98 Disco suddenly won't start - but we need it!

[jammin]

98 Disco suddenly won't start - FIXED!!!

UPDATED - FIXED!

Howdy... I lurk and read quite a bit, but have only posted one other time. I've done some searching, but need some help/ideas.

Only a few hours after running around town with it, it suddenly wouldn't start. Was behaving as if the battery was too low.

Poking around a bit I discovered that with the ignition in the off position and the key out, it was still as if it were turned to position II (power). The power windows would go up and down, for example. In other words, the ignition switch was screwy/hosed.

I've read about a lot of problems people have with them (sticking and not turning, interlock/w tranny not letting go, etc) and decided "to hell with it". I got a wiring diagram and some good 30amp toggle switches and a momentary button switch and just bypassed the whole thing.

So far so good... my new ignition switches are working. Switch 1 turns on ACC stuff, switch 2 turns on the power stuff, and switch 3 handles all of the power stuff that temporarily cuts out in position III while starting.

At this point I expected to charge the battery, fire it up, and be on my way... but no dice.

When I try I get a nice click with the momentary switch, so it seems to be working (sounds like the starter solenoid, just like it should) but it doesn't crank. As if it didn't have enough power. Charging the battery didn't help. My multimeter showed it at 13v or so. Jumpstarting wouldn't work. Of course I cleaned the terminals and connectors. Nothin'.

So I figure the battery might be toast and just not delivering enough amps even though the voltage is good. I bit the bullet today and grabbed a brand new optima redtop. (The 720cca costco carries. The old Interstate it had in it was way less than that.)

No difference at all. Crap.

The starter is only a few months old (the mounts had broken on the old one) so that shouldn't be it, either.

I've looked around for the fusible link that I read would keep it from getting enough juice, but I can't seem to find it. (It's dark and snowing outside, and can't get it in the garage because of 2 non-running project cars - a 67 mustang and 80 vette - taking up all of the space. Maybe I could find it in the daylight, but it's dark when I leave for work and dark again when I get back.)

We're brand new parents, and mom still works 2 days a week while grandma babysits... the only point being that for better or worse we do rely on this rig as our second daily vehicle and are a bit hosed without it. (Of course we play in the dirt/mud/snow with it too, just nothing too crazy that risks major breakage, since we need it.) Silly to rely too much on a Land Rover I know, but that's what we have and we love it as long as it is working... this is the first issue that's had me stumped.

Perhaps a bit too much information there... consider it a "hello, my name is..." introduction to go along with my help request.

Thanks!

 

[jammin]

That was dumb... typo on the model year. It's a 97.

 

[jammin]

Well I'm kinda bummed that I didn't get any replies, but maybe that's because there are a lot of posts with that kind of problem already. I found a bunch more that I didn't see before with some different search terms, such as "inline fuse" and "solenoid".

I owe some of you a bunch of thanks anyway, because I did find some good ideas and they helped a lot!

And I'm happy to report that THE SOB IS STARTING AND RUNNING AGAIN NOW!!!

Just in time, because the wife needs a car tomorrow, so she can take the other one while I take the Rover. *phew*

The "bypass the starter solenoid relay with a jumper" trick that cranks the starter regardless of all of the other potentially problematic crap (by bypassing it all) works like a charm and eliminated a bunch of possibilities. It wouldn't crank in my case, but that narrowed it down to the battery (already known to be good), the starter or solenoid (practically new in my case), a particular fuse (which was good), or the wiring (bingo).

For the record, the correct relay for a 97 D1 is different from the posts I found. According to the wiring diagram I had, the wires will be brown/white, brown/white, brown/red, and black/orange. Of course the diagram proved correct. You want to jumper the larger of the brown/white wires to the similarly sized brown/red wire. A piece of 14ga wire with standard male spade connectors on the ends fit in the relay connector sockets perfectly, and is probably a better idea than a paperclip if that option is available.

Turns out my cause was a corroded connector and cables at the positive battery terminal. With better light than I had last night I took another look at the cables and saw that the positive cable was looking pretty bad right where it was clamped into the terminal connector. The bolt for the cable that goes to the main fuse box under the hood was looking pretty sad, too.

Pulled them all apart, took a wire brush to everything, and put it all back. (Quite a bit of crud came out of the strands of the big cable.) She fired up instantly! I think I need to replace those cables soon but for now I'm good to go.

So thanks again guys, for this resource.

My only remaining potential problem is that my check engine light is on now. Anybody have any ideas what that might be, after all of this kind of work? Am I gonna have to go to a dealer (an hour away) to get it read, since they have their own proprietary OBDII or can most shops read something like that?

Thanks!

 

[barefoot]

you can take it to autozone and they will read the code for free or yoy can buy an obd2 scanner @ wally world or your fav auto store. harborfreight online has the cheapest that i am aware of. eitherway, it would be cheaper than having a dealer read it @ 50-100 a pop depending on your location.

i got mine at wally for $40.....you will need it again and again...go buy one!

enjoy!

 

[DiscoDwayne]

If you love Rovers.......and it sounds like you do......buy an OBD reader.

I think all the new Rovers should come with code readers. :rofl:

 

[jammin]

Thanks.

I know Knechts will read codes for free and it is close, so I took it there. They got the code but their reader just said "manufacturer specific drivetrain" or something like that. Weak.

I also know Oil Can Henry's (a bit further down the road) will read codes too, and have usually been able to tell me more than that, so I took it there. Thought they might have a better reader or access to more info.

Yep. The code was P1316 "Manufacturer controlled ignition system or misfire"... much more helpful. Made sense, too. I'd think I would notice any serious misfiring (I'm not), and I did just screw with the ignition, so there you go. They cleared it and it has stayed off so far through multiple starts.

I'm wondering if bypassing the relay with the jumper to crank the starter pissed my ECU off a bit, and it was just whining about it after the fact. We'll see if it comes back on...

I think I am going to get a reader, and am in shopping/research mode at the moment.

From what I understand a 97 D1 is ODBII compliant and uses the ISO protocol to talk (ISO9141-2/ISO14230-4). Are there any other gotchas I should know besides that?

I'm kindof eyeballing the ELM32x based stuff at www.scantool.net. I like the idea of being able to really dig in and see stuff with a computer. Only problem is most of my computers are linux, and my laptop is a Mac. The hardware will work, but the software is iffy. (There is 3rd party software for it that runs on my machines, but I've heard it is buggy and not well maintained.) I suppose I could put a copy of windows on my mac and run it in a virtual machine, but I'd rather not waste that much drive space unless I have to.

What somebody needs to make is a handheld unit (like the Innova/Equus 3100) based on the ELM327 chip, that can also pass the information through to a computer via usb or whatever. That'd be great for troubleshooting in situations where you wouldn't want to be packing a laptop, but have the additionaly functionality available for when you can use one. I'd buy that in a minute.