Let us be more precise: I assume by "Lost full control" you meant "Fully lost control."
Any helicopter has computer-controlled flight enhancement.
737 Max 8/9
- Thread starter brian4d
- Start date
Here's another good article on the subject - https://www.wsj.com/articles/inside-u-s-airlines-decisions-to-keep-flying-the-737-max-11553092416 .
A quote from the end of it:
There you go.
A quote from the end of it:
There you go.
According to an article I saw, the pilot and co-pilot were recorded as being at a loss as to how to handle the issue. The issue was encountered before, according to Boeing, and by their own words the guys had to go through three check lists before figuring out what was wrong.
I mean, I can understand a check list, and trouble-shooting is tough on the spot, but damn. They had to go through three? Boeing is proud of that?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as with the Defender thread, I believe rather firmly that failure or undesired activity of an automated system should allow that system to be manually defeated and full control given to the operators of the machine until the problem is sorted. I don't think that's too much to ask for a commercial aircraft.
Military aircraft are a different story, but passengers on a commercial flight are not expendable.
Cheers,
Kennith
I mean, I can understand a check list, and trouble-shooting is tough on the spot, but damn. They had to go through three? Boeing is proud of that?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as with the Defender thread, I believe rather firmly that failure or undesired activity of an automated system should allow that system to be manually defeated and full control given to the operators of the machine until the problem is sorted. I don't think that's too much to ask for a commercial aircraft.
Military aircraft are a different story, but passengers on a commercial flight are not expendable.
Cheers,
Kennith
I didn't picture you having reading comprehension issues. Let me try again.
The switch is literally near the knee of either pilot.
I apologize. I missed that post. I did find it very difficult to believe that there was no way to defeat the system. It didn't make sense.
I'm having a bit of trouble with the forum saving things I've almost finished typing.
Many times, I'll start a post just to remind myself, leave, and come back later to finish it before posting.
It's not quite the same now, and I've had to edit a lot of posts, as a result. Normally what you see is not similar to what I originally started to type. I kind of have to type myself into a flow, because I'm dyslexic as fuck.
Cheers,
Kennith
LMAO Kennith, that was long, too.
If you do have a WSJ subscription, read the comments under the article. Most of those are by current or former 737 pilots, and the general feeling is that of a bewilderment - what's the fuss is all about.
I am wondering if it is a known-for-decades pilot-induced oscillation.
If you do have a WSJ subscription, read the comments under the article. Most of those are by current or former 737 pilots, and the general feeling is that of a bewilderment - what's the fuss is all about.
I am wondering if it is a known-for-decades pilot-induced oscillation.
Yeah, it's surprising to most, but I do actually have issues reading certain things. That's one of the reasons I hate it when people don't use paragraphs. The letters just start swimming around. Spreadsheets are kryptonite to me. So long as I can read it, though, it's assimilated immediately. Sometimes it's contrast. I don't have a Pirate account because I can't read the shit.
For the purposes of community amusement, I will not read my next reply to a thread before posting it; nor will I come back and finish it later.
I don't have a subscription to WSJ, but I see what you're pointing out. If pilots are wondering what the big deal is, something naturally smells a little off about all the attention this is getting.
I'm not familiar with the properties of that airframe.
Without having seen all manner of tests and looking over scale models or renders, it's impossible for me to have an educated opinion one way or another, but I can bullshit and speculate a bit like anyone else:
The only thing I can spot is that it looks like the revisions would cause slightly more of the horizontal stabilizers to exist in a lower pressure environment close to the fuselage; not much, though. They'd certainly have caught and alleviated any such issues even before tunnel testing.
Eh. What the fuck do I know? I'm versed well enough in regard to certain military aircraft, but the only civilian model I'm genuinely interested in is the DC-3. It's just plain epic, in my opinion; the very definition of class in travel.
Cheers,
Kennith
IMO at least half of those were morons inadvertently pretending to be in a B grade horror movie where you're part is to just hang on and scream without using any brain cells or survival instincts.
40 seconds...Sheesh.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/25/business/boeing-simulation-error.html
In Test of Boeing Jet, Pilots Had 40 Seconds to Fix Error
During flight simulations recreating the problems with the doomed Lion Air plane, pilots discovered that they had less than 40 seconds to override an automated system on Boeing’s new jets and avert disaster.
The pilots tested a crisis situation similar to what investigators suspect went wrong in the Lion Air crash in Indonesia last fall. In the tests, a single sensor failed, triggering software designed to help prevent a stall.
Once that happened, the pilots had just moments to disengage the system and avoid an unrecoverable nose dive of the Boeing 737 Max, according to two people involved in the testing in recent days. Although the investigations are continuing, the automated system, known as MCAS, is a focus of authorities trying to determine what went wrong in the Lion Air disaster in October and the Ethiopian Airlines crash of the same Boeing model this month.
The software, as originally designed and explained, left little room for error. Those involved in the testing hadn’t fully understood just how powerful the system was until they flew the plane on a 737 Max simulator, according to the two people.
Compounding the flaws, pilots received limited training about the system before the first crash. During the final minutes, the captain of the Lion Air flight flipped through a technical manual trying to figure out what was happening.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/25/business/boeing-simulation-error.html
In Test of Boeing Jet, Pilots Had 40 Seconds to Fix Error
During flight simulations recreating the problems with the doomed Lion Air plane, pilots discovered that they had less than 40 seconds to override an automated system on Boeing’s new jets and avert disaster.
The pilots tested a crisis situation similar to what investigators suspect went wrong in the Lion Air crash in Indonesia last fall. In the tests, a single sensor failed, triggering software designed to help prevent a stall.
Once that happened, the pilots had just moments to disengage the system and avoid an unrecoverable nose dive of the Boeing 737 Max, according to two people involved in the testing in recent days. Although the investigations are continuing, the automated system, known as MCAS, is a focus of authorities trying to determine what went wrong in the Lion Air disaster in October and the Ethiopian Airlines crash of the same Boeing model this month.
The software, as originally designed and explained, left little room for error. Those involved in the testing hadn’t fully understood just how powerful the system was until they flew the plane on a 737 Max simulator, according to the two people.
Compounding the flaws, pilots received limited training about the system before the first crash. During the final minutes, the captain of the Lion Air flight flipped through a technical manual trying to figure out what was happening.
Here's a very good read on 737 MAX's MCAS : http://www.b737.org.uk/mcas.htm
The story reminds me Michael Crichton's "Airframe."
The story reminds me Michael Crichton's "Airframe."
This is a fascinating and excellent read, relevant maybe tangentially but maybe directly:
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/business/2014/10/air-france-flight-447-crash
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/business/2014/10/air-france-flight-447-crash
Very disconcerting.It's disconcerting though
The PIC / Captain of that A330 spent all of FOUR HOURS actually flying the airplane in the ENTIRE YEAR leading to the crash, and so did two other pilots...
Makes me trust Southwest more than other airlines.