drop out cones vs spring retainers

[mightymg]

the whole day we were on 7 mile rim, I felt the ass end uloading while off cambre, then when I put on my hose clamp retainers the next day the difference was 110% i felt way more comfortable going off cambre, and it was a good thing because pritchett and behind the rocks were full of off cambre stuff......

 

[rtiqulatendisco]

I agree that for the most part, retained is more stable. When I was not locked front and rear, I would notice while driving over certian rocks that varied in height by a foot or more, or crawling through uneven ditches, that the cones allowed my tire to drop all the way down into the lower area and keep traction. If I was retained, the tire would be in the air spinning. This only worked when there was a upward force applied to the opposite tire, forcing the other down. See poor pic.

Now that I'm locked front and rear, the cones don't help out much from my experience. I've had around 8-9 different suspension set-ups and I live and learn. I'm still changing shit up.

 

[DiscoDino]

Width is also important...nice pic...

 

[MUSKYMAN]

I agree that for the most part, retained is more stable. When I was not locked front and rear, I would notice while driving over certian rocks that varied in height by a foot or more, or crawling through uneven ditches, that the cones allowed my tire to drop all the way down into the lower area and keep traction. If I was retained, the tire would be in the air spinning. This only worked when there was a upward force applied to the opposite tire, forcing the other down. See poor pic.

Now that I'm locked front and rear, the cones don't help out much from my experience. I've had around 8-9 different suspension set-ups and I live and learn. I'm still changing shit up.

that is ok droop but if this is all you get from cones why do it?...I get as much flex outa my 763(read stiff) and short shocks fully retained

something else to consider is there are two ways a tire droops

#1 droop from the weight of the axle and wheel tire combination.

this gives some but very little added traction.

#2 forced articulation droop

this is when another tire being forced up tranfers force over the fulcrum(spring seat nearest the stuffed tire) and causes the other tire to go down. The cool thing about this is because the fulcrum is attatched to the frame it can transfer force not only to the other side of the axle. If you are retained the force pushing down on that drooping side of the axle will also pull down on the drooped side of the frame and cause the front wheel that is being lifted to come down.

This is where Lane was at. in that same spot if he was fully retained his front drivers side would have been pulled down enough that the tire touched and he would have been able to drive right up even with his open front axle.

I can tell this is true because I climbed that exact spot 2 min later 2x both times with just my rear ARB locked and as you look at the pics of my truck there I was much flatter to the hill.

one more thing to keep in mind is that unretained rear springs drive much looser on the street then do retained springs...so much IMHO that even if you got huge amounts of traction from cones the trade off wouldent be worth it.

 

[bri]

I am not arguing the retainment issue, but Thom, you were nowhere near as far right.

I think.

 

[MUSKYMAN]

I am not arguing the retainment issue, but Thom, you were nowhere near as far right.

I think.

thats it your phone is lost forever

I dont think our lines were any different if you look at the tire marks on the rock I think we were both right on the mark.

and while I have you Brian...you run cones...but you are very shock limited so when your shock tops out it acts very much like a retained spring and transfers the weight as I described above. when you fully flexed out your springs only unseated about a inch before your shocks stop travel.

but your nice smooth driving and dual ARB's carrie you right through

 

[bri]

Ok so here you go...

I looked at the pictures of tha hill in detail. Specifically you and Lane, since I thought that you and I walked right up it too, and there were no pictures \of me in that same position.

In fact I was after Lane and remember wishing that I would have gone before since watching him scared the peep outa me.

So here is a pic of you, blown up a bit. Notice that your line up the hill is different and that your rear driver side wheel is just near the little ledge. Lanes was a good 2-3' off that little ledge which would have put his right rear in a hole on the other side.

I think Lanes lean had more to do with the hole on the passenger side than it did with him having retainers or not. Again, remember I am not argueing for or against retainers, since I would have no argument there, right?

Of course I could be wrong.

 

[bri]

Oh yeah, here is the other image so that you can easily compare side by side. LOL.

BTW, I have NO idea what Steve was really thinking, but it sure looks like Marc was waiting for something to blurt out.

 

[mightymg]

You know i was on the skinny pedal the whole time, i dont know why that time was different...

 

[Steve Rupp]

I think Lanes lean had more to do with the hole on the passenger side than it did with him having retainers or not.

Yes, but that doesn't discount the fact that retainers in that situation would have made it feel better and knowing Lane's driving style make him drive right through it.

 

[rtiqulatendisco]

that is ok droop but if this is all you get from cones why do it?...I get as much flex outa my 763(read stiff) and short shocks fully retained




No you don't my friend. First, those are 35's so they fill in more of the wheel well. Second, I have another 6 inches or so of droop if you look at the cone. I also use every inch of it with 14 inch 7100's.

I'm not arguing for one or the other. Both have benefits when in certain situations. If you like what you got, stick with it.

 

[MUSKYMAN]

lol...well lets see that 6 more inches then

I wasent knocking your flex in any way...hence my "if thats all you get" comment.

I expect you would get more with 14" 7100's than what that pic shows.

I actually almost went the cone route, living in the midwest I dont do near as many ledges as the guys out west and cones may work awsome on flatter more iregular terain where your looking for a wheel to drop into a deep rut from a 49" mud tired truck that went before you.

but I decided on retainers because alot of the guys I talk with that have run cones out west all went back to retainers for stability when they are off camber looking down over a 400' cliff

 

[curtis]

Oh yeah, here is the other image so that you can easily compare side by side. LOL.

BTW, I have NO idea what Steve was really thinking, but it sure looks like Marc was waiting for something to blurt out.

Bri is right. I popped that same wheelie as Lane while driving Eds rig with retained springs. I have also seen a D90 (Sue Buchelt) pop a nose wheelie by hitting that same hole going down. You don't really see it while you are on it, but that hole makes for some scary stuff with SWB rigs. A little to the left on the way up and all is good.

This is not to say that cones don't suck. They do. I also don't think he would have popped it as high retained, but thats just a guess.

 

[rtiqulatendisco]

lol...well lets see that 6 more inches then

I wasent knocking your flex in any way...hence my "if thats all you get" comment.

I expect you would get more with 14" 7100's than what that pic shows.

I actually almost went the cone route, living in the midwest I dont do near as many ledges as the guys out west and cones may work awsome on flatter more iregular terain where your looking for a wheel to drop into a deep rut from a 49" mud tired truck that went before you.

but I decided on retainers because alot of the guys I talk with that have run cones out west all went back to retainers for stability when they are off camber looking down over a 400' cliff

I do get more than that pic shows. That pic shows all 4 tires on the ground so there IS much more down travel. If there was a hole there, than you could see the droop. I wish I had more pics but I prefer to drive I'll probably go back to retained when I get back to CO in May.

 

[FIVESPDDISCO]

a cowboy hat ?? dont say

 

[mightymg]

here my pic of flex before, i guess there no need for those long ass travel black diamonds I have.... OHH so much for the drop cones anyways, when i was climbing suicide hill, my sheisty ass hose clmp retainers broke, and the spring came out so far it went below the retainers.. OHH YEAH IT WAS KNARLY ask steve he was a witness.....

 

[curtis]

Hey Lane - in that pic above are you right below the 'B'? Thats a fun little articulation section. Something for everyone

 

[rtiqulatendisco]

I'd love to see you turn left in that pic.

 

[mightymg]

the tire looks close but believe it or not, it doesnt hit up there.

 

[MUSKYMAN]

see thats the cool thing about Lane...if it did hit he would stop go into his complete shop in the back ...grab a tin snips and make it fit

Lane you ROCK!!!