$74000 D90?!
- Thread starter Gumarcel
- Start date
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EricSiepmann
Guest
Yeah, I'd really want a grey market defender with a Disco VIN on it. Nothing like worrying constantly about Big Brother crushing it when they find out it is illegally in the country, or how the hell you're going to insure it.
The willow D-90 has been around the block. Someone else tried to sell the truck at the same price. Different dealer though.
The Camel trophy one is nice. Skytop is getting their federalization certificate, so at least you'll know it's legal.
EwS
The willow D-90 has been around the block. Someone else tried to sell the truck at the same price. Different dealer though.
The Camel trophy one is nice. Skytop is getting their federalization certificate, so at least you'll know it's legal.
EwS
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EricSiepmann
Guest
Gumarcel said:
It's titled as a disco 2, with 90k on the clock per CARFAX report. Which means it isn't legal - It's called VIN swapping. Just because he registered it with the state doesn't make it legal - it just means someone broke the law. Why would the Special Forces want to test something they already have? They have 110's similar to the wolf's (several of the LR mags have run articles about them over the years). It's some idiot trying to make a buck off someone else's ignorance. Finally, It still doesn't meet DOT regs and is running an engine that is not approved by the EPA.
EricSiepmann said:
If you're refering to the VIN that is listed in the eBay listing, vendor explains it in the Q&A:
"Q: Hi, what is the regestered VIN for the truck? Is it regestered/titled as a 2002? Could you fax me the actual 17 digit VIN? 603-559-9901 Thanks, RJ...
A: The truck is registered as a 2002 Defender SW 3 DOOR Diesel 5 cyl the actual vin on the truck is SALLDVB582A634634 This number would not go into the ebay...more"
In short, the VIN you clicked on in the listing is a dummy so that he could list the D90. Apparently eBay even knows you can't (normally) import a 2002 D90
Victor
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EricSiepmann
Guest
vabiro said:If you're refering to the VIN that is listed in the eBay listing, vendor explains it in the Q&A:
"Q: Hi, what is the regestered VIN for the truck? Is it regestered/titled as a 2002? Could you fax me the actual 17 digit VIN? 603-559-9901 Thanks, RJ...
A: The truck is registered as a 2002 Defender SW 3 DOOR Diesel 5 cyl the actual vin on the truck is SALLDVB582A634634 This number would not go into the ebay...more"
In short, the VIN you clicked on in the listing is a dummy so that he could list the D90. Apparently eBay even knows you can't (normally) import a 2002 D90
Victor
How would you title a 2002 Defender as a 2002 if they're illegal to import? VIN Swapped.
Gumarcel said:
yeah, but now you're dealing with an agent authorized to federalize the car...and that my friend, costs the big bucks.
there was an article on the HLRC page a while back, I think. Talked about a fella who imported and federalized his baby. Still this is mild compared to the VIN fraud on ebay. That aint a federalized truck, and the feds now know where it is. I bet it's seized and crushed inside 90 days. Illegal vehicles are much more difficult to deal with, as opposed to federalizing a machine upon import.
I wonder why nobody imports engine-less D-90s to the states as kits. Maybe some crew like Caterham of Lotus 7 fame will step up when production ends and buy the tooling to build complete rolling chassis.
The Caterham D110.
Lets start a rumor!!!
I wonder why nobody imports engine-less D-90s to the states as kits. Maybe some crew like Caterham of Lotus 7 fame will step up when production ends and buy the tooling to build complete rolling chassis.
The Caterham D110.
Lets start a rumor!!!
EricSiepmann said:
I don't think anyone other than you has suggested that the VIN on the actual vehicle has been changed.
In fact the vendor makes it quite clear that the VIN that he used to list the vehicle is not the actual VIN, and that the VIN is actually SALLDVB582A634634. No fraud, just the inability of eBay to accept the correct number.
I suspect the US Military have deep enough pockets to "federalize" the truck without resorting to VIN swapping.
