Cindy Sheehan?

[Jake]

What do you all think about the Cindy Sheehan phenomena? I passed through Crawford on the way back home Sunday and a few things were apparant:

1. There were not nearly as many "peacenicks" there as the media reports implied. Percieved = >100s, actual = <70.

2. Most seemed to be aging hippies who forgot the sixties ended almost 40 years ago.

3. Some others seemed well-intended, just naive regarding the real agenda of the folks behind Sheenhan, ie Marxist Socialist troublemakers.

4. Sheehan has a PR person, from a top NY PR firm. Someone is spending big bucks on pushing her. There is no way that this is a grass roots thing.

5. Move-on.org is a big factor in this.

6. There is a substantial counter-protest going on that is not well-reported.

 

[KEJ]

Been waitin' for this thread to start! This may be another 300+ post thread, good lord

First, this is the right of free speech in action, love the message or not.

This woman has lost her son, so in my book has AMPLE right to say anything she likes. She doesn't strike me as ANYONE'S puppet and she can employ/ally/befriend or anything else any one she likes.

Interestingly, I read yesterday that Free Republic was behind the organization of the pro-war counter protest. Amuses me, but doesn't bother me.

There was a lot of reporting on this morning's news about anti-war vigils held overnight, all over the country. There are a LOT of people in this country who do not approve of this war, how we got there, how it's being conducted, or some or all of the aforementioned.

If President Bush wants to end this Cindy Sheehan protest all he has to do is have a meeting with her. Evidently, it doesn't bother him.

KJ

 

[Obie]

the fact that her husband dumped her like a sack of potatoes and her family has ex-communicated her ... speaks volumes .... she's a quack.

 

[Jake]

Well, he already met with her. I feel that the only thing she wants to do now is humiliate the President.

There are lots of families who have lost someone over there, most don't support her and the agenda of those behind her.

She has a right to speak, but she shoud be forthright about who is backing her.

 

[nosivad_bor]

I was against starting the war because i felt sadam was doing a good job of keeping those iraqi radicals in check and i didnt think they had weapons. Just needed to keep the pressure on him so he didnt get too cocky.

the lady looses her son, that sucks, but pulling out now allows those idiots to fester and then come looking for us. so unless she wants us to do this right and whipe them out i have to say wee need to stay there and teach these people how to be humans and kill off those that cant learn.

Bush meeting with her? i dont think he should do that it's just going to encourage people to protest until they meet with the president.

Protesting? i think this is very good and american. i wish her the best fight and i hope she succeds. This contradicts what i feel is best for the country because i also feel it is healthy to keep the gov't in check with protests.

rob

 

[SCSL]

While this may surprise KJ , I hope Sheehan's protest continues,,,and that more parents join in. Perhaps not for the same reasons, though. I am far from a dove, quite the contrary. But engaging in an easily predictable quagmire is a waste of resources. Iraq is about as ready for democracy as any other of her neighbors. Our system of government evolved, built as it was upon the intellectual foundations of centuries of political & economic thought & practice. If the people of the middle east want Shari'a, let them have it. If they want civil war, let them have it. Our resources would be better applied to counter-terrorism, border control, and if necessary B-52 strikes. Hard line. No prisoners. But our current idealistic policy, evidently, is not an efficient use of resources.

What is going on in Iraq is not a "war". I am in full support of our military smashing, during the course of a military operation, any defined target. However, I am opposed to sending our sons & daughters into a police action to be sniped at. Those people not only hate us, they hate each other. I am 100% opposed to using the military for "half measures". Emotional opinions on this, to be sure. So before you take offense, understand that this is only my .02

 

[KEJ]

Jake, did you take a poll of all the families that have lost loved ones in this war to acertain the ratio of supporters vs. dissenters? I don't you can make a statement like that, one way or the other. The point is SHE feels this way and has decided on this action as a way to express herself. She puts a human face on these issues, and that is something that has largely been lacking in reporting of this war. We're not allowed to see the flag-draped coffins returning home, which before anyone jumps in here, I would NOT consider a sacrilage as has been suggested on this board before. This administration has gone to great lengths to depersonalize the deaths from this war, Cindy Sheehan personalizes it again.

