Weird D1 stalling problem

EntilZha

Member
Mar 25, 2013
12
0
Amesbury, MA
Okay, I'm nearly at the end of my rope with this and am hoping someone will have a brainwave about it.

The background: I have a '97 D1 that was originally auto (ZF). Last year I converted it to manual (R380) and in general it runs perfectly. But there's one issue, in that under certain conditions (below) the engine just flat out dies.

Starting, shifting, and driving are all fine. But if you downshift (especially if doing so really revs the RPM) then push the clutch in, about 10% of the time the RPMs drop immediately to zero and dies. I've also noted it will go into this mode if you've been just using engine braking on a gentle downhill run (no downshift, just basically coasting). Popping the clutch generally restarts, otherwise it kicks right over with the turn of a key. On the road it gets 16-18MPG and the engine is absolutely smooth.

What's been done so far: IAC, MAF, and TPS swap (I have good spares for all 3). New fuel pressure regulator. Plenum chamber removed, resealed, and cleaned. All vacuum lines renewed and checked. Plugs/wires new last year (3k miles, no more). Air filter also new, etc. Working on replacing the fuel filter (age unknown, probably original) on the off chance it's involved, but one fitting is seized and I haven't gotten enough PB into the fitting to loosen it yet.

The shop that did the swap is very good, and they're scratching their heads. I've talked with a few other folks and no one seems to have a handle on this, so I'm looking for weird things that might have been missed. I'm pretty sure the shop put the proper spacer on the crank sensor, and the ECU is from a manual car thanks to another LRO who sent one my way a few weeks ago.

So...ideas, please before I give it to someone as target practice?

Thx,

dj
 
Last edited:

discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
7,733
1,024
Northern Illinois
First thing I would do is set the minimum idle, reset closed throttle position and rest all the adaptions. After that I would be looking for a PROM for a manual trans car. Then if none of that helps I've heard that crankshaft end play causing stuff like your saying. I think the clutch and pressure plate are less forgiving than flex plate and converter?
 

EntilZha

Member
Mar 25, 2013
12
0
Amesbury, MA
How do you set the min idle and so forth on a D1? This is all handled by the ECU AFAIK.

On the ECU, it's from a manual car and it's been exhibiting this problem from the time it was installed (I reset adaptations then). I've put 400+ miles on the car and there's no real change. Behavior was exactly the same as with an auto 'box ECU, in fact.

Some of the behavior is just weird. It'll sometimes (not always) stall even if you haven't downshifted, but have been using engine braking on a long gentle slope. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. There are absolutely no errors in the OBD system either.

It almost feels like it's starving itself of fuel. I half wonder if it's something as easy as a clogged fuel filter, but I'd expect that to cause problems during hard acceleration/high demand.
 

EntilZha

Member
Mar 25, 2013
12
0
Amesbury, MA
According to the guy who sold me the ECU, it came out of an AEL vehicle. The car is AEL (rectangular carbon canister) so I'm hoping that's correct. I've never been able to find a list showing which part number matches a particular set of characteristics.

That said, the original ECU in the car was AEL and exhibited the same symptoms.

Yep, it's a stumper.
 

4Runner

Well-known member
May 24, 2007
663
111
Boise Idaho
Maybe your crank position sensor? Shorting, bad connections, the wrong sensor. Hopefully it's not your reluctor ring moving around as you accelerate or deaccelerate. Maybe a bad connection that is actually turning your engine off electrically. And you can adjust the minimum idle. May not be your problem but I would establish that is it set correctly.
 

EntilZha

Member
Mar 25, 2013
12
0
Amesbury, MA
I'm pretty sure the VSS is okay, since I have a ScanGauge hooked up and it reads consistently. I've finally sourced a new crank sensor (note to all, these are becoming unobtainium from even after-market sources and Rover has none left they'll admit to) and will be swapping it out shortly. Fingers crossed.
 

discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
7,733
1,024
Northern Illinois
Had similar problems with my '97 D1. Replaced the Vehicle Speed Sensor (on LH side of transfer box) to solve. Easy, inexpensive fix.

I don't think it's possible for the VSS to make a Disco stall. Makes the truck loose all power because the system shuts down half the injectors to slow the truck down. When the signal from the VSS starts to break down the truck sees 70 mph as a much higher speed.
 

discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
7,733
1,024
Northern Illinois
How do you set the min idle and so forth on a D1? This is all handled by the ECU AFAIK.

On the ECU, it's from a manual car and it's been exhibiting this problem from the time it was installed (I reset adaptations then). I've put 400+ miles on the car and there's no real change. Behavior was exactly the same as with an auto 'box ECU, in fact.

Some of the behavior is just weird. It'll sometimes (not always) stall even if you haven't downshifted, but have been using engine braking on a long gentle slope. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. There are absolutely no errors in the OBD system either.

It almost feels like it's starving itself of fuel. I half wonder if it's something as easy as a clogged fuel filter, but I'd expect that to cause problems during hard acceleration/high demand.

Sorry I mised this. To set the min idle you need a T4. At least thats the only way I know. When the T4 is setting min idle speed you turn the idle air bleed till the IAC counts are between about 9 and 21 or something like that. That way you know the idle air control motor is in a good position. The other part of what I said is the resetting of adaptions and closed throttle position learn. Look for a thread on here about resetting adaptions. I'm sure Land Rovers T4 isn't the only piece of equipment tha can do these things. Just the only one I have access to.
 

discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
7,733
1,024
Northern Illinois
The reason crankshaft endplay could cause a problem is the crankkind of gets pushed forward when your on the clutch pedal and can move backward when you release it. Also I was thinking there was a spacer or something in automatic trans flex plate setups and no spacer in the flywheel for a standard trans. Its been a while so maybe check the parts catalogs to make sure of that, its been a long time since I've had a standard trans truck apart.

Also I think you should take a step back and diagnose it as if you havent just done this conversion. If you can duplcate the stall while not moving you could watch the spark on a spark checker to see if that is what your loosing. If you never loose spark and it still stalls then it could just be the minimum idle and adaptions. Regardless the closed throttle reset, min idle and adaptions would be the first thing I would do.