Rocker Assembly Verification

robert.juric

Active member
May 16, 2017
39
0
North Alabama
Hello there, new to this forum.

I have a 2001 D2 with about 170k on it. I very recently completed a HG and front cover job. Since getting it back together I've been fighting a P0308 misfire. After replacing most of the common components, I'm still stuck with the lone P0308 and a rough idle. I've replaced the front O2 sensors, coils, wires, plugs, and injectors. I still cant shake the P0308, but I'm getting quicker at removing that upper intake.

Some other steps, I've put an inspection camera into #8 and it looked fine. There were no coolant puddles and it appeared the same as other cylinders. If I move a dirty plug into #8, it does not get cleaned. The engine starts right up without hesitation. I've also done my best to spray around with carb cleaner to look for vacuum leaks and I haven't been able to find anything conclusive there.

I was talking with a fellow local Disco owner and I'm starting to think it may be valve train related or if nothing else just redo the whole HG job. I recall some difficulties with that passenger side rocker assembly when I was putting everything back together. My rocker assemblies were quite grimy so I cleaned them in gasoline before reinstalling. Other than that I did not do anything special with their re-assembly except poor some oil over them once the oil pan was installed. The heads were surfaced and had a valve job completed by a local shop. I remember there was junk from the hot dip in the rocker tower bolts and I had issues getting one of the bolts in (almost cross threaded it). I was able to get everything torqued down, but its just that nagging dread. I have some pics I took during the job on Flickr.

So I'm thinking about tearing it down to the valve covers and taking a look inside. I'm just not 100% sure what I can look for or test with the valve covers off to verify that the problem is not with the rocker assembly. Any input or ideas would be appreciated.
 

robert.juric

Active member
May 16, 2017
39
0
North Alabama
I replaced all the injectors with tested remans. I also tested the voltage at the harness, and replaced the orings (beyond the new ones) on the #8 just in case.
 

Tugela

Well-known member
May 21, 2007
4,763
564
Seattle
I have nothing substantive to contribute to the solution of your problem, but I did want to say I'm impressed by your thorough and systematic approach to doing the HG job in the first place and your detective work to track the culprit. It may take a while, but with persistence you should figure it out - it doesn't sound like there are many remaining possibilities to eliminate (perhaps swap in a different rocker assembly to see if that changes anything?). Good luck.
 

4Runner

Well-known member
May 24, 2007
663
111
Boise Idaho
Get yourself a dial indicator that you can set up on your heads and measure your valve lift. Pull all your spark plugs and turn the engine over by hand. You will be looking for more of a comparison between all intake valves and then all the exhaust valves. It won't tell you where you are loosing your lift, but it will tell you which ones to look at. Good luck.
 

squirt

Well-known member
Nov 13, 2008
824
13
Los Angeles
I went through this a year ago. Same cylinder, would only misfire if I brought the RPM's over 3k. It would go for months without a misfire code, so long as I kept the RPM's low. Wenth through all the same ignition parts, injectors, intake seal, etc. I pulled the valve covers, saw nothing conclusive with the rockers, shafts, pushrods, etc. Decided to measure lift on the rockers and got measurements that were all over the place. As you rotate the engine, the lifters will leak down, giving highly variable results. It's not as easy to get comparison measurements as it might seem. I'm about 99% convinced that I've got a worn cam lobe on #8, but honestly it's not intrusive enough for me to go through the effort of repair - yet. At some point if I have the oil pan off, I'll have a look at the cam from the bottom and take some measurements. Or if my head gaskets decide to let loose, I'll plan a cam replacement into the job.
 

jymmiejamz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2004
6,008
361
35
Los Angeles, Ca
Did you zip tie the injector harness to the fuel rail? I've seen it a few times where someone has done that and the wires end up shorting out. I would also do a compression and leak down test.
 

robert.juric

Active member
May 16, 2017
39
0
North Alabama
Thanks for the input everyone. Excuse any simple questions.

When measuring valve lift, would you measure the valve spring side or the push rod?

Based on the re-assembly I assume its safe to remove the rocker arm assembly while the heads and lower manifold are still on?

A few people have recommended the compression test. I've tested it, and I got #8 and another cylinder up to 120. It took more turns than I expected, but this was the first time I've done one. Would the compression test completely rule out the valve train? Could a valve stick closed, and pass the compression test but still cause a misfire? Also my understanding is that the leak down test is only valuable if the compression test fails? Just trying to work out the next troubleshooting steps before I dig into it.
 

discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
7,733
1,024
Northern Illinois
Because its an early Disco2 you could have sticking exhaust guides. It's a problem for all GEMS engines but a couple years into the Disco2 they figured out how big that guide needed to be.

The way you check for a sticking valve is a little time consuming but not as bad as pulling the head again. Put air in the cylinder to hold the valves closed and pull the spring off the exhaust valve. I put a zip tie in the keeper groove in case I drop the valve. I know it can't really go anyplace but it makes me feel better. Now release the air in the cylinder and start moving the valve while rotating it between your thumb and forefinger. When they are tight and sticking you will feel it. The fix is a 7 micron larger reamer run thru the guide and cleaning the carbon off the valve stem with a wire wheel. Probably not what you wanted to hear after doing headgaskets.
 

discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
7,733
1,024
Northern Illinois
I went through this a year ago. Same cylinder, would only misfire if I brought the RPM's over 3k. It would go for months without a misfire code, so long as I kept the RPM's low. Wenth through all the same ignition parts, injectors, intake seal, etc. I pulled the valve covers, saw nothing conclusive with the rockers, shafts, pushrods, etc. Decided to measure lift on the rockers and got measurements that were all over the place. As you rotate the engine, the lifters will leak down, giving highly variable results. It's not as easy to get comparison measurements as it might seem. I'm about 99% convinced that I've got a worn cam lobe on #8, but honestly it's not intrusive enough for me to go through the effort of repair - yet. At some point if I have the oil pan off, I'll have a look at the cam from the bottom and take some measurements. Or if my head gaskets decide to let loose, I'll plan a cam replacement into the job.

I bet you have the same problem I just ran down. We did valves on most if not all Discos for the random misfire faults.
 

robert.juric

Active member
May 16, 2017
39
0
North Alabama
Would the sticking valve have been resolved with a valve job? The machine shop which did the surfacing also did a valve job and replaced the seals. So if I had a sticking valve that would mean the shop botched the job? Or is it possible to still have that problem after a valve job?

I guess I'm questioning my own work more than others. Which pretty much leaves the rocker assembly, which is why I was asking around verifying that.
 

robert.juric

Active member
May 16, 2017
39
0
North Alabama
I wanted to follow up to close out my own post.

I tore everything down to the rocker assemblies. I soaked the rocker assemblies and rocker covers in a strong degreaser (PurplePower) to clean them up. They were filthy. I also replaced the oil separator while I was at it. Nothing else was replaced besides the necessary gaskets/orings. After putting it all back together my misfires are gone. It could have been a very dirty/stuck rocker assembly component or an electrical connection that was reset more securely upon reassembly. Who knows. I'm just glad to have my Rover back!

Here is a pic of my initial reassembly with half-assed cleaning of the rocker assemblies:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertjuric/32904451341/in/album-72157675889696415/

Here is a pic after tearing back into it and giving the rocker assemblies a proper cleaning:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertjuric/35750773414/in/album-72157675889696415/