Air Rachet Talk.....

[F18Guy]

For years I have had a trusty 1/4 drive Blue Point air rachet (see pic 1) and just recently I have purchased the Snap-on IM3100 (see pic 2). Driving these items at home is a Craftsman air compressor that puts out enough air to make it happen. Lately, I have noticed that the 1/4 rachet is not powerful enough to break torque or properly secure fasteners; and the IM3100 is too big to get into tight spots. Hence, I am looking at a 3/8 drive air rachet that has a bit more power.

What are you folks using? Likes? Dislikes? Of course my catalog of crack has plenty of options

 

[MUSKYMAN]

I would vote for a replacement of your old trusty 1/4 drive blue point...sounds like it just got old and worn and now wont produce the torque needed.

I am not a huge fan of knocking stuff apart with air tools. yes they rule when you are working on pretty new large diameter stuff and on certain things like drive flanges and stuff that are hard to grab they are the only option. But I hate snapping off hardware and turning a fast job into a long tedius one. So thats why 1/4" drive would get my vote.

the one air ratchet that I always have liked is a flex headed 3/8" drive unit that a buddy of mine has. it is/was made by chicago pneumatic and it is small and handy and has always been a pretty handy tool. but it also is really small and has the power more of a 1/4" drive it seams.

 

[David Despain]

paul, how do u like that interchangable anvil impact? i have wanted that one for a few years now. its smaller than my 40 year old 1/2 chicago pneumatic impact that i inherited from my dad and would fit into smaller spaces on cars better. as for air ratchet i have not yet purchased this one but i think i will when funds allow. http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/prod...00050000100081&pid=00919900000&vertical=SEARS i like this one for the wobbly head insert. i dont know if the quality is as good as an IR or CP (although i doubt it) however i think for my use it would be just fine.

 

[F18Guy]

paul, how do u like that interchangable anvil impact?

David,

That is the coolest part of the gun. Literally, it takes me longer to find what drawer I have the other anvil in than it does to change it.

What got me going on this whole thing was last weekend....I helped a neighbor change a radiator in a older Caravan. The darn thing was like a puzzle with all the bolts mounted in so many hard to get to places. Areas too small for the IM, but great for the rachet......

 

[David Despain]

thats exactly the type of thing i want that ratchet for. i think the wobble anvil would work well in those situations. i know quite a few people that run that 1/4 " drive air ratchet from blue point u have. they are quite popular on the airport. they speed up engine removal by a factor of 10 when you have to take off hundreds of 1/4 inch bolts to get a pair of engines off. and they are low enough torque that with the air turned down you can run the bolts down and then go back and torque them on the install.

 

[F18Guy]

Absolutely. I used to have to remove button-head phillips screws off of H-60 helo panels and that 1/4 drive allowed me to complete a whole plane in a couple hours, solo.

 

[David Despain]

you know exactly what i mean

now correct me if im wrong and i know the marines do things differently, but every exmilitary guy i have ever worked with said they couldnt use air tools they had to do every thing with a speed handle. were/are u in maint or civillian contractor or line or depot?

 

[F18Guy]

You are correct. During my time in the Corps, we had to use speed handles. But after the Corps, I worked contract flight test maintenance and had to supply my own tools. When I worked H60 flight test, I used air for everytyhing. But when I went to V-22 Flight test I embraced the phenomenom of battery power

Every once in a while, people here talk about those battery powered Snap-on impacts.

 

[David Despain]

yeah i knew there was something more to you than the average military aircraft worker. i bet that was interesting work on the flight test of the v-22. anyways, funny u should mention that snap on cordless impact. a few years ago i bought the 9.6 volt one athat they dont sell anymore and there is a reason they dont sell it anymore. it just doesnt have the get up and go needed to break anything free or really tighten anything either. i think it has 50 ft lbs but that might be high. anyhow it just isnt really usefull for much. i got it to build up recip engines on the stand or crate before i installed them. it was going to speed up my work but never really worked out that way i usually ended up having to break the fastener free then move the socket over to the impact and finish the job. not really faster in the end. i decided to get that one over the more powerful 3/8 dr or 1/2 drive that was offered at the time for a couple of reasons. #1 i didnt need a huge impact for aircraft work and #2 they cost more and weighed more. the guy i work with has the (i think) 14v 3/8 drive and he loves it. but it does have lots more power. he used his to rebuild a cj6 from the frame up and used it for everything. the series they sell now is quite a bit different than the ones they used to have. i think IR makes a cordless now that does over 300 ft lbs. the tool makers have found a way to build them that almost replaces air guns for many applications. but they charge a premium for them.
as a side note i got the light in this pic at about the same time and my snap on man told me i could run the 12 volt batt i got with the light in the 9.6 impact with no worries. hope my picture works its the first time i have tried to do it.

