Bose and Sony: A short story of sucking and redemption...

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
I was setting up a little theater nook for someone as a bit of fun, and noticed two things:

1: The Playstation 4 is a piece of rancid dog-shit like any other Sony source unit. Damned thing won't even play a CD, which makes it entirely useless as a source unit. It's worthless. Period. The only reason to buy one is if you want to play one of their exclusive games. Beyond that, almost anything aside from whatever they stuffed in your television is a better option.

The part that ticks me off is that now I look like a jackass. I picked up the PS4 (not having any reason to believe any fool would ban compact discs on a source unit) because it's an interface most like this fellow's Apple products, and a general lackluster feature-set keeps confusing things out of the way. Obviously he assumed that I knew it played CDs. I didn't even think of it, because the machine is perfectly capable of it; and everything else does...

It also doesn't like a lot of things, and the audio/video options may as well have been ripped out of a fucking Dynex VCR.

2: Now. This is where shit got all Twilight Zone:

I also picked up a Bose Soundtouch 300, which is an expandable sound bar/small theater solution. I personally do not like Bose, but this is primarily because they still seem to think they know something about proper home theaters; and either they don't, or they don't care to apply that knowledge to their products.

There's a reason I went with Bose, though; and not just because he's an Apple "form over function" guy.

I found a cutaway diagram of the thing. It's a clever little bird, and they've dumped everything they learned over the years making wussy little speakers into it. I could go into why it performs the way it does, but anyone who will understand can just look the bugger up. It's all very, very old tech; but with good packaging and modern electronics.

I thought this would be a good option given the room. The floors are hardwood, the walls and ceiling are plaster, it's got a massive window, and there are unfortunate gaps in the walls leading to other rooms. It's small, but this room thinks it's big; and with those materials, it's an echo chamber. There's no sensible place to locate a viewing position. Nothing to be done, in the end.

Well, the Soundtouch 300 did just what I thought it might. It made up for the room. Not only that, but even without the sub music and movies were powerful; easily as powerful as a sub-standard home theater arrangement, and it plays flat as a board. This is the first time that company has shocked me in a good way.

This is also the only unit I've sampled that creates utterly convincing virtual surround. The stage must have been three feet behind the television. Very surprising, and just as illuminating as the first time I heard Q-Sound back in the day on a Sega CD.

They're essentially using flattened, multiple-driver horns backed by a folded transmission line ending in a tuned port; what they like to call "waveguide technology" . This time, though, it works. Using horns sorted the issues, and using multiple drivers... That's how they're getting sounds to seemingly come from precisely impossible locations.

To summarize:

A: Buy an Xbox One for your source unit (PS3 if you just hate Microsoft for some reason). Don't get a PS4.

B: If you want a sound bar, just go buy a Bose Soundtouch 300 and be done with it. You're not going to improve upon that full, precise performance without spending money that would buy you a receiver and five speakers; and at that point, why the hell are you buying a sound bar? $699 and you're done. You don't need the optional sub.

Never thought I'd go so far as to recommend a Bose product, but here I am doing just that. It's no home theater, but it's sure as hell close as you're going to get in that form factor without doubling or tripling the price, number of cables, and space requirements.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

pinkytoe69

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2012
1,703
184
minnesota
just as illuminating as the first time I heard Q-Sound back in the day on a Sega CD.

Wow, first time I've heard of a fellow SegaCD owner :)

Thanks for the PS4 tip. My PS3 is hitting 10 years old and I thought it might be time to upgrade...I guess not.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
Wow, first time I've heard of a fellow SegaCD owner :)

Thanks for the PS4 tip. My PS3 is hitting 10 years old and I thought it might be time to upgrade...I guess not.

I still own a Sega CD to this day, but it's the top-loading second model. It's not too far out of frame in the shot I took of that Magnepan speaker in the classified section. I've been trying to figure out how best to build a mobile "CRT entertainment cart". That way everything is always uncluttered, connected, and wherever I want it.

Regarding the PS4, the only reason to pick one up is if you're after an exclusive game. Stick with the PS3 until you run out of things to do. So far as every other activity is concerned, the PS3 is a superior product; and twenty extra points if you nab an early model that's backwards compatible with PS2.

