d1 in Georgia for sale by Patrick Fred Williams
- Thread starter ezzzzzzz
- Start date
i saw it on Facebook. He is trying to sell it with a Bill of Sale because he “misplaced” the title. In Missouri, it is almost impossible to get a title with only a bill of sale. It’s easy for who it is currently titled to. Why he wouldn’t just get a duplicate title, I don’t know. I’d never buy a vehicle with a bill of sale unless I didn’t plan to license it. In Missouri you can’t even sell to a junk yard with a bill of sale. I have purchased parts vehicles without titles. After removing the parts I wanted, I’d cut them in half with a reciprocating saw. Then, one half at a time I’d sell what was left to metal recycler. (Two separate trips) Because it is in halves, it’s not considered a vehicle and no title is required.
When I bought Blueboy ‘67 Series IIa NADA 109 from ECR in Maine, it was with a Bill of Sale as Maine didn’t issue titles in the 60s. No problem getting a title for it in OK where we were living at the time. However for a vehicle that had a title the seller should just get a duplicate and be done with it.
It is interesting how different states handle such things. While I’m new here, it seems New Mexico is as picky as Missouri. I brought a trailer with me from Missouri that was licensed in Missouri. When I tried to license it in New Mexico they wouldn’t because they could only find the VIN in one location and it had to be in two locations. The clerk told me I had to take it to Albuquerque (4 hours away) for some special inspection. She told me to not add a second VIN myself because she would remember me and know I did it.
Well, my Missouri plates still had some time so I decided to put it off until “later.” However, knowing DMV offices are not created equal, just before my Missouri plates expired,I drove to the next closest DMV office, 30 miles away.
Good news / bad news… She didn’t mention a word about the VIN not being in two places and after writing down the VIN stamped in the frame, we went back into the office and she started filling in the forms when she noticed the Missouri DMV had swapped two numbers in the VIN listed on the title, something like 35 becoming 53.. She said it couldn’t be licensed in New Mexico until Missouri corrected the title.
I contacted the DMV in Missouri and explained the situation. They agreed it was an obvious clerical error on their part. But, it couldn’t be corrected unless they inspected it. (Of course I had to pay for the inspection and all fees associated.) So, I took that damn trailer 1100 miles back to Missouri. It was a complete nightmare with multiple steps getting that corrected. To make a very long and annoying story short, 9 months later I had a correct Missouri title.
When I got it back to New Mexico, I took it to the DMV office that was 30 miles away and had the plates in less than 20 minutes. No mention about the VIN only in one location.
I don’t know what Missouri would do about a vehicle that never had a title, such as your example. Maybe they would treat it as a certificate of origin, which seems reasonable for being issued a title. However, I do know it would be a non-starter with a bill of sale for a D1.
Last edited:
Wow!! In all the places we have lived around the World the DMV is always a pita. When we brought back the Saab and Rangie from Switzerland to register them in PA, met a Public Notary that really helped. To title / plate them in Switzerland the Swiss DMV cut the corner of the NY Title yet gave them back to me. To re-register them in PA with a Foreign Title would be extremely time consuming and complicated. The Notary asked if I still had the US titles and thankfully had kept them. The process he used was to just treat it as registering an out of State vehicle and accepted the NY titles!! Since they were originally US vehicles no issues bringing them back to the US and getting them State inspected / insured. Ended up being very easy versus the hoops we went through getting them registered in Switzerland.
