4.0 Conversion To A Carburator Its Finally Done!!

[Paul Grant]

I have to come to MontrealRR90's defense on a couple of issues.

First, I want to acknowledge that the type of conversion he did will not be legal in a number of states in the US (and that number is growing).

Second, I also want to acknowledge that an EFI system has a number of benefits over carburettors, not the least of which, when wroking, are efficiency and dependability.

However, as an owner of a 4.0L Edelbrock carburetted Range Rover (1985) that I have put almost 70K miles on over the last six years, I can understand why he wanted to convert his induction system.

I also want to dispute a number of assertions made on this thread and my contentions come from first hand experience.

First, if MontrealRR90 keeps his cats he wil have no problem passing any emissions test where a sniffer is used. I don't know how Canada or Quebec tests their automobiles but I do know that when I took my truck through emissions in CT in April, with two cats, it emitted almost nothing and passed with flying colors.

Second, after years of running carburettors on my '85 (it was initially Federalized in 1985) I replaced them when I upgraded to a 4.0L. The original cats lasted over fifteen years and my truck passed numerous emissions test so a claim that running carurettors will ruin your cats in two month is a bit dubious to me.

Third, I would NEVER recommend a Davis Unified distributor. They don't fit, I know, I had one. Only last week at British By the Sea I was discussing the FAILURE of DUI with Arthur from Rovers North. He showed me the grinding that had to be done to get their distributor to fit on the Rovers North Disco and when it was in it was unreliable. Call Rovers North and ask Arthur why they're not carrying the brand any longer. Give Atlantic British a call too and ask them why they dropped DUI as one of their specials and now offer Mallory.

Edelbrock offers an offroad set up for their carbs and while I won't say that it solves all the potential problems one might encounter offroading with a carburetted engine, it is a definite improvement. All these horror stories about carbs just makes me wonder how Land Rover ever got its reputation considering that it was built on old four bangers knocking around with old SU's and Zenith's.

As far as efficiency is concerned, I have been getting a little over 13 mpg in my Range Rover which has a 2" lift, roof rack, winch, 245/75/16's ect. So I don't think it is fair to make claims of 8-9mpg. Maybe with knackered Strombergs but with the Edelbrock MontrealRR90 might even see and improvement over EFI if it wasn't working right. I know that when I had a brand new Range Rover back in '94 I was thrilled to see 13 mpg. Ordinarily, mileage was barely aboue 12 mpg.

Finally, I love reading all the threads about fault codes and bad sensors and so on and so on. I understand MontrealRR90's desire to be free of all this crap.

 

[MontrealRR90]

I have to come to MontrealRR90's defense on a couple of issues.

First, I want to acknowledge that the type of conversion he did will not be legal in a number of states in the US (and that number is growing).

Second, I also want to acknowledge that an EFI system has a number of benefits over carburettors, not the least of which, when wroking, are efficiency and dependability.

However, as an owner of a 4.0L Edelbrock carburetted Range Rover (1985) that I have put almost 70K miles on over the last six years, I can understand why he wanted to convert his induction system.

I also want to dispute a number of assertions made on this thread and my contentions come from first hand experience.

First, if MontrealRR90 keeps his cats he wil have no problem passing any emissions test where a sniffer is used. I don't know how Canada or Quebec tests their automobiles but I do know that when I took my truck through emissions in CT in April, with two cats, it emitted almost nothing and passed with flying colors.




Second, after years of running carburettors on my '85 (it was initially Federalized in 1985) I replaced them when I upgraded to a 4.0L. The original cats lasted over fifteen years and my truck passed numerous emissions test so a claim that running carurettors will ruin your cats in two month is a bit dubious to me.

Third, I would NEVER recommend a Davis Unified distributor. They don't fit, I know, I had one. Only last week at British By the Sea I was discussing the FAILURE of DUI with Arthur from Rovers North. He showed me the grinding that had to be done to get their distributor to fit on the Rovers North Disco and when it was in it was unreliable. Call Rovers North and ask Arthur why they're not carrying the brand any longer. Give Atlantic British a call too and ask them why they dropped DUI as one of their specials and now offer Mallory.

Edelbrock offers an offroad set up for their carbs and while I won't say that it solves all the potential problems one might encounter offroading with a carburetted engine, it is a definite improvement. All these horror stories about carbs just makes me wonder how Land Rover ever got its reputation considering that it was built on old four bangers knocking around with old SU's and Zenith's.

As far as efficiency is concerned, I have been getting a little over 13 mpg in my Range Rover which has a 2" lift, roof rack, winch, 245/75/16's ect. So I don't think it is fair to make claims of 8-9mpg. Maybe with knackered Strombergs but with the Edelbrock MontrealRR90 might even see and improvement over EFI if it wasn't working right. I know that when I had a brand new Range Rover back in '94 I was thrilled to see 13 mpg. Ordinarily, mileage was barely aboue 12 mpg.

Finally, I love reading all the threads about fault codes and bad sensors and so on and so on. I understand MontrealRR90's desire to be free of all this crap.

tks paul !Amen!

 

[Craigness]

I read your thread and both agree and disagree on many points.

It's only a matter of time before Canada follows the US and other countries on emissions. Global Warmin now proven a fact will change this.

Look at the bright side RR90, you soon wont have to worry about cold weather starting with the choke :{

There is always a better way to do anything. Unless your a Republican.

And my 96 Disco trail ring with 2.5" lift and full rack/lights/mud tires gets 18-21 on the highway if I go no more than 60 mph. (Tuned the mass flow sensor to make the car a bit leaner. they run rich as trump you know). No codes!

The Davis distributor does need a shoe horn but it works perfectly in my 90 classic. Lots of spark and I had to widen my gap .10 and it starts on the key. You need differen wires though. The reason they are no longer sold by Rovers North and A/B is that they are not just a drop in and both those guys don't need to privide the tech support for it. The mallory is great but you should go with a better ignition system like the MSD or even better, the Jacobs.

As far as the cats go, you can lean out the carb to pass any emissions test and this will also save the cats. There are a number of trade-offs as with any sliding scale car adjustment.

Check out the stuff "Guaranteed to Pass" at Pep Boys. Works well. Trust me.

Just make sure to take the test with it in the tank, not after.

CT's old emissions test was easy to pass. They just checked Nox value and it was a drive though, so the car was hot enough to burn most of it off. I lived in Danbury for years.

Good luck and anybody planning a pumper conversion should read all of these posts and make a decision based on their own opinion.

Craig(ness)

 

[MontrealRR90]

I read your thread and both agree and disagree on many points.

It's only a matter of time before Canada follows the US and other countries on emissions. Global Warmin now proven a fact will change this.

Look at the bright side RR90, you soon wont have to worry about cold weather starting with the choke :{

There is always a better way to do anything. Unless your a Republican.

And my 96 Disco trail ring with 2.5" lift and full rack/lights/mud tires gets 18-21 on the highway if I go no more than 60 mph. (Tuned the mass flow sensor to make the car a bit leaner. they run rich as trump you know). No codes!

The Davis distributor does need a shoe horn but it works perfectly in my 90 classic. Lots of spark and I had to widen my gap .10 and it starts on the key. You need differen wires though. The reason they are no longer sold by Rovers North and A/B is that they are not just a drop in and both those guys don't need to privide the tech support for it. The mallory is great but you should go with a better ignition system like the MSD or even better, the Jacobs.

As far as the cats go, you can lean out the carb to pass any emissions test and this will also save the cats. There are a number of trade-offs as with any sliding scale car adjustment.

Check out the stuff "Guaranteed to Pass" at Pep Boys. Works well. Trust me.

Just make sure to take the test with it in the tank, not after.

CT's old emissions test was easy to pass. They just checked Nox value and it was a drive though, so the car was hot enough to burn most of it off. I lived in Danbury for years.

Good luck and anybody planning a pumper conversion should read all of these posts and make a decision based on their own opinion.

Craig(ness)

tks for your opinion!

i hope nobody tought i wanted others to do the same thing.When i started the project it was because it would be fairly easy to do with my knowlege and of the persons helping me with this. Right now in Quebec they are not even thinking of passing a law so i have a few years ahead of me and based my decision a lot on that. And i'm keeping an open mind on different carburator set ups I will at least try this one with the nozzles that AXD proposed earlier from summit racing on in the thread and see how that goes

 

[syoung]

Dang it- because of your selfish carb conversion, the Earth will drown... never mind that we're coming out of an ice age and have been for thousands of years.
Anyway- the Mallory distributor with any one of the line of Mallory controller boxes will help a lot. There were carbs on cars with catalytic converters for many years and people live to tell the stories- just tune it right and avoid inclines.

 

[MontrealRR90]

Dang it- because of your selfish carb conversion, the Earth will drown... never mind that we're coming out of an ice age and have been for thousands of years.
Anyway- the Mallory distributor with any one of the line of Mallory controller boxes will help a lot. There were carbs on cars with catalytic converters for many years and people live to tell the stories- just tune it right and avoid inclines.

they have controler boxes that help on inclines i guess? i will check that out! tks. what else will this distributor to for me?