I can divine no other reason to buy a PS4. It's not backward compatible, it won't play a CD, video/audio playback options are spartan at best, it won't play a 4K disc, on-line services aren't particularly reliable and require frequent updates (no change there), the controller feels as cheap (so does the console), and I don't think I've seen a source that can concentrate so much heat into such a tiny area since the first HD cable boxes started going up in smoke.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
You still use CDs?

A lot of people still use physical media, and if the world doesn't stop ignoring it, HD in the near future will be much worse than HD was when it was first loosed upon the world. Hell, right now people are paying subscription fees only to encounter crushed blacks, blown whites, banding, compression artifacts, and sound issues on high dollar displays.

Why? Because people keep asking questions like: "You still use CDs?"

Where's the wonderful world of easy to stream high quality sound that everyone assumed was going to happen? If it's just around the corner, it's been there for damned near twenty years at this point. We ain't getting it; not in an easy to digest manner, anyway.

We won't get streaming Bluray quality, either; not even at 1080p. Either dig your heels in and fight the transition that will never be completed, or just go buy a POS display and be done with it, because that's all we're going to have after a while; that and a bunch of people who think 4K content can be streamed when we haven't even got 1080p in the same ballpark as right.

You've got $7,000 dollar displays on the market with soap opera issues and banding these days, because there's no sense pushing quality to people who traded it for nothing at all. You've got a handful of genuinely good OLED units, but they're being fed signals that make them just as bad as the alternative.

What's the point of blacks that deep and gray-scale that detailed when the source crushes those blacks and ruins the gradients? That's what happens when you discount the utility of physical media: Buy the best display you can find, and it'll still look like shit.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

Tugela

Well-known member
May 21, 2007
4,766
565
Seattle
You still use CDs?

I do. Hundreds of them. I have a dedicated music listening room in my house. I'm not freaky about this shit the way Kennith is, but I enjoy sitting down with some Scotch and listening to an entire album the whole way through. I built my own speakers and have some of my dad's hand-me-down audiophile gear. It's not ultra high end stuff, but it brings me great satisfaction. Plus I have nostalgia for 1990s era technology. Just look at my Rover fleet.
 

SGaynor

Well-known member
Dec 6, 2006
7,148
162
52
Bristol, TN
You still use CDs?

I was joking...

I still buy CDs (as opposed to just downloading), but I rip them to my computer and/or phone. I then basically use my phone as a remote to play my music through my home stereo via bluetooth. I also have my computer connected to my stereo, so I can play music that way.

I also stream Spotify, Pandora through my phone (my stereo actually can connect directly to Pandora).

I just find the convenience of not having to change CDs, but just pushing a button, amazing. Add the fact that I can then take my music with me (Have you heard the Ultimate Ears Megaboom? Amazing), and the need for a CD player is redundant, IMO.

Kennith - you're talking about video. For that I have a dedicated Blue-ray player (I also use it for streaming Amazon, Netflix). So there, I agree completely. But the PS4 also plays blue-ray (I've got a PS4, too).

Now, I found about 3 dozen old cassettes from the 80s that I had. But I've got no cassette player.:(
 

Rob371

Well-known member
Nov 29, 2016
150
1
Charlevoix, Michigan
how best to build a mobile "CRT entertainment cart".

Sorry for butting in. I'm somewhat of an audiophile myself. I like the old stuff as well as the new stuff. I've been lugging around some Altec Lansing model 19s for about 25 years. I have a Sansui AU-719 to run them. Only thing connected to them is a CD player and a,.... (drum roll) bluetooth adapter. All I can say about this set up is my neighbors no longer participate in stereo wars. Bunch of sore losers.

I'm not much into the games though. The xbox 360 is fine for the kids and it does fine with cd's and dvd's on the Bose cinemate system. I like things to be simple.

I suppose if a guy was inclined, he could add a monitor to the lid of the cooler and stuff in a cd player and/or a game system. Build details are available on Crutchfield website.
 

ERover82

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2011
3,923
460
Darien Gap
At sufficient bitrates the vast majority of people can't tell the difference between lossy and lossless audio and video formats. The exception seems to be old white men with poor vision and hearing.
 

ERover82

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2011
3,923
460
Darien Gap
speaker_cables.gif
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
I was joking...

I figured as much. That said, many people aren't joking, and it happens a lot. They don't see what they're doing to the A/V industry. People swarm to clouds and streaming delivery like a swarm of bees and leave everything else on the table, lampooning those who actually know what's being lost.