I have several more horror stories from Missouri. I will make this story very short. I once licensed two Triumphs during the same visit to the DMV. instead of licensing both vehicles they issued two sets of plates to one vehicle. Foolishly, when the envelope with what I thought were 2 titles arrived in the mail, I didn’t check both were inside. I just filed it. Two years later when I took them to get emsssions and safety inspected the shop informed me both plates were licensed to one of the Triumphs. I went back to the same DMV office and they told me I’d have to tow the one without a title, which they admittedly lost, 200 miles away for an inspection. They admitted they screwed up, again, but that it was my problem. It wasn’t, thankfully, the nicer of the two and had been in an accident that shouldn’t have been repaired. I salvaged everything I could from it to use on another much better body. I then cut it in half and sold it to a metal recycler. The “interaction” with the DMV office was actually much worse than as I described. In the past, most Missouri DMV offices were not state run or owned, they were given out as political paybacks by the newly elected governors to donors as they were very profitable. When a new governor was elected, if the owner of the DMV office hadn’t been a campaign donor, it got awarded to someone who was. It definitely seemed there was little or no oversight of how they were run. It was a disaster in many ways. Thankfully, that process ended a while back. Now, they are awarded by a competing bid process with non-profit organizations getting priority. My last visit back to that location was immensely better, much faster, and very professional.
Now, however, having been burned multiple times, I triple check everything before I leave the DMV office, My last trip to the New Mexico DMV I found they had listed my name and address incorrectly. I was able to get that corrected before I left.
Last edited:
We lived in Tulsa for a number of years. As I mentioned we were able to get the Series Landy titled with a Bill of Sale from Maine without issues. That was in 2000 though.
I owned a 76 Cutlass that was a theft recovery. I had to get that thing inspected when I moved to another state. Always a state trooper had to inspect it. I went from Va to Fl and those crackers thought I stole the thing. Then I went to Illinois and the same shit. Then I sold it to my friend who still lived in Indiana and he assured me they didn’t like that thing either.
I actually understand why they are sticklers. The problem is that each DMV seems to arbitrarily either add their own ”rules” or ignores them.
In St. Louis, before the rules became more stringent, there was a metal recycler that would buy any vehicle for scrap without a title. They just crushed and shredded them. I know this because I had a police officer friend that worked on stolen vehicle cases while this was going on. It went like this, steal the car, remove sellable stuff like the engines and wheels, then sell what was left to the metal recycler. Nowadays to ”prevent” such shenanigans, you have to provide a title to sell a vehicle to a metal recycler or salvage yard.
Well, like many things government, it sort of worked. Now, you have to cut it half to sell to a metal recycler without a title. But… they take a picture of your drivers license, Maybe that is enough of a deterrent. For the honest people, like many things government, it just makes things annoyingly difficult, So, for me, I won’t pay much of anything for a vehicle without a title. I have a friend that would buy old cars for specific parts. Before the rules changed after he was done with them he would trailer them to a metal recycler. After the rules changed, if they didn’t have titles, after he took what he wanted he then would push them out to a public street and leave them. After a while to city would tow them away.
Seems to me, the only deterrent that probably really helps is to require a photo ID. Instead, you have to go through a bunch of BS that likely only serves to punish the honest people, The crooks always adapt.
In St. Louis, before the rules became more stringent, there was a metal recycler that would buy any vehicle for scrap without a title. They just crushed and shredded them. I know this because I had a police officer friend that worked on stolen vehicle cases while this was going on. It went like this, steal the car, remove sellable stuff like the engines and wheels, then sell what was left to the metal recycler. Nowadays to ”prevent” such shenanigans, you have to provide a title to sell a vehicle to a metal recycler or salvage yard.
Well, like many things government, it sort of worked. Now, you have to cut it half to sell to a metal recycler without a title. But… they take a picture of your drivers license, Maybe that is enough of a deterrent. For the honest people, like many things government, it just makes things annoyingly difficult, So, for me, I won’t pay much of anything for a vehicle without a title. I have a friend that would buy old cars for specific parts. Before the rules changed after he was done with them he would trailer them to a metal recycler. After the rules changed, if they didn’t have titles, after he took what he wanted he then would push them out to a public street and leave them. After a while to city would tow them away.
Seems to me, the only deterrent that probably really helps is to require a photo ID. Instead, you have to go through a bunch of BS that likely only serves to punish the honest people, The crooks always adapt.
Last edited: