INEOS Grenadier

Tugela

Tugela

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DiscoHasBeen said:
When I think of "off-roading" I'm thinking mud, muddy water, etc, and there's no way I'm doing that to a 75-100k plus vehicle that relies on a shit ton of electronics to simply start.
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I do all those things in my LR3, which relies on a shit ton of electronics. I've had it submerged to the tops of the wheel arches, belly deep in mud, rock crawling in the desert, and creeping through the technical, twisty trails in the Cascades. Granted, it's worth maybe $8,000 if I'm lucky, but the point is I am not alone in pushing a modern, electronically complex vehicle hard in difficult - and remote - terrain. And I'd do the same in a brand new Defender or Grenadier. These things are not precious, they are tools to be used for a purpose.

And just because my LR3 isn't worth much doesn't mean I abuse it. I take good care of that vehicle and try hard to avoid damage. So far, so good.

IMG_9979.JPG
 
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p m

p m

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DiscoHasBeen said:
Thinking about this I guess I'm looking at it with blinders on, so to speak. When I think of "off-roading" I'm thinking mud, muddy water, etc, and there's no way I'm doing that to a 75-100k plus vehicle that relies on a shit ton of electronics to simply start.
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Not a good comparison. A GEMS truck could go through a lot more water than a 14CUX, simply because nearly all of the small-signal or high-voltage electronics is sealed.
 
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DiscoHasBeen

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Tugela said:
I do all those things in my LR3, which relies on a shit ton of electronics. I've had it submerged to the tops of the wheel arches, belly deep in mud, rock crawling in the desert, and creeping through the technical, twisty trails in the Cascades. Granted, it's worth maybe $8,000 if I'm lucky, but the point is I am not alone in pushing a modern, electronically complex vehicle hard in difficult - and remote - terrain. And I'd do the same in a brand new Defender or Grenadier. These things are not precious, they are tools to be used for a purpose.

And just because my LR3 isn't worth much doesn't mean I abuse it. I take good care of that vehicle and try hard to avoid damage. So far, so good.

IMG_9979.JPG
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Bury those headlights and that's what I'm talking about. That picture is shit I'd do in the wife's Highlander.
 
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DiscoHasBeen

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p m said:
Not a good comparison. A GEMS truck could go through a lot more water than a 14CUX, simply because nearly all of the small-signal or high-voltage electronics is sealed.
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At some point moisture finds its way in. If I'm going to spend 75k on a rig to do the kind of wheeling I've been used to I'm looking for an earlier model vehicle with minimal electronics and pay for a frame off restoration and modernization. I don't want hill descent, and mud mode, and rock mode, or 360 cameras. Give me locking hubs, lever select 4 wheel drive, and air lockers.
 
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DiscoHasBeen

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RVR OVR said:
Yeah,

Yeah, there are all kinds of levels to it. Fire roads and easy trails are plenty fun in stock vehicles. Its when you start twisting through trees, going in deeper than 3 feet of mud/water, and bouncing off rocks that changes things. I wheeled my first Rover and had fun on 33's with a three inch lift. Then my wheeling buddies all started going to 35's , 38's and now fully caged buggies with 40"+ tires and it kind of was stupid to tag along and just take all the bypasses or drag myself around with a winch or tow strap all day. Totally different ball game.
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When I had my CJ I can't tell you the amount of times I had water coming over the hood, water well up into the floorboards, how many times I changed wheel bearings because of them being flooded out with muddy water. Many times newbies getting out at the end of a run and angrily telling me "don't ever do that with me in the truck again". A couple or more times definitely putting life and limb in danger, but man it sure seemed fun at the time. The s*** I could show you guys if only I had this phone in my hand back then.
 
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Tugela

Tugela

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DiscoHasBeen said:
Bury those headlights and that's what I'm talking about. That picture is shit I'd do in the wife's Highlander.
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I would have loved to see you in your wife's Highlander on that trail...for the first half mile until you got stuck, after which I wouldn't have seen you again. I had to pull out a Range Rover sporting MT tires and a 1997 D90 barely avoided the same fate. You'll forgive me if I don't have photos of that section as I was too busy with the recovery.
 
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p m

p m

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DiscoHasBeen said:
At some point moisture finds its way in. If I'm going to spend 75k on a rig to do the kind of wheeling I've been used to I'm looking for an earlier model vehicle with minimal electronics and pay for a frame off restoration and modernization. I don't want hill descent, and mud mode, and rock mode, or 360 cameras. Give me locking hubs, lever select 4 wheel drive, and air lockers.
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There's a hint of a contradiction in this post.
 
