dealer woes

[Alan]

Hi folks,

Need some advice. I'm having some problems with the dealer. Here's what happened:

I had a swivel housing leak on my front passenger wheel and my upper rad hose was leaking at the plenum chamber connection. I decided to let the dealer fix the swivel housing leak and while they were at it I provided them with a new rad hose to swap out. I'd normally do this work myself but I'm just too busy with my contracts so thought it would just be easier if I let the dealer do the work. This was supposed to be a two hour job, three at most. I booked this job back on March 29 (Wed). The truck was supposed to be finished the same day. I get a call back at the end of the day from the service dept and the kid (wouldn't put him much past 20) tells me they can't give the vehicle back to me because "we took the housing apart and the shop is having problems getting it back together". I'm shocked by this so I call the GM and ask him what the hell is going on in the shop and 5 minutes later the Service Mgr calls me telling me that there's been a miscommunication and they just ran out of time (but I dropped off my truck at 7:30AM that morning besides the fact that I booked the appointment the week before so I'm thinking he's full of shit). There isn't any technical problem putting things back together and that the truck will be ready first thing next morning.

I decided not to go the next morning (although the Service Mgr assured me it would be ready the next morning because the tech was staying late to finish the job) and instead I go at the end of the day to pick up my truck. I get there at 5PM and guess what?? The job isn't done and NO ONE called me to tell me that it was not done and not to bother coming down so I'm now standing there with no truck and an hour of my time wasted. The kid behind the service counter says "I was just about to call you..." and then tells me "the shop bent something and in the process broke the seal when they were pressing it back on" so basically they have to fly in a new swivel housing seal which I'm now wondering why they bring in these seals in such small quantities when they're only like $12 AND WHO THE HELL THEY HAVE WORKING IN THE SHOP! Again I go see the GM and explain to him what just happened and this is absolute horseshit. He goes sees the service dept and comes back apologizing telling me the delay is because the part is arriving tomorrow which I'm not entirely sure he understood the reason why a new part had to be flown in.

Friday rolls around, no calls, no part, no truck. I only found anything out because I called them asking. Apparently FedEx isn't able to get the part out in time so I have to wait until Monday to get my truck back.

Monday and I finally get my truck back at around 2:30pm and a bill for $507 (which I decided not to pay until I inspected the work). I immediately notice that my truck is pulling to the left when I brake and make note to take a look when I get home. That evening I inspect the work and guess what I find?? The retainer plate that holds the seal in is held in place by 6 bolts. The dealer sheared one of the bottom bolts off (the other half was still in the housing) and decided not to fix this problem. On top of that, the steel brake pipe is all bent to hell and sticking out like someone didn't bother to disconnect it before taking everything off. This was considered "job done". Both of my driverside rims have had the shit scratched out of them too which I'm almost positive they didn't look like that when I dropped off my vehicle. I take digital pictures of everything and send an email off to the GM and said I'm not paying this bill and I want someone to call me back. Service Mgr calls back the next day apologizing profusely saying they had no idea this happened and that as soon as the LR3 comes back, they'll swap vechicles with me and fix the problem...and to tear the invoice up, that I don't have to pay it. That was over two weeks ago this last conversation happened.

They finally get their LR3 back last week and swap vehicles with me on Wed. I get a call today from the Service Mgr telling me my truck is ready and I can pick it up today if I want. I told him it's 5PM and I'm on the other side of the city so I'll get my truck tomorrow. He then says "we reduced your bill and it's now $345". I'm shocked and asked what it was for? He said it's only for the original work I requested and that they refinished my two wheels free of charge. I'm not particularily happy at the invoice and asked if he felt 4 weeks, and 3 attempts to do the work on top of damaging things seems like it justifies the invoice he just gave me and his response was "we're only charging you our cost". I also said "you told me to tear up the invoice and that I don't have to pay it." He said "I said you don't have to pay THAT invoice. This NEW invoice we reduced it so you only pay our cost." I said "but you screwed up not once but three times!!" He wouldn't budge and I knew this conversation isn't going anywhere so I left it at that and called the GM.

GM and I discuss this and he felt the $345 is appropriate "because we refinished your wheels out of good faith and it cost us $200 to do it. However there's no evidence in our washbay how those rims could have been scratched like that and there's no where in our lot that it could have rubbed up against to cause that damage BUT it's not impossible hence our reasoning for doing it anyway so we feel we acted out of good faith and did them for you." I told him that I know of at least 4 places in the lot that you could park next to a curb and if not careful rub the rims against them causing that damage. No response from the GM. I also made my point that if you felt there was no evidence of the damage to the wheels occuring there and that it would basically be my word against their word I would have dropped the issue and left it at that as it would have been hard for me to prove anyway and I wasn't out to get them. My main concern was with the work that was done, not done, screwed up on and the amount of time it took to fix this problem and the fact that they still felt justified in charging cost (so basically they come out of it even) and the GM's point was that they spent the $200 to fix my wheels so they did more than they felt necessary. He asked me what I thought was fair and I said considering everything that's happened and the inconveniences it's caused me?? Nothing! Why should I be paying any of this bill? His response was that he'd knock $100 off and that's it.

So my question is, is this a fair resolution or am I being unreasonable in thinking that I shouldn't have to pay this bill?? I want to understand this situation from an "outsiders" perspective just in case I'm being not seeing things clearly.

Thanks for your time.

PS: Here's a photo of the swivel housing work the day they returned it to me thinking it was "done".

 

[frickjp]

Is your swivel housing leaking? Is the broken bolt repaired? Is the radiator hose changed? You contracted the work, they did the work, yet you feel no payment is due. They didn't have to discount anything. Sounds to me like they're willing to go to $250? Helluva' deal. Scratched wheels? On an 8 year old truck? They took care of that? They worked on the passenger side, but scratched the drivers side wheels?
As far as scheduling goes, appointment or not, current models have priority over older ones. Buy it from them? Many dealerships give priority to their customers before others. Face it, an 8 year old truck isn't a priority.

 

[Ian95rrc]

I'm surprised they gave you the service they did. Most dealers could care less about a D1 customer. I've heard of some even refusing to work on them. They messed up your truck but all they are legally supposed to do is fix their screw ups. They don't have to compensate you for your time, inconvenience, etc. $245 to get to that seal and replace it doesn't seem that bad. I would be more concerned of what they screwed up in the process of getting to it and putting it back together.

Make sure they performed the work properly, pay your bill, and move on.

 

[RBBailey]

My dealer still takes RRC's and DI's -- see them every time I'm there.

In fact, when they took my Disco II in for an engine swap and had it done in about 20 hours... of course, they didn't swap my engine. Their service bulletins say I need a new engine, but they won't give it to me.

Any work they do should be warranteed. They do the work, keep bringing it back till it's done proper. Your time waisted is frustrating, but hey, that's what happens when your truck breaks down -- it's a waist of time by definition.

 

[Alan]

I don't have my truck back yet so I have no idea if any of the work was done properly this time around.

As for the wheels, that's why I said that I wasn't as concerned with the wheels as with the work I actually wanted done but I made note of them to the dealer to let them know that something might have happened while it was there as most of their staff are very young and inexperienced so quite possible someone wasn't careful either when washing or possibly scraping them against the curbs there, however that wasn't my main concern, the work I requested was my concern.

Was this truck bought there? Yes it was. In fact it was owned by LR Canada before the dealer sold it to me and I've bought parts and had work done there off and on over my ownership so as far as priority if I make an appointment a week before I think my truck should be worked on in a timely manner and correctly the first time, not three attempts later. 4 weeks doesn't seem timely to me. I wouldn't have been so ticked off if after the original 4 or 5 days it took for them to do the work, that it was actually done properly but it wasn't. Sheared bolts, leaky housing and bent brake pipes isn't what I would call "done properly" and this would have gone un-noticed if I didn't check the work.

Ben I saw your threads at the time you had problems but not sure how it ended. Hopefully somewhat well.

This is frustrating but like you said Ian, I guess pay it and move on. However this isn't an isolated incident. I know other owners who've had completely shoddy work done, parts forgotten, things left unhooked by this dealer. Quite a few ended up selling their Rovers off because they didn't feel they could get the support they needed.

I guess the point I'm hearing is just pay it and move on and be glad for what service I did get.

 

[Alyssa]

I think they tried to do right by you. They admitted fault, apologized, gave you a loaner, fixed something that very well could have already been there, and discounted your bill heavily. Yes I'm biased toward the dealer, but, other than having done it right the first time, I'm not sure there is any better resolution. They really tried to make it up to you.

 

[NorCalDiscoII]

Is your swivel housing leaking? Is the broken bolt repaired? Is the radiator hose changed? You contracted the work, they did the work, yet you feel no payment is due. They didn't have to discount anything. Sounds to me like they're willing to go to $250? Helluva' deal. Scratched wheels? On an 8 year old truck? They took care of that? They worked on the passenger side, but scratched the drivers side wheels?
As far as scheduling goes, appointment or not, current models have priority over older ones. Buy it from them? Many dealerships give priority to their customers before others. Face it, an 8 year old truck isn't a priority.

