Any Mauser experts here?

sven

Well-known member
Hi,
I've just inherited by grandpas gun collection recently. One of them is a Mauser thats been sporterized. Its got a bunch of markings on it, on top it reads "Erfurt 1917" and on the side it says "KAR 98". I was doing a crap load of internet searches but Im not sure what Im looking for exactly. What caliber of round does it shoot? It says 7.91 on the barrel which some sites claim is the same as 8mm (8X57). Does this sound right? Where can I buy this caliber round? Any online sites that sell bulk ammo?
Thanx
 

Kavic

Well-known member
Nov 2, 2004
1,216
0
Ashburn, VA
Sounds like 8mm to me. I'll check mine when I get home. If it is, I've been buying my 8mm ammo at WalMart.
 

dirtyjim

Well-known member
Apr 28, 2004
244
0
drunk, in a bar(alvin,texas)
your mauser was made at government arsenal at Erfurt,Germany. being dated 1917 makes it ww1 production & adds to the value.if its you gradpas gun it may not be import marked, also adds to the value as any non-original marking decrease the value of millitary weapons.you can use any 8mmX57 ammo i would suggest S&B for factory loaded ammo but surplus millitary ammo is very cheap romanian 8mm is going for about $33 for a 380rd case & 8mm yugo is going for about $65 for 900rds, but surpluss ammo is usually corrosive, no problem just spray some windex down the barrel as soon as your finished shooting.
now for the big question, how was it sporterized & does the bolt & other componets match, the germans liked to mark every part on the rifle?hopefully it was not drilled & taped for a scope,reblued & re-barreled or had the barrel cut down.if it was just put in a sporter stock or butchered millitary stock i would restore it to millitary condition.if its been rebarreled, reblued & drilled & tapped shoot it & have fun, you have a nice piece of history.
you can get more info on the curio & relic firearms forum its very helpfull site & my usual hangout
 

sven

Well-known member
dirtyjim said:
now for the big question, how was it sporterized

Wow thanks for the info. From what I can tell its a factory stock thats been cut down. The top stock piece is missing. The safety is the one designed for scope (doesnt swing as far as the original). The sights are made by Lyman. I'll try and post up some pics tonight. I just wanna make sure that it hasnt been recalibered to some other size than the original 8mm. (dont wanna hurt myself) Ive read on some of those sites that its common to see mausers converted to 30-06, etc.
 

Kavic

Well-known member
Nov 2, 2004
1,216
0
Ashburn, VA
Sven, Sounds like you found your expert.

Hijack...

Jim, Do you use much of that surplus ammo? I've never used it. Always been worried about the quality of it. I've just used Remmington 8mm Mauser ammo and handloads. My dad and I both got our first deer with the same 8mm Mauser, my son had his chance but he let it go, of course he still could... The cool thing about that is my dad's was a 6 point, mine a 7 point and my son let the 8 point run to me, oops.

My dad has a 7mm with all the matching numbers you referred to but the 8mm isn't marked as nicely. He just finished modifying the 7mm because he couldn't take the weight anymore. He just asked me to get it sighted in for him for this deer season.
 

dirtyjim

Well-known member
Apr 28, 2004
244
0
drunk, in a bar(alvin,texas)
Sven,
if it still has the original millitary stepped barrel it will almost always still be in 8mm, fn model 1950 mausers were 30-06 & are marked .30 on the back of the receiver & 30-06 on the barrel.some south american contract rifles were converted to 308 by facing off 1 turn of the barrel threads & turning the shoulder back by the same amount, then reaming the chamber to 308.the problem with those guns was a 308 win. uses a .308 dia. bullet 8mm uses a .323dia. bullet ,accurate to 50 yards at best.you can have a gunsmith cast the chamber & tell you if its 8mm. if it still has the stepped barrel i would try to restore it to millitary condition.you can get the stock & handguard for around $75, plug the holes from the lyman receiver sight & re-install original sights.

mike,
i use alot of the surplus ammo i get most of mine from AIM SOG centerfire systems & century century has a $75 minimum order policy so i usually try to order a gun & ammo at the same time from them.i would use S&B ammo for hunting,S&B is loaded a little hotter than most american ammo.the major US ammo manufactures tend to down load 7mm & 8mm mauser ammo.
 

mikemeyer0

Well-known member
Apr 13, 2005
1,141
0
42
Las Vegas, NV
does it look like this?

mauser_k98_r.jpg


And does the the reciver look like this

Erfurt1917.jpg
 
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dirtyjim

Well-known member
Apr 28, 2004
244
0
drunk, in a bar(alvin,texas)
good looking gun

whoever sporterized that gun did a fine job on it, unlike alot of the bubbafied monstrosities i've come across.it is the original barrel, its serial #ed to the receiver, but i couldn't tell from the pics if it was stepped or is someone put it in a lathe & contoured it like a modern barrel.if its still stepped & not cut down i would return it to millitary condition.if its been contoured i would shoot the hell out of it.
 

john

Well-known member
Jesus.

