Bank 2 = Cyl. 2,4,6,& 8? - O2 sensor question

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lordkenyon

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
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'99 DII, 104k

Is "Bank 2" considered the side with cylinders 2,4,6, & 8? Got the new Magnacores in today (wasn't as tough as I was expecting, only took little over an hour), but I'm still pulling misfire codes on those cylinders and a "Bank 2" O2 Sensor code.

I just replaced the MAFS last week when I changed the oil and put in a new serpentine belt. Also, I changed the plugs (Champion 322s...forgot all I had were DI ones laying around) and cleared all codes.

When I put on the wires today I pulled all the plugs. The plugs on cylinders 1,3,5, & 7 all seem fine when I took them out, but the even numbered ones are carbon fouled pretty badly.

Since I'm not running Bosch plugs (ha), put in new MAF, Magnacore wires, changed oil, and a new S-belt, am I looking at new O2 sensors???

Codes pulled after a test run a bit ago were: P0300, P0308, P0304, P0302, P1300, P1319, P0135, P0103, P0150 and P1590 (yes, I know about this one prob. being related to the three amigos).

Also, did I need to reset anything when I put in the MAFS? Read somewhere about someone doing something like that, but I can't seem to find anything on it.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, I am getting a flashing Service Engine Soon (SES) light.

Thanks!
 
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lordkenyon

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Oct 24, 2005
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I've read that the flashing SES can indicate a working O2 sensor, however, what else could cause the whole bank to be acting up? I checked the connector to the precat O2 sensor that's easy to get to from the engine compartment and it seemed fine.

Should I replace this one as a starting point?
 
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D2 2003

Guest
I'd suggest more diagnosis before throwing more parts at it (especially expensive parts).

Your P0150 indicates a problem with the Bank2 oxy sensor circuit. P0103 says problem in the MAF or MAF circuit (if the MAF is new, likely the MAF circuit). P0135 says problem in the Bank1 oxy sensor heater circuit. I don't know what the 1319 is. The rest are misfires of course.

To sum up what the computer seems to be saying, maybe you've got a harness or computer issue. First thing I would be inclined to do is trace out what is going on with the Bank2 oxy sensor. Let the engine warm to normal operating temp, disconnect the Bank2 sensor and measure its output. Make sure it's output voltage is within normal operating range. Reconnect it and see if you get the same readings at the computer.

Go to the Bank one sensor heater circuit and make sure the average output voltage from the computer is what you see at the sensor heater input.

Check the MAF wiring harness to make sure you get continuity from the MAF connector to the computer connector.

It might be something as simple as a dirty connector at the computer.

(ah, before I forget, make sure you clear any codes thrown as a result of the testing before moving on -- like disconnecting stuff and running the engine will, of course, throw codes -- After reconnecting what you test, clear the codes).
 
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lordkenyon

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Oct 24, 2005
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Thanks. Yes, I'd like to find a few more answers before throwing anything else at it.

P1319 is misfire code as well (with low fuel level...though it wasn't that low).

I don't have the RAVE in front of me, are the O2 sensor output levels listed so I can test the range?

Good call on clearning the codes. I try to always log everything, then clear 'em each time to see how things are progressing.

Another interesting note, is that some of the misfire codes were duplicated (like the 0308, 0304, and 0302)
 
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D2 2003

Guest
O2 sensor output will fluctuate between 0 and 1 volt when engine warmed up (voltage increases as mix gets rich). You really need a scan tool that will plot 02 sensor output to fully test the sensor, but your p0150 indicates something is very badly out of whack so if it is the sensor, something will be obvious (like a reading of zero volts that never varies, say, even with the sensor well warm and engine running -- a reading much in excess of 1 volt is unlikely). If you stick a digital volt meter on its output when it is disconnected and well warmed up with the engine running, the readings will still jump around a bit but you can get a good feel for whether the sensor is basically doing what it is supposed to, and whether that same signal is making it back to the engine computer.

Another thing you can try is disconnecting the Bank2 front sensor, run the engine and make sure the computer throws the appropriate codes (P0154 and P0155 would be expected).

Do the same for the Bank1 sensor to see if that has anything to do with the sensor heater malfunction code you had and maybe check the resistance of the heater in that sensor.

It's possible you actually do have a couple of bad sensors but since they cost quite a bit, I'd try to make sure that was the real problem before replacing them. I'm just looking at is as you got three circuits showing problems, including your MAF that you just replaced so maybe it's the circuits and not the parts.

