seventyfive said:
the absolute last GBR part that came off my truck was this. everything is swapped over to ashcroft and kam.
How are you liking the KAM stuff? I saw some of their products, nice looking stuff. Haven't had any experience with it yet.
ARB vs Ashcroft
- Thread starter DiscoPhoto
- Start date
How are you liking the KAM stuff? I saw some of their products, nice looking stuff. Haven't had any experience with it yet.
nosivad_bor said:I don't think GBR is bad. Dan is pissed because the guy charged a high mark up as an exclusive supplier. I actually respect that, as it was good business sense. I think it's ridiculous that smaller guys came in and undercut him so bad and ruined the market. fools.
Bill did react badly to the loss of his market share and tried to play the value card. Problem was he wasn't providing that much value. Again, I think he was probably pissed because his competitors ruined the market.
Now it's all about the best price for the overland wannabe white trash, like Dan
Rob, how is it good business sense to have margins so high that it actually encourages competition? He was thinking short term. You have to admit that GBRs prices were fucking insane.
The LR market is relatively small and if he would have just kept his margins to the point where they weren't obscene, he would have most likely discouraged others from getting in business in the first place.
nosivad_bor said:I don't think GBR is bad. Dan is pissed because the guy charged a high mark up as an exclusive supplier. I actually respect that, as it was good business sense. I think it's ridiculous that smaller guys came in and undercut him so bad and ruined the market. fools.
Bill did react badly to the loss of his market share and tried to play the value card. Problem was he wasn't providing that much value. Again, I think he was probably pissed because his competitors ruined the market.
Now it's all about the best price for the overland wannabe white trash, like Dan
Actually, it goes back farther than that. Back to about 2002 or 2003 when I tried to get axles. They were out of stock of course. I bought the Rovertracks axles that everyone told me I'd regret since GBR's axles were unavailable. I'm still running those Rovertracks axles today.
Bill's mark up was not only high, it was outrageous. Remember the $1,800 CV's and axles?
Then somewhere around 2006 or 2007, the cat was out of the bag that Rockford Acromatic was making/building the CV's and axles for Bill and Bill was only a reseller so folks like Thom Mathy and Bobby Long got into the Rover axles market. It was short lived for those guys, though, because Bill threw a fit like a little bitch. I got my current CV's and axles from Thom for something like $700. It all bit Bill in the ass when these guys found out there was more than one way to build an axle.
....and along came Lucky 8. What blew my mind is that L8 could sell the exact same Ashcroft products for 50% less than what Bill was selling them for, AND offer a warranty. (not to mention the back history between L8 and GBR)
I'm not sure where it is, but there has got to a line between having a high markup because it makes good business sense, and taking advantage of people.
Mike_Rupp said:
If they were insane no one would have been buying it. The alternative was broken parts out on the trail. Seems like a good value when you look at it like that. he had an exclusive market and people payed the price they had to.
I think Bill expected competition one day and though they might come in 20% under his price or something reasonable. But the competition undercut the price so significantly that people actually doubted it was as good of a product at first, and bill fucked up and claimed it wasn't. But that's life, competition happened, the consumer got a lower price and Bill had to change his business model.
Rob, I remember the $1800 axles / CV days. I didn't buy them. That's the point. Sure, Bill sold a few pairs, but I'm sure that plenty of people chose to simply run the stock stuff and bring spares.
DiscoPhoto said:
My advice would be to run Ashcroft above all else where ever possible. Their gear is very good, and their lockers (Air and TT's) are exceptional. Shipping is pretty uneventful with them, they'll ship same day through TNT (hand-off to Purolator once it crosses the Pond) who can also handle the brokerage if you choose.
Regarding axles, I would not run a full locker on a stock Disco axle, especially with oversized tires. It won't last at all. You can get away with a limited slip type like a TrueTrac due to the fact that its never 100% locked. This is assuming the tires are not huge either. But you're still taking your chances.
One option may be to run an Ashcroft TrueTrac up front as your axles are much less at risk that way, and the TT's work really well with the Disco traction control. TT's are also a life-of-vehicle product, repairs are pretty uncommon. then upgrade the axle as your budget allows.
That's a good first post if I've ever seen one haha. Thanks for your input. I'm awaiting my new diffs and looking to move on another Aschroft ASAP.
I was just thinking about this a bit more and based on where you are at currently with your build, thought I would offer a suggestion on how one might stage the build up. If I am reading your original post correctly you currently have an Ashcroft air locker rear, with 4.11 gearing, but no HD axles. Front is still stock.