Mike Meyer 98 Disco LSE, what on Earth makes you think this Erfurt Mauser is Turkish?

Jimmy, how could that thing ever be returned to military spec? Let's ignore the blatantly visible barrelband front sight and patently visible removal of the rear sight mount. If you can't see these things, then I'm not sure what you're looking at. Ignore that stuff for now. This rifle has Ruger-like M77 bolt knob on it. How on earth could this be restored to original? The rifle has a Williams aperture sight mounted on the rear receiver ring, which required drilling and tapping. The front receiver ring has been drilled and tapped for telescope mounts. Whatever has been done to that rifle is irreparable. God knows what else has been done to that rifle that isn't patently visible. For example, the trigger doesn't look like a two-stage military trigger to me. How could this thing ever be returned to military condition?

Sven, just shoot it and enjoy it for what it is: a cheap shit beater plinker. Get a competent gunsmith to make a chamber and bore casting of it to determine its true caliber and then take it from there. If the weapon is iffy, leave it as a wall-hanger.
 

sven

Well-known member
dirtyjim said:
whoever sporterized that gun did a fine job on it, unlike alot of the bubbafied monstrosities i've come across.

Thanks man. Talked to my Dad last night, he thinks grandpa had this done either late 60's early 70's by a local (upstate NY) gunsmith. Im thinking of keeping it the way it is as I dont plan to sell any of the guns he gave me. The only thing I may do is bolt on a scope since its "pre-drilled" already. Cant wait to test 'er out at the range. Probably hasnt been shot since the early 80's.

I also have a 3 barrel German drilling. Anyone know anything about these?
 

dirtyjim

Well-known member
Apr 28, 2004
244
0
drunk, in a bar(alvin,texas)
john said:
Jesus.


Jimmy, how could that thing ever be returned to military spec? Let's ignore the blatantly visible barrelband front sight and patently visible removal of the rear sight mount. If you can't see these things, then I'm not sure what you're looking at. Ignore that stuff for now. This rifle has Ruger-like M77 bolt knob on it. How on earth could this be restored to original? The rifle has a Williams aperture sight mounted on the rear receiver ring, which required drilling and tapping. The front receiver ring has been drilled and tapped for telescope mounts. Whatever has been done to that rifle is irreparable. God knows what else has been done to that rifle that isn't patently visible. For example, the trigger doesn't look like a two-stage military trigger to me. How could this thing ever be returned to military condition?

Sven, just shoot it and enjoy it for what it is: a cheap shit beater plinker. Get a competent gunsmith to make a chamber and bore casting of it to determine its true caliber and then take it from there. If the weapon is iffy, leave it as a wall-hanger.

if the barrel is still stepped it could very easily be returned to millitary condition.
remove the barrel band front sight & repalce with an original military front sight, they are soldered on & would cover where the barrel band was. add a military rear sight, its on a sleeve that is soldered onto the barrel.replace the sportered bolt with a military bolt.replace the trigger with a military trigger. plug the holes fron the reciver sight, browells sells them.then get a military stock & hardware.for around $120 it could be returned to military condition. none of the parts are hard to get or expensive.
i could have it all in the mail by the end of the day.
you obviously don't know anything about military weapons or sporterizing them.
 

john

Well-known member
dirtyjim said:
you obviously don't know anything about military weapons or sporterizing them.


It's hilarious, you talk as if knowing a lot about sporterizing military weapons is somehow a good thing. It's not. It's knowing a lot about gun butchery. How is that something to be proud of? Sporterizing is the cheap fuck way of getting a sporter. I'm not talking here about Theodore Roosevelt's Sporterized Springfield or a Rigby .275 Mauser. Rather, I'm talking about rifles like the one Sven just inherited. It's the cheap fuck way of getting a sporter.