So? by that logic, one should expect less services for the buck on an old truck, compared to the new one? That?s brilliant. :bs:

Alan, you?ve been wronged: lied to, inconvenienced, your time and efforts have been wasted. Your property was handled in a careless manner and the first attempt to get the work done was ?done? half-ass, with no QA. Lets pretend it was some old lady, clueless about how to check the quality of the completed work? what would happen then? She?d be shelling out more $$ once shit started falling apart due to poor quality ?work?. Assuming your story is accurate I?d say that GM is a pile. Pay what you feel is fair or don?t pay at all.

 

[Alan]

"They really tried to make it up to you."

Guess I'll find out tomorrow when I pick up the vehicle. But from my perspective, so many things went wrong that shouldn't have on a job that wasn't anywhere near the difficulty level of Ben's and the only reason it's gotten to this point is because I caught their mistakes. Hard to dispute them when parts are broken and it's still leaking. My opinion on the situation is they should have dealt with it right away instead of making me wait 3 extra weeks before they got back to it and that's only because I had to call to find out what was going on and when they were going to fix the problems. The situation was already poorly handled so why not deal with it right away so the customer, who's already not happy, isn't made to feel even worse. All that says is "we have other customers we'd rather deal with before you get back to you". If you have a bad situation on your hands, deal with it quickly so the customer feels his issues are being taken seriously so when you invoice them, at least it's done in a manner that makes the customer feel like it was at least worth it in the end. They never once said a thing to me about fixing my wheels until today. All they said when they took my truck this last time was the repairs would be fixed but any solution with the wheels wasn't discussed so they did it like they were doing me a favor but I made it clear that my priority is the work I originally requested.

Alyssa, if you had a customer in a similar situation, would you not deal with it right away, not 3 to 4 weeks later? Waiting as long as I did didn't feel like I was taken seriously but handled. A lot of this situation had more to do with how they dealt with me and timeliness of it than anything...aside from the obvious screw-ups.

 

[Alan]

NorCalDiscoII,

Everything I've said is as accurate as I can be without getting too long winded. I've left quite a bit out and just focused on the major things that happened on this service call.

Like I said, this isn't the first time. I had a problem with something draining my battery during the middle of winter that I couldn't figure out. The only thing I noticed different was that my day time running light module stopped working recently and I mentioned this as a possible cause of this drain. The dealer kept my truck for 3 weeks during the middle of winter (without a loaner) and screwed around with all kinds of systems until the very end when they figured it out and it was in fact the module like I suggested in the beginning. But they only worked on it when they liked. Is that acceptable?

The thing is this isn't a one time occurance but a pattern with this dealer since new ownership took over. Not just with me. I've heard similar stories from many other customers I've talked to.

 

[Alyssa]

I didn't really get that it was 4 weeks later by your post. It sounded like the re-scheduled you for 2 weeks after the first incident, and it sounded like they talked to you every time you talked to them. I don't know your dealer, so I don't know how long they're out on appointments. We have finally gotten ours down to a few days, at most a week. Many dealers are still a month out for an appointment (and that's not just LR... my BMW dealer was 6 weeks out). So, hearing 2 weeks didn't seem that unreasonable. If they purposely scheduled you out much further than they had to, then yes, that's bad. They were putting it off. From what I got, it took you 2 weeks to get your first appointment, then 2 weeks to get your second appointment. Is that correct? If it is, I really don't think they were jerking you around. Again, they could have prevented this all in the first place by doing it correctly the first time. That would have been the right thing to do. What happened stinks, and I think the dealership admitted that. If someone admits they were wrong and apologizes, that goes a long way with me. Mistakes happen. People screw up. Sometimes you just don't get to make a phone call you've been trying to make all day. Sometimes you forget something. Sometimes things don't arrive when they're supposed to. Sometimes things are harder than they should be. Some days it seems like everything goes wrong.
If the dealership was purposely putting you off, not returning your calls, not getting you in even when they had availability, no that wasn't the right way to act.
If that was the case, I'm sorry.
If that wasn't the case, I stand by what I said. They screwed up, but they tried to make it right.
And, no, obviously, I wouldn't put off dealing with a customer's problem for a month, but I think that's a loaded question and not the issue at hand. I'm also in Sales, not Service, so there's a lot less potential for things to go wrong on my end.