As for being forthright, I'd say that should start from the top, and by that I mean the Bush administration. This war was predicated on a lie, was illegal, and we are all supposed to forget about that and "stay the course". Afghanistan was a place to begin to fight "the war on terror", NOT Iraq. Let me say it one more time: Iraq had no WMDs. Saddam had NOTHING to do with Osama Bin Forgotten. Saddam had NOTHING to do with the 9/11 attacks. The Iraq war has inflamed the world against the U.S., squandered the sympathies of the world toward the U.S. after 9/11, distracted and diluted our resources in "the war on terror", and the reasons for being there that this president keeps repeating like a parrot don't make sense. As of last week only 42% of Americans still support this war.

It's BECAUSE I support our troops that I do not support this war, but I've said that before.

KJ

 

[Jake]

"Our resources would be better applied to counter-terrorism, border control, and if necessary B-52 strikes. Hard line. No prisoners. But our current idealistic policy, evidently, is not an efficient use of resources. "

I somewhat agree with you. However, we should stay in Iraq than for no other reason that it will make a good staging base to invade Iran from. This may be the plan, don't ask me how I know...

 

[KEJ]

While this may surprise KJ , I hope Sheehan's protest continues,,,and that more parents join in. Perhaps not for the same reasons, though. I am far from a dove, quite the contrary. But engaging in an easily predictable quagmire is a waste of resources. Iraq is about as ready for democracy as any other of her neighbors. Our system of government evolved, built as it was upon the intellectual foundations of centuries of political & economic thought & practice. If the people of the middle east want Shari'a, let them have it. If they want civil war, let them have it. Our resources would be better applied to counter-terrorism, border control, and if necessary B-52 strikes. Hard line. No prisoners. But our current idealistic policy, evidently, is not an efficient use of resources.

What is going on in Iraq is not a "war". I am in full support of our military smashing, during the course of a military operation, any defined target. However, I am opposed to sending our sons & daughters into a police action to be sniped at. Those people not only hate us, they hate each other. I am 100% opposed to using the military for "half measures". Emotional opinions on this, to be sure. So before you take offense, understand that this is only my .02

And it does! (Surprise me, that is)

KJ

 

[KEJ]

"Our resources would be better applied to counter-terrorism, border control, and if necessary B-52 strikes. Hard line. No prisoners. But our current idealistic policy, evidently, is not an efficient use of resources. "

I somewhat agree with you. However, we should stay in Iraq than for no other reason that it will make a good staging base to invade Iran from. This may be the plan, don't ask me how I know...

And I'm certain if we invade Iran providing for that action will quell the grief of families who have lost, and will lose, loved ones in Iraq. Not. And let's not act like we have insider info from the black helicopters, eh? This president lost focus once again, hopping from Afghanistan to Iraq ("He tried to kill my daddy") to North Korea, which probably looked too able for us to want to take on, and now to Iran. This is not insider information, it's as obvious as the next thing our ADD man in charge says. Iran may or may not get replaced by the next thing and Iraq will be left the beehive he couldn't keep from poking with a stick.

KJ

 

[rmarti]

I'm very sick and tired of people saying "why are we sending our kids to die in a war?"

First off; these kids were grown individuals who made a conscience decision to join the military. They are not sent by their mommy or daddy to go the recruiter, because I'm sure if it were left up to my mommy and daddy 9yrs ago, I would still be a civilian.

Second; rather than asked the government to stop sending our "kids" to war why don't you ask these "kids" if they still want to go. You'll find that most of these "kids" are motivated and ready to fight for democracy. If you pull out now, those "kids" that have sacrificed their lives would have sacirficed for nothing!

GET THE WHOLE IDEA OF THE GOVERNMENT SENDING OUR SONS AND DAUGHTERS TO WAR OUT OF YOUR HEADS. THE SONS AND DAUGHTERS ARE STEPPING UP AND SENDING THEMSELVES!!!