1) Upgrade rear axles to HD. With a full locker on the rear and larger tires you will be putting stresses on the rear axles that they cannot handle. Stock axles turn into shrapnel a bit over 3000 ft/lbs, and you can get there very quickly fully locked on a rough trail. Besides, a full locker in the rear with a HD axles will get you through a lot of stuff, and with the HD axles it will be very solid and reliable.
2) Add Truetrac to the front. This will also address the 2-pin diff limitation, and as mentioned above you can go this route without an axle upgrade to start. Works very well with traction control
3) upgrade front axles/CV's to HD. That would be the final step.
If you were doing harder core stuff you could look at pegging the diffs at some point after the above is completed, but that would really depend on how you are using the vehicle. Its a bit of overkill unless you are really stessing the diffs.
1) Upgrade rear axles to HD. With a full locker on the rear and larger tires you will be putting stresses on the rear axles that they cannot handle. Stock axles turn into shrapnel a bit over 3000 ft/lbs, and you can get there very quickly fully locked on a rough trail. Besides, a full locker in the rear with a HD axles will get you through a lot of stuff, and with the HD axles it will be very solid and reliable.
2) Add Truetrac to the front. This will also address the 2-pin diff limitation, and as mentioned above you can go this route without an axle upgrade to start. Works very well with traction control
3) upgrade front axles/CV's to HD. That would be the final step.
If you were doing harder core stuff you could look at pegging the diffs at some point after the above is completed, but that would really depend on how you are using the vehicle. Its a bit of overkill unless you are really stessing the diffs.
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You can lock a TruTrac 100% (meaning both wheels turning at the same rate, with one up in the air), and you can break an axle with a TruTrac. I've already replaced one front and one rear axle.TM_ said:
Trutracs and detroits suck. If you don't have selectable and have a clue how to spin tires you deserve what you cheaply paid for.
Will you guys please stop being such a bunch of cheap fucks.
Will you guys please stop being such a bunch of cheap fucks.
I didn't suggest you _can't_ break an axle with a TT, you most certainly can, and I've been present to several such instances. But the rear is the most vulnerable here (granted if you drive like a moron you can blow anything apart). What I was suggesting was, based on where he is at already (full locker rear, stock axle rear, front entirtely stock), that a HD axle in the rear should be the priority. That is where you are going to see the most load and thuis the greatest likelihood of a failure, not on the front under the current setup.
Ideally I would do the TT and HD axle at the same time on the front. However if one is trying to work around a budget then staging them is going to be of limited risk. HD axles first on the front would be the safest path, then TT's, no question.
Ideally I would do the TT and HD axle at the same time on the front. However if one is trying to work around a budget then staging them is going to be of limited risk. HD axles first on the front would be the safest path, then TT's, no question.
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seventyfive said:
Why, a TT is perfectly selectable. The switch is that thick pedal under your left foot.
Where's fun in that?seventyfive said:
I don't have much interest in running a LSD style or non-selectable diff. I was mainly looking for input regarding Ashcroft vs. ARB, sounds like I'll be looking at another Ashcroft. Might wait on that and get the HD shafts first though. I go trail riding once a week/every two weeks, and don't spin my tires much unless I'm trying to prevent a bad situation. I'll get HD rear Ashcroft shafts on order soon.
Thanks again guys,
Zack
Thanks again guys,
Zack
p m said:
Peter,
The only downside to double footing (personally I learned how to drive double foot so it's how I even street drive)
is when you run out of boost/hard pedal.
LSD lockers are great for a certain style of wheeling, I would definitely put them in a mild truck. But I like having the control in slippery rocky conditions. I don't like heavy throttle (there is definitely a time when I do!) to get up stuff and then the rear kicking out or the front kicking over.
My previous comment is out of frustration towards NOT starting with HD axles before anything How many times have you been on a trail watching someone spinning tires to lock up a Detroit only to hear that spinning tire finally catch and shear splines?
We know spending big money on axles isn't as sexy as something you can look at every time you see your truck but axles should be the FIRST investment you make.
I have ARB's front and rear in my Disco1. I have replaced the quad rings in the seal housing twice on the front and they are leaking again. I would look at the Ashcroft seriously just for that reason.
FWIW I have broken one front CV in 3 years with lockers and 1 rear axle before getting the lockers.
Dan
FWIW I have broken one front CV in 3 years with lockers and 1 rear axle before getting the lockers.
Dan
I don't doubt for a microsecond that HD axles have to come before a Detroit. TT is easier on the drivetrain, but ultimately one stock axleshaft cannot support the entire vehicle on the cliffside.seventyfive said:
But, going back in time, I doubt such an unsexy thing as HD axles would be my first investment ... With the Disco, IIRC it was sliders.