offline
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the guy isn't charging dealer rates. i dont know where that assumption is coming from. he is, in fact, providing a cheaper alternative.
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  #39  
Old 12-12-2018, 08:45 PM
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I don't feel a need to comment on how this transaction was handled by either party, but I think it's worth noting some broader context. In the longer arc of Land Rover ownership, unexpected repairs will occasionally crop up like this. Once in a while you find yourself in a situation where circumstances prevent you from doing the inexpensive fix in your driveway and you have to shell out the bucks for someone else to do it. It's all the more frustrating when it's a job you know you could do but life gets in the way. Every Land Rover owner should anticipate this eventuality - it's part of the ownership experience.
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  #40  
Old 12-12-2018, 08:55 PM
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I don't think anyone disputes that, Nick, and it applies not just to Land Rover but to pretty much anything, including dog getting sick on a cross-country trip.

But it is worth re-reading Walt's conversation with the shop owner.
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  #41  
Old 12-13-2018, 01:00 AM
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What's up with 2 starters in three years?


Thought mine went out and had it towed home just to discover the bolt needed a tighten.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JY7ISTaymU0
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  #42  
Old 12-13-2018, 08:08 AM
discostew discostew is online now
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I work in a dealer 50 hours a week and have a shop near my house. At that shop I mostly work on my own stuff, but people find me and ask me to do jobs. When I do take a job the rate I charge is half what they charge at the dealership, $75 a book hour. If I have to put my money out for parts I charge 20% for that.

I have a hard time working on this old shit at work because of parts availability, and parts dept people who really struggle with the old stuff. I finally won a battle and was able to refuse one and it left. Thank God. It's not cause I don't like the trucks, it's just the wrong arena for that old stuff. I have used parts but can't sell them to people because the policy at the dealer won't allow it. Probably for good reason.

Anyone on this board who fixes cars for a living will understand a saying I have for when this type of job pisses backwards on you. " I'm sorry I took the money"

Another thing I will tell you with certainty. I can tell you how the whole transaction is going to go after the first 5 words out of the customers mouth. So read that opening post again, and put yourself in that shop owners place. If it was me towing it out would have been the only option. Cause if you bring it to me and I quote you a reasonable price, and you question that price we're done.
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  #43  
Old 12-13-2018, 11:09 AM
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I have enjoyed the dialogue on this thread. I think a lot of this has to do with that in life, a lot of the times, it’s not what you say but how you say it. I have to give people bad news all the time but I use some finess with it.

I would guess if vinnie used any finess, same price and all just explained his situation and pricing, Walt may would of posted a nice review and told us to go check him out.
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  #44  
Old 12-13-2018, 12:28 PM
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Kade, I'm afraid not. Vinnie was as nice as could be. Our conversation was never once discourteous. Each of us knew what we were doing and accepted the other's decisions and ramifications thereof quite politely.

This is about economics and competition. There are plenty of "yeah, but..." excuses. None of them fit the circumstances of this particular situation. If Vinnie has a bunch of fat cat customers who wouldn't know any better, more power to him. That does not sound like a great business model for an independent shop.

My intention here is to warn those who value their dollars a bit more and maybe prevent a low value but much-loved truck from being punted into the crusher because the local shop prices their services beyond sensible levels. As one well-known Rover mechanic said to me once, "I help people because I want to keep D1's on the road and away from the crusher." I expect that is the main point of this forum. Perhaps not.

I too have enjoyed the dialogue and do appreciate the perspectives offered.
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  #45  
Old 12-13-2018, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kade;1085695'
I would guess if vinnie used any finess, same price and all just explained his situation and pricing, Walt may would of posted a nice review and told us to go check him out.
Right.

Well if you want the work to be done right, that is what it costs

This is the line where it's like, eat a dick homeboy.

He's not repairing particle accelerators in there.
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  #46  
Old 12-13-2018, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WaltNYC View Post
As one well-known Rover mechanic said to me once, "I help people because I want to keep D1's on the road and away from the crusher." I expect that is the main point of this forum. Perhaps not.

ah, so you're looking for charity. got it.
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  #47  
Old 12-13-2018, 01:33 PM
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ah, so you're looking for charity. got it.
There's a pretty big chasm between looking for charity and simply not wanting to be bent over by someone.
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  #48  
Old 12-13-2018, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proper4wd View Post
ah, so you're looking for charity. got it.
Dude, what is wrong with you?

Do you know WHY he said that to me? He offered to talk over a situation with me for which I was grateful to tap into his experience and you know what the very first thing I said to him was? I told him that the parts involved were nickle and dime stuff and that in this situation I would not be able to 'pay him back' via a parts order this specific time. I wanted him to understand that up front because I respect the wisdom and time people offer which sometimes does not have an immediate pay back. In fact I was conducting myself in precisely the opposite manner you describe. I will go out of my way to order parts from him the next opportunity I get. I wouldn't be able to do that if my truck were sold off for parts.

Similarly when I see a thread on this board where I believe I can add something to help, I do so. As I understand it, that is why this forum exists.
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RAVE in pdf:
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Discovery I exploded parts diagrams....
http://www.allbrit.de/NAV.cfm?SPRACHE=EN&PAGE=491338

Last edited by WaltNYC; 12-13-2018 at 03:02 PM.
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  #49  
Old 12-13-2018, 02:49 PM
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  #50  
Old 12-13-2018, 03:24 PM
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Next time check with me, I have 4 good starters and I work in the city and come in on the weekends. I could've given you a hand installing it.

John
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