To get real fancy, pick up a scan tool that can graph oxy sensor output.
 
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David Despain

Well-known member
Feb 24, 2005
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Salt Lick City Utah
what mass airflow sensor did you use for the replacement? the entire assy from bosch? i had the same code (P0103) when i replaced just the sensor assy w/ a lucas branded one. changed out to a whole new bosch assy and it has never run better.

flashing cel indicates catalyst damaging misfire by the way. definitly not good
 
Chris-St Louis

Chris-St Louis

1
Oct 27, 2004
3,000
4
Without reading all the other replies....


I would say, based on your information that you have Dripping Injectors.
 
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lordkenyon

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
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Chris-St Louis said:
Without reading all the other replies....


I would say, based on your information that you have Dripping Injectors.
Click to expand...

That just showed up all on one bank? The old plugs I took out last week didn't have any of the carbon fouling that these did after a week. I was thinking of this too, but with it happening basically at once all at one bank, I wasn't so sure.
 
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lordkenyon

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
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David Despain said:
what mass airflow sensor did you use for the replacement? the entire assy from bosch? i had the same code (P0103) when i replaced just the sensor assy w/ a lucas branded one. changed out to a whole new bosch assy and it has never run better.

flashing cel indicates catalyst damaging misfire by the way. definitly not good
Click to expand...

I just replaced just the sensor with whatever one it was from AB. Prob lucas. I think they reserve a special place in hell for lucas wiring.

Maybe I'll spray the old MAFS and put it back in there. I noticed AB isn't selling just the sensor anymore. I may give them a call and see if there's a reason why or what can be done. I ordered the part back in Jan. but just installed it last week. hmm.

Right now, it's cheaper to put in a new O2 sensor than buy another MAF.
 
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lordkenyon

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Oct 24, 2005
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David Despain said:
does the coil pack fire all the plugs on one bank or do half and half? is it possible that half the bank went out on the coil pack?
Click to expand...

The coil packs are split so that one pack does not control one bank.
 
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lordkenyon

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
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After reading your situation with AB, Dave, I'm going to call them tomorrow and talk with Dave Furiani who placed my order. See if I can get another MAF sent out.
 
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BilP

Guest
I ordered the AB MAFS and got a call from AB saying they were discontinuing it due to the high failure rate they've had with it. It's also no longer shown as being available on their website. I cancelled my order and ordered the whole Bosch assembly (only a marginal step above Lucas IMHO) from Will Tillery. Good luck.

97 DI
01 D2
 
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lordkenyon

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
904
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BilP said:
I ordered the AB MAFS and got a call from AB saying they were discontinuing it due to the high failure rate they've had with it. It's also no longer shown as being available on their website. I cancelled my order and ordered the whole Bosch assembly (only a marginal step above Lucas IMHO) from Will Tillery. Good luck.

97 DI
01 D2
Click to expand...


Called AB last week and they were took care of the issue, no problem, even though I placed the part order back in January (just now got to doing a few projects).

Well, they sent out a Bosch MAF and just put it in and Bam! Rough idle and misfires are GONE! I'm going to pull the plugs out later on the left bank (err..whatever side that is with 2,4,6, &8) and clean up the plugs since they got all carbon fouled. I've been avoiding driving it until this came in.

After an extended test run I'm only pulling the 1590 and P0150 codes. So probably still have an O2 sensor issue, but at least the idle is back to normal and this is easily manageable. This run would've normally thrown all the codes that were there before if I cleared them first.

When I get time, I'll test the O2 sensors and got on that issue and will post an update. But at least all the dangerous and erratic behavior it was exhibiting is gone now due to the new Bosch MAF.

Once again.....damn you Lucas, damn you!!!
 
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lordkenyon

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
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As some closure on this thread. I put in the new O2 sensor today (pass side, front) and cleared the codes. Any remaining rough idle issues are completely gone and all the codes are staying off after a day of driving. Seems to have finally resolved this issue.

I'll have to check the mileage now and see if I'm back up to where I was. Was getting around 18mpg before the issues started.
 
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Jkid

Active member
Dec 30, 2007
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0
You can mark me down for getting screwed by these aftermarket "Lucas" MAF sensors. I went through three (yes 3) of them before I got a Bosch sensor and finally got rid of my codes. They must work for some people, but not on my truck.
 
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