 

[Alan]

I my case I had to constantly call to find out what was going on. I called ahead to book an appointment and asked them when it was most convenient for them for me to bring my truck in. I didn't make any demands on timing, just at their earliest convenience. During the work, they either forgot to call me to let me know that my truck wasn't ready or they'd promise me that it'd be done or that a part would arrive or that my truck would be ready at this time or that time and it never happened. I was the one calling to find out what was going on. After that initial screw-up they said they'd get me the "nice" loaner and fix this problem right away. One week would go by and I wouldn't hear from them then two weeks would go by and still nothing until this past (3rd) week when I finally called and asked and that's when they suddenly had their loaner available to me. Basically it came across to me that they figured they better deal with the situation now that I called 3 weeks after the the incident which was already 1 week after the initial appointment.

As for this dealer's schedule, they're not as busy as they used to be. I've seen before where you could actually call on any given day and basically get an appointment that same day or the next. They've had a big drop in business because so many customers have either left or sold their vehicles off. The previous group that owned this dealer was ALWAYS busy and you'd have to book way in advance. Not so with this group. They've even had a LR Canada VP come out and check on them to see why they've had so many complaints logged against them.

 

[frickjp]

So? by that logic, one should expect less services for the buck on an old truck, compared to the new one? That?s brilliant. :bs:

No, that would be reality. An owner of an '03 is much more likely to buy from the dealership again than the owner of a '98. Who do you think should get service first? In no way am I condoning shitty service. Everyone is entitled to get what they pay for. Everyone has a bad day, however. If you suck, you suck. (Booker T. Washington)? said that situations happen to everyone. It's how you handle those situations that define one's character. They took considerable effort to rectify an otherwise poor experience. Very few would have done that much.
Just curious, but how does your Hummer dealership experience compare to Land Rover?

 

[Alan]

"An owner of an '03 is much more likely to buy from the dealership again than the owner of a '98. Who do you think should get service first? "

I'm not sure I understand the theory behind that considering the person who owns a D1 for that length of time, which is on average a more problem prone vehicle than the newer vehicles, has obviously shown that they're willing to stick with the brand. They also know that I'm currently restoring a D90 which I'm buying some of my parts from them too. Considering that, you think I'd be likely to buy again and it's not like I'm some "outside" customer. I bought from them originally. I almost bought a Kalahari Disco from them last summer and on top of that, the last dealer held wheel event, I helped them out with it. This new group had never done anything like that nor was there anyone in the entire dealership with off-road experience. Myself and another customer who I wheel with helped run the event and this past fall we helped them scout some new area they were thinking of going to this coming spring. They also wanted our help scouting some area that my friend and I have been to in the mountains they were thinking of too.

I can understand that everyone has a bad day but this wasn't one day. These events happened over several days and the mistake wasn't made once, it was made at least twice on the same job, not to mention the damage that was done other components in the process (I'm not even talking about the wheels).

 

[NorCalDiscoII]

Just curious, but how does your Hummer dealership experience compare to Land Rover?

Varies greatly from dealer to dealer. Local one has excellent service ? loaner car, friendly, the works. The one I purchased the truck from (3 hrs away) has shit for service with horrible advisers and GM. Luckily I only had to deal with them once to get roof lights installed that had to be done at that dealership? after wasting a full day of my time and incredibly poor service I got nowhere, but at least calling and bitching to HUMMER 800 line yielded a free year of service visits to any dealer.

My local LR dealer is the best I?ve dealt with, waaaay better than anything we?ve experienced experiences with Lexus, BMW, Toyota, and Ford dealers.

 

[dmcwhorter9974]

When i first bought my Disco, my check engine light came on the third day i had it. (Got it used from the dealer.) My heat shield rattled, and my cruise control didnt work. It took 2 trips and 9 days to get it fixed. It was still better service than what i got from my past dealer though. I had to be stern with the guys, but they tried to help me out. When your bringing in a used Disco worth about 12 grand and the place cant even keep $60,000 RR in stock, you have to expect somewhat of a wait. Its just my opinion though.

 

[kennith]

I don't know.

I have no idea how long you have had problems with dealers. My suggestion would be to talk soultions out with the man that gives you a problem. If he can't fix it, go to his supervisor, in this case, the service manager. Only then if the issue is not resolved should you go to the general manager. If you jump the chain of command, the guys that actually do the work don't respect you.

I have always had good service at dealers. It is a rare occasion that I have to schedual an apppointment more than a day or so in advance, most times I can walk in and get something done, my work is always completed that day unless something needs to be ordered, then it is completed the next day. One way or another I always leave with a vehicle to drive around while they do the work, usually a heavily discounted rental, which I ask them to suprise me with so I can try other vehicles.

