Yes but were not talking about bolts. We're talking about super hardened, spring like, fine threaded studs, washers, and nuts using specialized thread lube. A completely different animal.
ARP Headgasket Oil Leak
- Thread starter ERover82
- Start date
pinkytoe69 said:
Yea I see one the lr4x4 thread. "must be true if it's on the internet" I'm sure you've seen the commercial. Sounds like the majority of folks havent had any issues with them, some even over torquing them. Sounds like the block or the person doing the installation may have possibly been the issue and not the studs? I'm neither an advocate of studs or bolts but so far I have only used bolts and they seem to do the trick just fine.
Yeah, that one and there are a couple others as well. Mostly on the euro LR boards.
I only know cause I started researching this stuff last week. While drilling out that broken manifold stud I saw an antifreeze leak coming from above the starter somewhere. *sigh*
I only know cause I started researching this stuff last week. While drilling out that broken manifold stud I saw an antifreeze leak coming from above the starter somewhere. *sigh*
iirc 80ft/lbs "wet" lubricated pulled the stud right out, because it is alot more torque than 80 "dry"...
the 65ft/lbs was lubed with their stuff as I recall.
i thought it was normal to re-torque the arp's after break in?
what was the torque of the old non stretch bolt head bolts?
the 65ft/lbs was lubed with their stuff as I recall.
i thought it was normal to re-torque the arp's after break in?
what was the torque of the old non stretch bolt head bolts?
http://arpinstructions.com/instructions/124-4003.pdf
The above instructions are the same that come printed in the box. They clearly state 80 ftlb wet with ARP thread lube (included).
I retorqued all the studs today and in doing so realized a big problem with the ARP studs. If we are evidently required to retorque after an engine cycle that means disassembling the intake, throttle linkage, driver side exhaust manifold (in the way of socket on stud), vacuum, coolant, and fuel lines, plug wires, scraping off RTV, buying new gaskets, and reassembling it all. Who the hell wants to do this all over again right after an already pain in the ass head gasket job or rebuild.
To complicate things more, there seems to be a complete split in opinion whether they pull threads or not and why. Both TTY bolts and these studs have issues and if I was rebuilding another engine I'm not sure what I'd do.
At least we can agree I'm an idiot, for declaring a part which was dropped from 3 feet and shattered into several pieces because it was barely glued together, is shit when all the rest of the non-PR2 Allmakes shit is shit too. I then purchased a non-shit genuine part which was clearly better quality and have enjoyed it since.
The above instructions are the same that come printed in the box. They clearly state 80 ftlb wet with ARP thread lube (included).
I retorqued all the studs today and in doing so realized a big problem with the ARP studs. If we are evidently required to retorque after an engine cycle that means disassembling the intake, throttle linkage, driver side exhaust manifold (in the way of socket on stud), vacuum, coolant, and fuel lines, plug wires, scraping off RTV, buying new gaskets, and reassembling it all. Who the hell wants to do this all over again right after an already pain in the ass head gasket job or rebuild.
To complicate things more, there seems to be a complete split in opinion whether they pull threads or not and why. Both TTY bolts and these studs have issues and if I was rebuilding another engine I'm not sure what I'd do.
At least we can agree I'm an idiot, for declaring a part which was dropped from 3 feet and shattered into several pieces because it was barely glued together, is shit when all the rest of the non-PR2 Allmakes shit is shit too. I then purchased a non-shit genuine part which was clearly better quality and have enjoyed it since.
dont know.
but allmakes and britpart parts suck balls. NEVER have i had one actually work or a seal actually seal...
but allmakes and britpart parts suck balls. NEVER have i had one actually work or a seal actually seal...
It does not say lubricate the threads going into the block. You put the studs in the block dry and hand tight. You misread the instructions.
With engine in the truck you put the head gasket on the block, then the heads, then put the studs in dry and hand tight. Then lube the exposed threads both sides of the washer then put the nuts on. Torque to 20-50-80 in proper sequence.
MAKE ABSOLUTELY SURE the threads in the block are dry, chased, and clean. fwiw we haven't needed to retorque studs or bolts...if it was a high performance high horsepower motor then I could see checking torque.
With engine in the truck you put the head gasket on the block, then the heads, then put the studs in dry and hand tight. Then lube the exposed threads both sides of the washer then put the nuts on. Torque to 20-50-80 in proper sequence.
MAKE ABSOLUTELY SURE the threads in the block are dry, chased, and clean. fwiw we haven't needed to retorque studs or bolts...if it was a high performance high horsepower motor then I could see checking torque.
If I had to guess, it would be the thread pulling was due to fatigued block or not bottoming out the studs properly.
Yea fuck having to retorque the nuts on those studs. I'll stick with bolts. I'd venture to guess the majority of head gasket jobs that fail immediately after when using bolts are due to a warped block, poorly machined heads, or an installation issue.
seventyfive said:
If the threads in the block were clogged with crap, it probably would feel like they had bottomed out early.
Seventyfive, I assume you're talking to KyleT. I took the instructions very literally and never put lube on the block side stud threads. It makes sense because you want the rotational friction to be higher to prevent over tightening the block end while cranking on the head end.
The oldskool torque spec was 66 ftlbs, hence why I chose it originally.
The oldskool torque spec was 66 ftlbs, hence why I chose it originally.
KyleT said:
Thats a little un-fair on the Allmakes side. I can not speak for Brit part
I dont know what parts you received that were bad but my 90 and P38 are are still holding fluid. I know they have changed things up about 2 years ago maybe thats why.
I've found that with aftermarket parts its a total hit or miss. A lot of times you can get better than factory stuff, but a lot of aftermarket stuff is junk.
FIVESPDDISCO said:
o-rings, front cover seal, tcase seals, trans output seal. funny that the one time I used them they ALL leaked, but the HUNDREDS of OEM seals never came back (well eventually cause they still get to leaking after some time...)
In the 15years I have been using ARP head studs, I have never had to retorque them. Thats with using composit and metal head gaskets. chasing the threads in the block is key to a proper install.
Here is some good info
a head stud can be tightened into place without any direct clamping force applied through the tightening. A stud can be threaded into a slot up to “finger tightness,” or the degree to which it would be tightened by hand. Afterward, the cylinder head is installed and a nut is torqued into place against the stud. The nut torque provides the clamping force, rather than the torque of the fastener itself, and the rotational force is avoided entirely. Because the stud is torqued from a relaxed state, the pressure from the nut will make it stretch only along the vertical axis without a concurrent twisting load. The result is a more evenly distributed and accurate torque load compared to that of the head bolt. This ultimately translates into higher reliability and a lower chance of head gasket failure.
Here is some good info
a head stud can be tightened into place without any direct clamping force applied through the tightening. A stud can be threaded into a slot up to “finger tightness,” or the degree to which it would be tightened by hand. Afterward, the cylinder head is installed and a nut is torqued into place against the stud. The nut torque provides the clamping force, rather than the torque of the fastener itself, and the rotational force is avoided entirely. Because the stud is torqued from a relaxed state, the pressure from the nut will make it stretch only along the vertical axis without a concurrent twisting load. The result is a more evenly distributed and accurate torque load compared to that of the head bolt. This ultimately translates into higher reliability and a lower chance of head gasket failure.