 

[MontrealRR90]

i like the edelbrock over the holley's.
as for the webers they rock.
the 48 ida's are some of the sweetest carbs, they can be mounted anyway you want, even upside down.

whats the 48 ida's ??

 

[dominic]

whats the 48 ida's ??

Hey Patrick
you ommited a little detail ME lol

Cummon spill the beans of praise how i talked you into this conversion haggled with England suppliers got the parts and drove up to Montreal had to learn French roadsigns and got lost, get licked to death by those Bostons & beat you at pool and had a damm good time courtessy of your hospitality, actually i enjoyed reading all the posts because it means that your a happy bunny! but i know im going to be having some fun and beer's at Silver lake OVLR who knows you might pull me out!

Lest i forget - the Davis DUI is just a slimline dissy half of them dont work as i said just get a Buick HEI from a chev 350 78-84 with the coil in the cap grind down that edelbrock mounting nut area and double gap the plugs, as its 50kv - never mind all the geek bollocks its tried and tested and pennies and doesnt come with a land rover sticker! its American and NAPA will sell it over the counter

Other thing is i have the edelbrock 390 cfm carb (with off road carb floats) on my project studebaker on discovery running gear - you can order separatly the steep angle floats for the bowl IF you run into problems but as i said next thing i suggest is a set of Hedman headers from Summit @ $130. US a set they look great and let the motor breathe now its just down to airflow this is where the fun starts! a piper cam a stage 1 port jobby and if i finally find that Welland blower im searching for ill let you try it grin

Im VERY VERY happy that it looks like your back on the road mate

Cheers

Dom

 

[dave_lucas]

MontrealRR90

Another thing to consider would be adding a propane kit :drool:

Now that you have a standard intake it should be easy to find a setup and it would resolve any concerns with the motor stalling out at angles

Not to mention that propane should cost less than gas...

 

[MontrealRR90]

MontrealRR90

Another thing to consider would be adding a propane kit :drool:

Now that you have a standard intake it should be easy to find a setup and it would resolve any concerns with the motor stalling out at angles

Not to mention that propane should cost less than gas...

i will look in to that also tks

 

[MontrealRR90]

took it today on first long run it runs great!

yes it works great! Starts on first try everytime can't even tell its a carburator.
Took it out on the hyway and it runs really well very happy so far.

Offroading next week at OVLR http://www.ovlr.org/ will let you know how it goes

also ordered from summit racing the offroad set up for the carb.

 

[scottjal]

I think this is a decent choice given your criteria. With the off roading you do and the angles the carb is capable of do you think that is even going to be an issue? Still I am curious about carb icing especially with the temperatures you quoted driving in, the snorkel and the air boxes don't have any provision for a warm air intake (would defeat the purpose) think this will be a problem?

 

[95d1]

I ran the same type of Carb and intake on my old K5 Blazer with no probs in the winter months in the Rockies in Canada .

 

[Milan]

MontrealRR90 and Dominic,
I like what you guys have accomplished. I have been contemplating this mods since I bought our Disco in 2000. It too was due to all the electrical issues it has had and cost me a bundle to get fixed even though it was under warranty. Fuel pump, fuel pump relay, solenoid box, CPS, ECU, etc... Eventually the ECU was the biggest culprit and then I was able to fix the remaining water related stalling myself. But I was so frustrated I immediatelly missed a carbed engine. EFI my butt. All it's good for is autoadjustment to atmospheric pressure and air/coolant temperature and that it will run upside down (which you don't want if engine oil is not by the pump pick up). I still wish ignition was a separate system not integrated with the fuel delivery system - ala GM TBI - on all engines today. I see no value in integrated systems as a consumer.

The one thing that stopped me from doing the conversion was that I could not find the front engine cover for a 3.9L at the time. Do you guys know where i could get one?
Our Disco runs and so I'm not going to touch it just yet but the immobilizer is still touchy and the engine does seem to be quite lazy and consuming more gas than before. One day I will get ticked off and either swap it for a Cheby V8 but I feel for now it could be made to work with the mods you have done.

 

[dominic]

i will look in to that also tks

Hey Patrick
got a buddy coming back tomorrow regards air filter - camaro should do it to the 4 barrel with a tube input.

yes you just missed a propane kit on ebay $284 would have fitted straight on that! it was just a basic changeover kit not like the monitored pre-warmer system i run on my rig but hey at $0.40 cents CDN a litre who gives a rats arse!