 

[Jake]

Jake, did you take a poll of all the families that have lost loved ones in this war to acertain the ratio of supporters vs. dissenters? I am going by the infomation that is out there for all to review. Also, as a retired military guy, I still have many contacts that give me input.Most military families want NOTHING to do with the pricks behind SheehanI don't you can make a statement like that, one way or the other. The point is SHE feels this way and has decided on this action as a way to express herself. She puts a human face on these issues, and that is something that has largely been lacking in reporting of this war. We're not allowed to see the flag-draped coffins returning home, which before anyone jumps in here, I would NOT consider a sacrilage as has been suggested on this board before. It is not a sacralige, just none of the business of those who do not have a dead family member. They are not and should not be pawns used to illustrate anything. Unlike the rest of us, they are the only ones who have seen the end of war This administration has gone to great lengths to depersonalize the deaths from this war, Cindy Sheehan personalizes it again.

As for being forthright, I'd say that should start from the top, and by that I mean the Bush administration. This war was predicated on a lie, was illegal, and we are all supposed to forget about that and "stay the course". Afghanistan was a place to begin to fight "the war on terror", NOT Iraq. Let me say it one more time: Iraq had no WMDs. Saddam had NOTHING to do with Osama Bin Forgotten. Saddam had NOTHING to do with the 9/11 attacks. This has been hashed and rehashed so much that it is not worth arguing. Iraq had a part in the terror war, just ask any Palestinian family who got 25K from Sadam for their "martyr" war has inflamed the world against the U.S., squandered the sympathies of the world toward the U.S. after 9/11, distracted and diluted our resources in "the war on terror", and the reasons for being there that this president keeps repeating like a parrot don't make sense. As of last week only 42% of Americans still support this war.

This war is suppossed to piss people off, especially those who want the status quo to remain. If we start looking weak now, we will be the punk of any country that wants to intimidate us.

It's BECAUSE I support our troops that I do not support this war, but I've said that before.

If you want to support the trops, suport what they do, not some Kumbaya bullshitKJ

MHO

 

[KEJ]

rmarti, it's not a question of "a war", it's a question of THIS war. This is not the "war on terror" that many thought they were signing up to fight to help defend America, this is the misguided clusterfuck du jour. Mothers, fathers, wives, sisters and brothers grieved over dead loved ones in WWII, but most believed it was a just, necessary war. That makes a huge difference.

KJ

 

[Jake]

And I'm certain if we invade Iran providing for that action will quell the grief of families who have lost, and will lose, loved ones in Iraq. Not. And let's not act like we have insider info from the black helicopters, eh? This president lost focus once again, hopping from Afghanistan to Iraq ("He tried to kill my daddy") to North Korea, which probably looked too able for us to want to take on, and now to Iran. This is not insider information, it's as obvious as the next thing our ADD man in charge says. Iran may or may not get replaced by the next thing and Iraq will be left the beehive he couldn't keep from poking with a stick.

KJ

Screw your smart-ass comment. I spent several years as a General Staff Officer in the Army in the 90s. The country planned this war and it doesn't just stop in Iraq. (also remember this was during the CLINTON years, so screw your "he tried to kill my daddy" BS)

North Korea is another matter and it will most likley not involve many US ground troops.

 

[F18Guy]

Cindy has her motives, too bad the Lib support groups are jumping into the fray.

However, we should stay in Iraq than for no other reason that it will make a good staging base to invade Iran from.

Agreed. Yep the EU is already doing the Kerry Waffle in regards to IRAN...we'll have to act on that one as well.

Want to fight terrorism, then put a stop to the ACLU bullshit. An Austrailian born muslim carring a nuke could walk across the Canadian border into the US easier than a college kid trying to buy beer

 

[Mike_Rupp]

I am 100% opposed to using the military for "half measures". Emotional opinions on this, to be sure. So before you take offense, understand that this is only my .02

On this point I agree. What we are doing is definitely a half measure. We are fighting the was on their terms. These scumbags are flooding into Iraq from Syria and Iran. Does anyone honestly believe that all of these bombs are originating from within Iraq? If we are going to really attempt to solve the problem of terrorism, we need to go into Syria and Iran. This will cause a shitstorm for sure, but what choice do we have?