Yeah, I know nothing about military rifles and sporterizing them. You see, I'm of the school that says if you want a sporter, buy a sporter. Don't buy a $100 surplus rifle and then butcher it to try to make it into a sporter. Just buy a sporter if you want a sporter. A Winchester Model 70 is hardly expensive.


dirtyjim said:
if the barrel is still stepped it could very easily be returned to millitary condition. remove the barrel band front sight & repalce with an original military front sight, they are soldered on & would cover where the barrel band was. add a military rear sight, its on a sleeve that is soldered onto the barrel.


Yeah, I'm a real idiot when it comes to sporterizing military weapons. But at least I know when to give up. So if the barrel hasn't been reprofiled/tapered, the rear sight and front sight barrelbands can be soldered back on. If you went this route, you would have to buy the rear sight and front sight barrelbands, and then buy the rear and front sights. Then you would have to have a gunsmith solder on the barrelbands. Let me qualify that: you would have to find a gunsmith who was willing to do the job and not tell you that you're wasting your money because you're going to spend more on the rifle than the rifle is worth. He's also going to tell you that the rifle will never be back to military condition because it has already been refinished once and the rifle will have to be refinished again after the soldering job.


dirtyjim said:
replace the sportered bolt with a military bolt.replace the trigger with a military trigger.


OK, so if you want to burn more money on returning this weapon to military condition, we can add the cost of a bolt and installation. Unless by some miracle of coincidence the headspace was perfect, the rifle would have to be breeched all over again. And if all the planets aligned and a replacement bolt went right in, the numbers wouldn't match anyway.

Note that I'm not collector-frenzied with matching numbers and whatnot. But I do know that returning a sporterized rifle to "military condition" is a waste of time when the rifle isn't collectable and the numbers aren't going to match any way.


dirtyjim said:
plug the holes fron the reciver sight, browells sells them.


Yeah, that would look great. Just imagine a military Mauser with four plugs screwed into receiver rings. I suppose you think that if all of the screws were timed, that would be a classy touch.

No. No matter how you slice it, this rifle is what it is. It's a beater plinker and it should remain that way. For that purpose, it's a very good rifle (assuming it's in shootable condition). It can never be returned to military condition, no matter how much money is poured into the project.

Even if a master gunsmith were to weld in the holes drilled into the receiver rings, those built-up areas would not match action material once the rifle was refinished. Also, the tooling marks surrounding the holes would necessarily have to smoothed as the welding is filed down and the rifle is refinished yet again.

I'm also guessing that whoever sporterized that rifle lapped the locking lugs, bolt raceways, camming surfaces, and the extractor loop. I'm sure this is all the rage in the sporterizing world, but it's butchery on a military rifle and the rifle can never really be returned to its original state. What are you going to do, add the tooling marks back on? How on earth would you do that?

Even if a master gunsmith were to weld on a new bolt handle and bolt knob that perfectly mimics the original in every way, the bolt would still have been refinished two separate times. If the jeweling on the bolt body is thick enough, it might even require re-hardening the bolt after the jeweling has been removed fully.

Even if a master gunsmith were to restore the original sights, the barrel will have been refinished two separate times.

And even if all of the foregoing could be done (it can't), why spend that kind of time and money on a $100 rifle? Why not just shoot it and enjoy it a as a hand-me-down from your father, who got it from his father? In that way, this Mauser ain't all that bad. However, it is what it is. It's not collectable enough to do any kind of restoration. Even if it were restored, it still wouldn't be worth anything as any kind of restoration work on military weapons, no matter how skillfully and artfully done, makes them worth less, not more. Just treat this rifle for what it is: a beater plinker/shooter.

Your "i could have it all in the mail by the end of the day" is hilarious. I can only imagine what this rifle would look like after it was sporterized and then "restored" by you. It would look way worse than it does now. Just leave well enough alone. The damage is done. Just shoot the rifle and enjoy it.
 

dirtyjim

Well-known member
Apr 28, 2004
244
0
drunk, in a bar(alvin,texas)
john you have got to be the stupidest mother fucker i've ever come across when it comes to sporterizing or restoring military weapons. perhaps you should go to all the firearm & gunsmithing boards & educate all the people who do this kind of work every day, including me.i could sell your retard ass any of my restored masusers or 03's & you would never fucking know.when the ups truck pulls up infront of my house 90% of the time it has guns & gun parts because thats what i fucking do.if you had ever worked on or built any of your own guns you could see all the errors in your last post.

and just incase you didn't know why svens gun should be restored, you don't have a fucking clue do you, its because its wartime production. if your going to sporterize a milsurp use pre-war or post-war not wartime production
 
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