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DiscoHasBeen

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Tugela said:
I would have loved to see you in your wife's Highlander on that trail...for the first half mile until you got stuck, after which I wouldn't have seen you again. I had to pull out a Range Rover sporting MT tires and a 1997 D90 barely avoided the same fate. You'll forgive me if I don't have photos of that section as I was too busy with the recovery.
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Then post a more representative picture of the trail.
 
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DiscoHasBeen

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p m said:
There's a hint of a contradiction in this post.
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When I come here it's mostly a drive-by while drinking at the end of the day, so please spare me the innuendo and make your point.

As to controls, my point is give me something that doesn't count on electronics to activate, and give me a vehicle that counts on my skill and forethought, not my ability to push a button. Also, as a golf course superintendent who sends equipment out into the weather all the time, it's a losing battle. Sooner or later moisture finds a way into places you don't want it to.
 
p m

p m

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DiscoHasBeen said:
When I come here it's mostly a drive-by while drinking at the end of the day, so please spare me the innuendo and make your point.
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The point is that there are billion pieces of electrical equipment working underwater for years. It is much easier to insulate electrical equipment from moisture than it is for mechanical parts moving with respect to each other.
I would guess that a brand new Range Rover, driven in two and a half feet of water, would outlast a Series truck driven in the same conditions. A new Tesla will outlast that brand new Range Rover by another huge margin.
 
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DiscoHasBeen

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p m said:
The point is that there are billion pieces of electrical equipment working underwater for years. It is much easier to insulate electrical equipment from moisture than it is for mechanical parts moving with respect to each other.
I would guess that a brand new Range Rover, driven in two and a half feet of water, would outlast a Series truck driven in the same conditions. A new Tesla will outlast that brand new Range Rover by another huge margin.
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Those pieces of equipment driven underwater for years might cost a little more than 100k. That said point taken.

My point was only I'm not subjecting a 100k vehicle to the abuse I consider off-roading, but I can see how others would not have a problem with that given what off-roading is to them.
 
RVR OVR

RVR OVR

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DiscoHasBeen said:
When I had my CJ I can't tell you the amount of times I had water coming over the hood, water well up into the floorboards, how many times I changed wheel bearings because of them being flooded out with muddy water. Many times newbies getting out at the end of a run and angrily telling me "don't ever do that with me in the truck again". A couple or more times definitely putting life and limb in danger, but man it sure seemed fun at the time. The s*** I could show you guys if only I had this phone in my hand back then.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I get that. That is why I wheel in my RZR. I have been deep enough to have water above my belly button while driving around. If somebody wants a daily driver that they get groceries in, have the kiddies car seats in, and drive to work everyday, they are not likely to be doing that. It is a pack of fun taking stock vehicles on easy trails with stockish tires and really trying not to break or scratch it for those types of folks in those types of cars. It is also a pack of fun taking a minimalist off road vehicle into harsh terrain and not caring about how deep you get stuck in the mud or how hard you smash down on a rock, because next Saturday's three beer fix-it day in the garage is the reward. Takes all kinds. The 75k+ off roading crowd is out there and growing.
 
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pinkytoe69

pinkytoe69

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p m said:
It took me a few years to come to off-roading that's not abuse. Maybe you'll come around, too :)
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But if there is no danger of abuse, are you really off-roading?

Where is the line between a no-pavement-bumpy-trail and off-roading?
 
p m

p m

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pinkytoe69 said:
And would you take a brand new 100k vehicle through that? 😄
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No, but I'd take it to tens of thousands of miles of somewhat-more-than-bumpy-forest-roads.
Basically, rendering a (y) or (n) verdict on an off-road worthiness of a vehicle based on its ability to cross a mud puddle is a classic East Coast thing.
But it's a wimpy me; a whole bunch of very early Discoweb people including all three who started it took their then-brand-new trucks to Rubicon, Dusy Ershim, and many of the hardest Moab trails around 2001. Inflation-adjust if you want.
 
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Blueboy

Blueboy

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p m said:
Basically, rendering a (y) or (n) verdict on an off-road worthiness of a vehicle based on its ability to cross a mud puddle is a classic East Coast thing.
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Maybe more in the Southern part of the East Coast. ECR in its early year had a nice article on how to setup a SWB Rangie for off roading in Maine and other NE areas. Pizza Cutter Super Swampers were part of it.
 
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