I still buy CDs (as opposed to just downloading), but I rip them to my computer and/or phone. I then basically use my phone as a remote to play my music through my home stereo via bluetooth. I also have my computer connected to my stereo, so I can play music that way.

I also stream Spotify, Pandora through my phone (my stereo actually can connect directly to Pandora).

I just find the convenience of not having to change CDs, but just pushing a button, amazing. Add the fact that I can then take my music with me (Have you heard the Ultimate Ears Megaboom? Amazing), and the need for a CD player is redundant, IMO.

Kennith - you're talking about video. For that I have a dedicated Blue-ray player (I also use it for streaming Amazon, Netflix). So there, I agree completely. But the PS4 also plays blue-ray (I've got a PS4, too).

Depends on where the CD player is. The receivers I tend to use in cars offer all options. The Pioneer unit I have in the Jaguar even has an SD card slot under the faceplate that I use to store "lossless" recordings of many of my CDs. It's not quite the same, though, and I always keep my favorites in the car.

At home, I'll actually bother to simply sit down and listen to music, and man does compression ever take away from the stuff I enjoy... Some albums just aren't worth listening to on anything less than a CD; and should rightfully be played on vinyl.

That's where I drew the line: Vinyl. It's great, but I run around too much to use it, and the stuff was just taking up space. Between that and amp stacks (have used, sold, will use again in a better room someday) I've lost about as much as I'm willing to lose, but the ground is slipping from under me.

Vinyl may well have better support after a while. I don't want a world in which I have to spend three times what I'd normally budget, simply because the voodoo-peddling lunatics are all that's left.

The Xbox One will play anything you throw at it. It's not the pinnacle of CD playing performance, but it's a damned sight better than you'll find in anything else that also feeds your home theater. The HI/FI stuff actually does make a difference here, but without a perfect room it's not going to show; and for all my efforts the room just isn't good enough for that to matter.

The PS4 does play Bluray, but not overly well compared to the PS3 and Xbox One. Microsoft has kicked up their game, and the Xbox now bitstreams HD audio. That was one of the final complaints as a source unit.

Now, I found about 3 dozen old cassettes from the 80s that I had. But I've got no cassette player.:(

Heh. Put those tapes in a cassette player and you probably won't have it for very long. :D I've got a nice tape player, but beyond the slight nostalgic factor I never really liked cassettes. That said, one of my favorite bands still releases albums on vinyl and cassette.

Yeah, I buy the tapes too, but it's more about how well the process of inserting and playing them works with the music. It's an "active" listening experience, and the tapes work well with that.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina

Now that stuff is total bullshit. Those people are crazy as hell. If you want a laugh, go to the Mapleshade website. They ought to be held accountable for their false advertising. There is no "subjective value" to be considered.

This stuff can be measured. You can't out-pace physics.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
At sufficient bitrates the vast majority of people can't tell the difference between lossy and lossless audio and video formats. The exception seems to be old white men with poor vision and hearing.

I ain't an old man, damn it all. My vision is 20/10 in both eyes, and only one of my ears is failing... :D

That's what EQ is for. :rofl:

Cheers,

Kennith
 

K-rover

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2010
2,182
69
Raleigh, NC
I couldnt tell you the last time I had a music CD in my hand... Once I had my huge CD collection stolen out of my car years ago I never bothered replacing it.. Makes much more sense to have 1500 songs on a IPod, than to have a case full of CD's that will get scratched or broken.

To each their own I guess...
 

Rob371

Well-known member
Nov 29, 2016
150
1
Charlevoix, Michigan
LOL. CDs are one thing, but you're using EQs? SMH! You wanna know how I know you're old?

At any rate, my Dad has the real shit. An eight track player that hold 5 eight tracks. I shit you not,... an actual eight track changer. Some day I will inherit that thing.

For all the haters, I've got around 400 CDs. Average price about fifteen bucks??? WTF was I thinking? Should have listened to my parents.
 

JackW

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2005
675
69
I sold my pair of Altec A-7 Voice of the Theater speakers about a year ago when my wife made it abundantly clear that they were NEVER going to come upstairs from the basement. I also sold off all of my old Dynaco gear and most of my collection of other speakers - a bunch of AR's, some KLH and Dynaco speakers. I just could never resist picking up a pair of $300+ speakers at a yard sale for under $20.

Those old A-7's won a LOT of "Speaker Wars" back in the day.