Clearly the Bill Clinton / liberal philosophy of sticking your head in the sand didn't work & the almost as whimpy Bush middle of the road philosophy isn't doing it either.

The next step in the process is to start bombing Tehran and Syria, but no politician has the nuts to do it. This problem isn't going away either. Do we wait until Tehran has a nuke before we do something? Military force will be needed against these nutjobs, as it is the only thing they understand.

And Karen, please! The war was illegal? Saddam was in violation of how many UN resolutions? By your standard, I guess all war is illegal, huh? Do you have one of those cute bumper stickers that says "Bush is a terrorist"?

 

[rmarti]

KJ,

All the men and women know is that there is a war and the country needs men and women to fight this war.

If you are so bent out of shape about men and women CHOOSING to go to a war, than you need to stand in front of a recruiters office and TRY to persuade them that it's not a war that they want to sign up for-GO RIGHT AHEAD.

What you're telling me and a few-hundred thousand men and women is that we are serving our country for all the wrong reasons, we so be it if thats your opinion! Whether wrong or right, I'M HERE FOR MY COUNTRY.

AND PLEASE DON'T FEEL SORRY FOR ME IF I DIE IN THIS WAR, IT WAS MY DESCION THAT PUT ME HERE.

 

[KEJ]

Jake, I would suggest that if you want to support your statements about percentages of families of soldiers killed in this war who support this war and those who don't, that you post some information other than, "it's out there for all to review".

As for my "smart ass comment", it wasn't meant to be smart, it was meant to retort. Cindy Sheehan is asking for the justification for her son's death, and though I don't speak for her, I'd doubt that paving the way for war with Iran will make his death feel any more justified to his mother.

As for this president saying that "Saddam tried to kill my daddy", well, he said it, I only quoted it. And he didn't say it during the Clinton adminstration, he said it during his own.

As for North Korea, who knows? We may go, we may not, but we were also told this war wouldn't require many troops, would be over quickly, was necessary to our national defense, etc. and all of those things that have proven otherwise.

KJ

 

[Jake]

Cindy Sheehan's GROWN SON (24) died because he was a soldier in a war. As harsh as it sounds, it happens.

He was three things for sure:
1. He voluntarily enlisted
2. He volunarily reenlisted
3. He volunteered to go help out fellow soldiers under ambush even though he was a mechanic, not a comabt arms guy.

She may not like the war, that's her right. But her son fully supported it and paid the ultimate price. She is not worth a drop of his spit for using his name and rememberance in such a way and supported by so many that want to destroy this country.

Powerful nations fight wars as a matter of national policy. The war on terror and the war to influence control on the middle east oil is critical to our survival.

 

[Jake]

Lest You Think She Is Stable and Alone......

From Drudge...........

CINDY UNLEASHED: 'THE BIGGEST TERRORIST IN THE WORLD IS GEORGE W. BUSH'
Wed Aug 17 2005 21:51:56 ET

"We are not waging a war on terror in this country. We?re waging a war of terror. The biggest terrorist in the world is George W. Bush!"

So declared Cindy Sheehan earlier this year during a rally at San Francisco State University.

Sheehan, who is demanding a second meeting with Bush, stated: "We are waging a nuclear war in Iraq right now. That country is contaminated. It will be contaminated for practically eternity now."

Sheehan unleashed a foul-mouth tirade on April 27, 2005:

"They?re a bunch of fucking hypocrites! And we need to, we just need to rise up..." Sheehan said of the Bush administration.

"If George Bush believes his rhetoric and his bullshit, that this is a war for freedom and democracy, that he is spreading freedom and democracy, does he think every person he kills makes Iraq more free?"

"The whole world is damaged. Our humanity is damaged. If he thinks that it?s so important for Iraq to have a U.S.-imposed sense of freedom and democracy, then he needs to sign up his two little party-animal girls. They need to go to this war."

"We want our country back and, if we have to impeach everybody from George Bush down to the person who picks up dog shit in Washington, we will impeach all those people."

END