Now youve got me tempted to fit those Hedman headers i was saving for the hot rod - regardless of all the talk about 48 state legal as a Canadian Ontario resident knowing how the 2 year smog test program works is that eventually Quebec will get the same system but there are exceptions my own rigs checks were overwritten by driveclean head engineers as they fully understood that duel fuel hybrids like mine have residuel elements of either octane left for many days and therefore are unable to provide an accurate reading - besides which ill just weld you a kicking 'emission day only' exhaust say 10 cats per side in a line and a lot of duct tape! lol you'd be breathing underwater on it mate

I of course having fully read your posts and know the situation am 100% sure in this instance you made the right move - its horses for courses most of the owners are more than likely using there rigs as suplemental minivans than real explorers and theres nothing wrong with that even I wouldnt wheel the wifes SE7 - without the right kit it just wouldnt do the log skidding or shunting wrecks that mine does lol to go wheeling is the fun after the donkey work is done and thats why ive been wrenching like an ejit for the last few weeks ready for the birthday bash as mines only been on the highway in all this year for no more than 500 kms! but all best abilites and bolt on goodies aside im sure there will be a better truck or even a better driver that makes the RTV in a bog standard 48 series 1 - main thing is just to have a laugh and see what it can do and learn from it

Dom​

 

[dominic]

No problem - just get a machine shop to drill out the blanked hole for the dissy and tap the boss for the clamp - failing that PM me and ill modify one on exchange for you the 1995 motors used the serpentine covers with a distributor, im lucky in my instance as im running the old 1987 pre hotwire lucas L2 unit hence doesnt have this alarm integration lol i barely lock the rig anyway as who's gonna steal it with the steering wheel on the opposite side besides which i have a compound with a partically nasty border collie thats more irritable than the GSD lol

Id be happy to walk you though the parts required and the neccesary steps to reach the road of enlightenment - your absolutly right regards the lack of adjustability Spen King may have took a risk in 69 buying the buick 300 block but it took Overfinch to use the 5.7 350 and really make the truck perform - trouble is the only people that sell the adaptors all seem to be Aussie based maybe i could have fitted a chevvy block to my former 82 that came with a GM torqueflight but they switched to the Kraut ZF in 86 thus why were all tweaking this little motor but then again thats what makes it fun bit like the Lancia turbo i had in the UK 1000cc ferrari developed motor with a garrett T5 blower darn thing would top 125mph!! its not about cubes but more important usable torque - for me im happy with the 4.0 4 bolt its enough besides if i want speed ill reach for the sportbike or the BMW ahh toy's

Dom

 

[kellymoe]

I just finished reading the thread. Nice job on the conversion. Looks clean, much cleaner than mine.

As to the people who say you are nuts going from EFI to carb? Well there are definitely pros and cons to each. I have had my efi stall off road and especially at altitude. I have had my carbed Defender stall while climbing steep slopes though only a few times, it's not as bad as everyone says. I just got back from a trip with my Defender lat night where I went from sea level to 11,000 feet and the truck didn't miss a beat except for a slight loss of power, I cannot say the same for my EFI Disco however, every time I made the same trip with my Disco it ALWAYS stalled when coming to a stop at high altitude. One thing I like about my carbed truck over EFI is the reliability factor when I am 200 miles from the closest piece of asphalt, easy to work on although I have not had to yet. No electronics to worry about. Simplicity rules:victory:

 

[MontrealRR90]

Hey Patrick
got a buddy coming back tomorrow regards air filter - camaro should do it to the 4 barrel with a tube input.

Hi dom any news For the air filter !!!​

 

[Delk]

I have been thinking about changing my wifes 96 Disco over to the same setup. It is daily job to keep the electrics running while living on a small island where there is no help and lots of salt water.

Is anyone using or looking into installing an aftermarket injection controler like the Megasquirt-II?
(www.megasquirt.info)

The 24V electrics in my series 2A or the injection system in my jeep with a 4.7 liter stroker don't give me any trouble.

 

[MontrealRR90]

I have been thinking about changing my wifes 96 Disco over to the same setup. It is daily job to keep the electrics running while living on a small island where there is no help and lots of salt water.

Is anyone using or looking into installing an aftermarket injection controler like the Megasquirt-II?
(www.megasquirt.info)

The 24V electrics in my series 2A or the injection system in my jeep with a 4.7 liter stroker don't give me any trouble.

its a good set up but i don,t have emissions were i live to deal with if you do not have any eitheir i would say go for it! So far it runs great can't even tell its a carburator.