 

[landrvrnut21]

I have the Milwaukee 18v 1/2" impact, and it will about tear your arm off. It has tons of power, and is great for changing tires especially on the trail. All my cordless (all my tools for that matter) tools are Milwaukee, so I have 5 batteries. When I go on a long trip Like MAR, I take My drill, sawzall, flashlight, impact, 5 bateries, charger and power invertor. It is a godsend at times.

Many Utility companies are going to the Milwaukee impact and getting rid of their old gas powered drills for boring 3/4" holes into telephone poles.

And if you have the money to burn, check out the new 28V Milwaukee line. They are Li-Ion batteries, so they last 10x longer, and the power doesnt fade. Everyone who has them so far will never look back.

Unfortuneately, I have too many 18v stuff, so I wont be switvhing over.

 

[David Despain]

yeah thats the worst part of cordless stuff the second you drop good coin on one they come out with a better lighter longer lasting battery etc. like when i bought a sawzall a while back i looked at the milwaukee line and the dewalt line and i wanted to get a big ol' combo pack as i was starting a home remodel. well i didnt want to spend the 5 or 6 hundred dollars on tools i was "only" going to be using regularly for 5 months or so. i was wrong i should have gotten a big combo pack and had all the same batteries and all the tools i needed. i knew better i just couldnt afford it at the time. instead i just bought a 90$ dewalt corded sawzall and made do with the other corded tools i already had. it worked in the end but it just wasnt same as all new cordless matching stuff and dragging cords around sucks espcially when you have a couple of breakers turned off. also i wish there was a way to get the power and battery life from a lighter weight 9.6 or 12 v as you can get from an 18v. the big stuff is just too heavy to use in most of the work i do.

 

[john]

Paul,

I'm glad you're digging the IM3100. I love mine (although we did break down and get an MG31 today).

For a 3/8" ratchet, I really like the FAR7200:

I love the rubber handle. It's not cold when I pick up the tool and it gives a very solid grip with slimy hands. I also love the button trigger. I much prefer the button over the lever. The button can be used like a rheostat and it's not pure on/off the way you might think with a button control. You can feather this air ratchet with great control. You can also hold the ratchet firmly with your last three fingers without accidentally triggering the ratchet. With the lever actuation, you have to old the ratchet in an unnatural manner and a limp grip, which I don't like.

This ratchet also has very good power. We use it all the time to compress springs with Mike Farr's KLANN spring compressor during OME installs.

This ratchet is very large and heavy though, and it can be tiring to use. More and, I find myself using the FAR25:

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...d=2819&supersede=&store=snapon-store&tool=all​

The FAR25 is a superb ratchet. It's very small and lightweight and surprisingly powerful. It's powerful enough that I find myself using the FAR7200 only for things like TJM bumper installs and OME installs, and using the FAR25 for what seems like everything else.

The FAR25 has the lever-type of actuation. I prefer the button but this lever works just fine. If this unit had a rubber handle and button trigger, I would be in heaven.

Rand also released recently its 1215Ti baby ratchet:

I haven't used that unit, so I don't know how good or bad it is. From the looks of it, I like the selector better than the selectors on the FAR7200 and FAR25. This selector would be perfect if the directions were reversed and matched the selector on Snap-on high strength sealed ratchets, but I guess you can't have everything. If this unit is as light as the Rand Ti impacts, it probably would feel like a feather. The handle looks slippery though.


David, your tools are sweet. You even have the bitchin sprayer. I love those sprayers. I'm also glad to see I'm not the only one with the Snap-on Mechanix gloves:

Also, nice stubby rack.

 

[F18Guy]

Seeing the FAR7200 in your hand helps me gauge the real size of these 3/8 rachets. One thing I have noticed, is that the smaller you go in the 3/8 category, the less torque available. So maybe the trade-off of the FAR7200 being a bit heavy is the great torque offered.

Thoughts?

 

[Ian95rrc]

Hey David,

Who makes your roll cart? That yellow looks like Snap-on but I have an identical cart by Matco. I was kinda disapointed in the finish of my yellow Matco.

 

[David Despain]

Hey David,

Who makes your roll cart? That yellow looks like Snap-on but I have an identical cart by Matco. I was kinda disapointed in the finish of my yellow Matco.

its a snap on. (actually i think blue point) i got it in feb of 04. at the time it was the latest and greatest, but its not made by them and the others have identical carts mac, cornwell, matco. i really like it. it works great for me, almost all of what i need to do 80% of my tasks fits on there nicely and almost all of the remaining 20% i know what i will need to get from my big box and toss on there. the drawers dont slide as well as i would like but its not a full blown tool box its a cart so i just make sure i push straight in and not from the sides and no problems.