Victor
BTW,
I just took a look on the Q&A, and it seems Eric isn't the only person asking questions about how legitimate the truck is, and here is the answer:
From Here
Q: Thanks for your lack of response. I'm a Law enforcement officer in Houston and when I contacted U.S. Customs, they questioned your possesion of this vehicle due to import laws. I now see why I did not rec'd a response. Answered on Oct-13-04
A: I have responded to over 50 emails in the past few days I am sorry you did not receive one go ahead and contact how you like you have no Idea who and what we are this car was imported buy us being Land Rover Special vehicles for the US gov it is sitting on our lot with over 45 new TD5 Defenders I am sure customs will love to here from you and funny you would be in Houston we have an office in Seabrook very small world if you have a legit question send it to us we will be more than happy to respond and what enforcement office would that be that you are associated with I am curious so please do not make idol threats
I just took a look on the Q&A, and it seems Eric isn't the only person asking questions about how legitimate the truck is, and here is the answer:
From Here
Q: Thanks for your lack of response. I'm a Law enforcement officer in Houston and when I contacted U.S. Customs, they questioned your possesion of this vehicle due to import laws. I now see why I did not rec'd a response. Answered on Oct-13-04
A: I have responded to over 50 emails in the past few days I am sorry you did not receive one go ahead and contact how you like you have no Idea who and what we are this car was imported buy us being Land Rover Special vehicles for the US gov it is sitting on our lot with over 45 new TD5 Defenders I am sure customs will love to here from you and funny you would be in Houston we have an office in Seabrook very small world if you have a legit question send it to us we will be more than happy to respond and what enforcement office would that be that you are associated with I am curious so please do not make idol threats
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EricSiepmann
Guest
vabiro said:
Why would the US military federalize a special forces vehicle? Airbags for hitting camels? ABS to avoid collision with terrorist truck bombs? Side impact protection while tooling around "harms way"? Have you read the regulations? www.eastcoastrover.com/imports.html follow the link. I implied the seller VIN Swapped. Not the US military. Why would they? I doubt the US military would even bother given they have 110 Wolfs. You can see one deploying from a Chinook in a recent recruiting commercial.
The entire auction is a fraud because once the vehicle is in private civilian hands it's immediately subject to DOT regulations. Which means that as a 2002 vehicle it would need a DOT importation sticker which is curiously missing from the auction info. So no, the military's deep pockets didn't foot the bill. There is no way aside from a registered importer who federalized the truck to legally own the truck in the US.
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Peter-man99
Guest
Panama Disco said:WTF
Over here a 1997 Defender 90 TD5 cost $15,000 more or less (depends on the truck) and a new 2004 Defender 90 TD5 full package (A/C, stereo, ABC, sunroof, etc) is around $42,000 USD
Peter
I saw that one one Ebay about 2 months ago I believe the starting bid was 69,000 but the reserve had not been met. The miles are low because (according to the ebay ad) it has never been owned. It had always been in the possesion of a dealer in the Maryland area. It was strictly a show car and not for sale up until it was placed on Ebay. When they were selling it, the miles were less than 1000 at the time. I copied a couple of pictures to my hard drive because I thought it was pretty cool, its definately the same one.
EricSiepmann said:
Thanks for the link to the ECR page. That was an excellent primer on the topic, and it didn't support your premise that this is not a Federalized vehicle, it merely said that it is difficult, and must be done by one of the "Registered Importers" listed.
Of all the things that would cause me alarm, the VIN issue is the last. I would be more concerned about the eBay account the vendor is using hasn't had a transaction since March, and never as a seller only buyer. Further he only has 5 feedbacks, not suffincient for me to send >$30,000 to.
Having said that it remains to be seen wether the vehicle does or doesn't have a DOT certificate. It is completely possable that he has petitioned for a "VCP" or "VSP" certification as outlined on the NHTSA Site here.
In the interest of making an informed comment on wether this is DOT certified I have sent an e-mail to the vendor asking:
"Dear sailingrovers,
Will the vehicle be supplied with the DOT importation sticker required for registration in the US and Canada?"
I'll post the response, if any.
In any case, obtaining the necessary DOT certification would probably have been done by the Military if it was to be driven on the street. I would think Land Rover Special Vehicles would happily add the necessary components if a deal with the US military were in the balance. What may not be cost effective for a few hundred civilian sales, may make a lot of sense for the scale and profile that a US military sale would represent. Adding air bags, cats and couple of other items would be small potatoes when compared for some of the things Land Rover have done.
Victor
I think the BEntly is pretty lame but thats my opinion.
I have seen that D-90 in the past, it was and Land Rover Asheville in North Carolina it was the last one imported so perhaps there is some value there but 74k is a joke.
I have seen that D-90 in the past, it was and Land Rover Asheville in North Carolina it was the last one imported so perhaps there is some value there but 74k is a joke.