Of course, I make a point to know the mechanics, show that I am reasonable, and I don't rush them. They are aware that I have done their jobs in the past and they respect me because I know how difficult it is to be a full time mechanic. If there is a delay, I say no worries, and they get it done. The sales teams know me, the general manager, the service manager, and even the desk ladies. I make a point to greet every one of them when I visit, and engage in actual conversation.

I have walked out of a dealer once. I can smell an asshole a mile away, and I smelled one in Cary. I am not saying they are a horrible dealer, they just won't get any of my money, or that of anyone I meet (not that Cary cares). We all go to Cape Fear.

I am not saying you jump to conclusions, but your original post seems to suggest you are quick on the manager button. If you find you get poor service in most places, perhaps a change in behavior is in order. If you recieve wonderful service everywhere else, than further thought on this issue may be required, as well as a dealer swap.

Not a flame, I am just posing thoughts that have been avioded.

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[p m]

No, that would be reality. An owner of an '03 is much more likely to buy from the dealership again than the owner of a '98. Who do you think should get service first?

The person who booked the appointment first. Period.

 

[flyfisher11]

The person who booked the appointment first. Period.

Yep, first come first serve especially if you are swamped. That is the most objective way of scheduling. It ain't rocket science. If you schedule based on the worth or one's vehicle then you are just perpetuating the Land Rover snob perception.

Mike

 

[flyfisher11]

Now for a recent comparison on customer service:

My family and I were just on leave in WNC. While there my wife and kids were on there way up to Mt Mitchell where my mother in law lives. On the way about a mile from her house (way up in the mountains) the transmission went in our 2002 Volvo with 40K miles on it. She managed to put it in manual one and limp it to my mother in law's house. She called Volvo and they immediately asked if everyone was okay then asked where to send the wrecker to pick it up. They wanted to pick it up that night, Wednesday night. My wife asked that they do it in the AM as she wanted to visit with her mom since she was up there anyway. They agreed to pick it up Thursday morning and take it to the nearest Volvo dealer which was in Hendersonville (55 miles away down some serious winding roads). I was in Hendersonville where we were staying at my sister's house. Thursday morning came and my wife said the phone rang at her mom's house and it was Volvo again wondering if the wrecker was there yet. She said no and that the it was no problem that she was just getting up and running. They said they would check on the wrecker and call her back in 30 minutes. They did and the wrecker was there. My kids stayed with grandma and my wife rode with the "good ole boys" in the wrecker down the mountain to the Volvo dealer in Hendersonville NC, Hunter Volvo. Once they got to the dealer, the service manager told my wife not to worry that they would get right on it and call her back. when they new something. Volvo provided a rental car from Enterprise, a Nissan Murano. They picked her up and she came to pick me up at my sister's house. After a few hours we figured that we might want to check on the Volvo. I was on leave and my leave ended Sunday night. Remember this is Thursday afternoon now. We stopped by the dealer and asked the status. The service manager and a mechanic said it didn't look good and that the tranny was going to need to be replaced. He continued that it would probably be four days just to get a tranny. I was a little upset as I did not want to be AWOL or have to extend my leave. He said he would work it with Volvo and get back to us. With the kids at grandma's my wife and I decided to take the Murano off some sweet jumps. Not really but we went out on a date and decided that we were not going to worry about the Volvo for the night. We didn't get a call back that night but the next morning Friday morning we got an early call from the dealer. He said that Volvo didn't call him back Thursday but there was a new transmission sitting at their service door when they showed up that morning. Volvo overnighted an entire transmission! He said that they would get right on it and should be ready by about 2 that afternoon. I knew that was a little fast so I wasn't counting on it, but was impressed none the less with their effort. As I expected they said that they would work it that night (they keep their service department open until 1 AM for work only). They called Saturday morning and said that they had run into a problem and that the newer tranny had some changes to the valve body and that they needed to upload some software updates that they didn't have. Now this was a service manager not the tech. I didn't press as we all know how communication gets messed up. Anyway with that and knowing that I needed to be back to work as well as my wife, without even asking, our service manager said come on down and he would give us a loaner. He did, a 2006 Volvo cross country with only 2k on the dial. He said take it drive it and they would deliver our car when they got it done. WE LIVE 600 MILES AWAY FROM THERE!!!!! We did and we received a call today that our car was ready and that they will have a driver bring it to us and swap cars out the next couple days. Now how is that for customer service? Our 2002 with 40k on the dial that we bought used in PA. We were treated absolutely wonderfully. I just thought that I would share a good dealership story with all the bad ones out there.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[kennith]

Holy crap!

That's good service, Batman.

Cheers,

Kennith