 

[David Despain]

john, that stubby rack kicks so much ass. i just love it. if (when) i ever get a set of stubby metrics (which might happen soon if i have to get a beater import to comute in) i will get another stubby rack just like it. the snap-on mechanixs gloves dont cost anymore than the same gloves anywhere else and then u can buy them on payments with no interest along with all the other purchases for the week plus they look better than the mechanix wear branded ones. i had to buy corwell ones a few weeks ago since we still dont have a snap-on man and they just dont fit as well. i forget who makes them but its not mechanix. that sprayer is just a zep sprayer but now that u mention it it has lasted like 5 years or so spraying isopropyl alchohol (sp?).

so you like the button better than the paddle for slow speed control? do u think that because of the better grip on the ratchet it allows for better control of the button?

 

[john]

Seeing the FAR7200 in your hand helps me gauge the real size of these 3/8 rachets. One thing I have noticed, is that the smaller you go in the 3/8 category, the less torque available. So maybe the trade-off of the FAR7200 being a bit heavy is the great torque offered. Thoughts?

That seems to be the case. As you can see in that FAR25 link, the torque is 25 ft. lbs. Here are the specs on the FAR7200:

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...2&group_ID=806&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog​

The torque is 70 ft. lbs. in standard mode and 50 ft. lbs. in stealth mode. (Like the IM3100, the FAR7200 has a stealth mode.) So the FAR7200 is three times as powerful if the power figures are accurate.

Here's another 3/8" ratchet:

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...6&group_ID=806&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog​

That ratchet looks to be a 1/4" ratchet but fitted with a 3/8" anvil. The torque spec on that is only 30 ft. lbs., barely more than the much smaller FAR25.

If I had to choose only one ratchet between the FAR7200 and the FAR25, I think I would choose the FAR25. It's very light and short in length, so it's easier to use for me. I like the air ratchet for repetitive jobs, like removing lots of small screws. With the FAR25, 1/4" magnetic hex bit holder, T25 Torx bit, Pozidriv #3 bit, and a 10mm socket, I can zip off a Disco2 front fender very quickly for a snorkel install. My motorcycle also has lots of Torx screws for the numerous body panel pieces and getting all of them off is a lot faster with the FAR25. I don't use the FAR7200 for those types of tasks. I find that the shorter distance between my hand and the bit makes indexing bits onto fasteners easier than with the longer and heavier FAR7200.

However, I don't use the FAR25 for tighter or larger fasteners, as it doesn't have the power. I use the FAR7200 for these jobs. The 70 ft. lbs. is pretty powerful. And if a fastener is too tight, I just depress the trigger all the way and crank the FAR7200 like a hand ratchet to loosen the fastener a bit before the air takes over and spins the fastener loose.

Fortunately, I don't have to have only one air ratchet. So we have both.

 

[john]

David,

I'm glad you're digging the stubby rack. I really like them too.

We also see eye-to-eye on the Snap-on Mechanix gloves. They cost the same as regular Mechanix gloves but don't have the crazy vinyl logos on the back. And the guy brings them to your door too, so no more online ordering or driving to Pep Boys for gloves.

I haven't seen the Cornwell gloves, as we don't have a Cornwell dealer. Maybe the Cornwell gloves were made by Ringers? My black Matco gloves are made by Ringers. They're not bad but I prefer the thinner Mechanix gloves. I think the MAC gloves are also Mechanix gloves, so if you have a MAC guy you can always get your gloves from him.

Yeah, I prefer the button. I can't say the button is "better" than the lever. It probably just comes down to personal preference. I'm sure the guys who have been using the lever-actuated ratchets for a long time prefer the lever. I'm accustomed to shooting, so I prefer the button. I think it's easier to control than the lever, at least for me, because I'm accustomed to using my trigger finger for fine motor movements but not my last three fingers for fine motor movements. That just feels odd to me. Also, the button trigger lets me get a firm (but not tight) and comfortable grip on the ratchet and I don't need to limp-hold the tool to prevent inadvertently triggering it. I think the bit or socket attached to the ratchet also indexes better/faster/more easily with a normal grip on the ratchet's handle instead of a weird grip. My forearm also gets less tired this way on longer jobs when I don't have to hold the ratchet in a weird manner with my fingers extended slightly to prevent accidentally depressing the lever. Again, that's just me and what I'm used to.

 

[john]

Oh, one more reason I prefer the button trigger to the lever is when you're reaching for a fastener in a funky angle, and you have to use your thumb to depress the trigger. In that situation, I think the ratchet is more comfortable to hold if it has the button trigger. In this situation, you can encircle the ratchet's handle with your palm and four fingers and use the thumb to depress the button trigger. With the lever, you sort of have to hold the ratchet in a U and then depress the lever with your thumb. Not a huge deal but I think there is a difference for me. When you're tightening or loosening and the fastener is tight and the handle wants to swing under power, I think ratchet is easier to control with a normal grip instead of a U-shaped grip. It's also less tiring over time this way, at least for me.

 

[MUSKYMAN]

you can encircle the ratchet's handle with your palm and four fingers

wow...some pretty graphic descriptions there