DEALERSHIP Help Please

[RBBailey]

So, I could really use your guys' help on this. It looks like the issue with my oil pump/engine replacement on the 2003 is going to go all the way to the top. I am still hoping someone along the chain will simply say, "Give him a new engine." And it will all turn around.

Bottom line is, Land Rover's own TSB says to replace the engine, no other fix. I have had no luck in finding an alternative, superseding TSB, yet LR Portland insists that replacing the oil pump/eingine cover is good enough for what turns out to be an engine problem causing the oil pump to fail -- so, it will happen again.

It has been at the shop since Tuesday night. We have an 1989 Range Rover Classic, and a 2001 Saab 9-5, but this morning the RRC's sunroof refused to close -- and it is raining. So we are down to one car between two people with two kids, we go to work at the same time only 12 miles apart. And Land Rover won't give us a loaner.

I am taking it to the top today. I hope to hear from the "foreman" at Land Rover Portland. I am also going to call the owner of this particular dealership -- they also own a BMW, etc, etc, dealership. I am sending a certified letter today, and I am calling Land Rover Corporate today.

What I need from all of you is your help, as has already been given by some, by sending me any info you can on this problem occuring. I know that a few of you had your 2003 Disco II's have this same problem, and you either had your engine replaced or didn't, and didn't know that it will happen again. I am very close to pursuing litigation, but am only willing to do so for the cost of a new engine -- per Land Rover's own documentation. If you have had this problem dealt with, please scan or photograph your service records and email them to me. I need all the documentation I can find to go to them with.

Technically speaking, I have already won the arguement, there is no other trump card that they have, except simply refusing to do the work...

Thanks,

 

[Bruno]

Ben, why is the dealer refusing to perform the repair (that they would be fully paid for from LR) as outlined on the TA ?

What reason are they giving you for not following the procedure that LR specifies (and pays for) ?

 

[RBBailey]

Check out my thread about "raising a stink at the dealership".

 

[Kacers]

I would continue your efforts beyond the dealership - focus on Corp or HQ. I had a similar issue with my old Lexus and the dealership kept stonewalling. So, I sent a letter via email to their HQ division and copied the dealership. HQ responded within 24 hours and the Dealership owner called me later that night - and he seemed quite upset that this had not been resolved and this his 'upper mgmt' had been engaged.

Basically, the HQ side just wants this fixed and pushes back down to the dealer asking them why they can't take care of their customers. It makes the dealer look really bad so use that to your advantage. Why do you think they always ask you to given them a good score when the survey comes???

Note - be sure to be professional and state your case clearly and what you expect them to do. Use names of people who you talked to and who told you what the dealership's position was and is. Also reference that you are an avid fan and post on numerous websites regarding Rovers (mention them also).

AndrewT

 

[Bruno]

Check out my thread about "raising a stink at the dealership".

So they are claiming that there is a revised TA (from LR) for satisfactory repair of the failure.

You have asked to see the "revised" TA and they have refused to show it to you.

You have insisted on seing this "revised" procedure document and they simply will not show it to you. why not ?

This makes absolutely no sense. They have performed a repair with disregard for LR procedures, how will they be paid for a waranty repair that is done "outside" of LR specified course of action ?

It seems that the dealer would have much more to gain from following the TA which instructs them to R&R the motor. They would have a satisfied customer, more labor hrs to collect from LR, and full basis for submitting the warranty claim to LR.

Is the dealer concerned that they might not collect for the repairs they have done thus far (due to their lack of information) ? is that part of the issue ?

Have you taken the time to look for this mysterious "revised" TA on the GTR tech site ?

 

[Bruno]

Looks like you checked GTR.

Land Rover's Tech Web Site shows the TA/TSB that says I need a new engine, but it does not show any other superseding documentation.......

 

[RBBailey]

So they are claiming that there is a revised TA (from LR) for satisfactory repair of the failure.

You have asked to see the "revised" TA and they have refused to show it to you.

You have insisted on seing this "revised" procedure document and they simply will not show it to you. why not ?

This makes absolutely no sense. They have performed a repair with disregard for LR procedures, how will they be paid for a waranty repair that is done "outside" of LR specified course of action ?

It seems that the dealer would have much more to gain from following the TA which instructs them to R&R the motor. They would have a satisfied customer, more labor hrs to collect from LR, and full basis for submitting the warranty claim to LR.

Is the dealer concerned that they might not collect for the repairs they have done thus far (due to their lack of information) ? is that part of the issue ?

Have you taken the time to look for this mysterious "revised" TA on the GTR tech site ?

Ya, it makes no sense! I mean, an engine is big repair, but not really to the company as a whole... I have no evidence at all that any type of repair supsedes the TA that both they and I have -- they told me they have the same one I have! They also told me that they repaired it according to the "new" superseded specifications. I looked at the service records and only saw a replacement of the oil pump, etc, which does not fix the problem. I specifically said that I do not know of any supersedance of the TA in my hand, and she simply said that the mechanic says that it is fixed in accordance with the supersedance in publication now... so no, they had the opportunity to show me such documentation and could not produce it.

 

[eric]

I had the same problem, my '03 was replaced with an '04 (after being in the shop 4 times trying to solve severe engine vibration at low rpm.) I got lucky, but I did raise hell. Went up the ladder sending registered, notarized letters to regional & national management.
Good Luck.

 

[cwdavis4]

Have you tried to contact the owner / president of the dealership yet?

From bbb.org:
Mr Gregory Rasmussen , President
Service Contact: Mr Dan Muggli , General Manager

There is a Greg Rasmussen listed in the Portland Area.
4063 SW 57th Portland OR 972212031

I'm not sure if this would help but normally when a company pisses me off I try all angles - corp, BBB, maybe even the local news ("consumer" on your side angle).

BTW, I have a '03 Disco when a similar problem and pretty sure I got a new engine. It happen over a year ago while I was down in Phoenix, AZ but I remember since the total bill and it was around $10-12K! Glad that was covered under warranty.

The funny thing was when it happen I was concerned how long it would take to get a new engine in but the service mgr said they try to keep 1-2 in stock since they have been replacing them for this issue. Yikes!

I'll try to find the service record tonight and scan them in for you.

Good luck!

 

[Bruno]

I would push to determine why they are resisting to perform the engine R&R, there must be some underlying issue there.

I mean, the TA clearly states that the engine must be replaced, and LR will pay for the repair under warranty, assuming that there is (in fact) no revision to the contrary, i cannot see any reason (monetary or otherwise) for the dealer to not follow the Mfg's TA.

They may not be able to collect from LR for the work they have done so far, (if they now proceed with the TA as outlined) and this may be a stumbling block for you to overcome.

I would be tempted to offer a compromise out-of-pocket payment offer if it seems that they are concerned about losing the parts/labor revenue for the work completed so far.

If in fact there is a revised TA then i would fully understand their resistance to install a new motor because they would not be reinbursed for the cost of the repair from LR.

 

[RBBailey]

I would push to determine why they are resisting to perform the engine R&R, there must be some underlying issue there.

I mean, the TA clearly states that the engine must be replaced, and LR will pay for the repair under warranty, assuming that there is (in fact) no revision to the contrary, i cannot see any reason (monetary or otherwise) for the dealer to not follow the Mfg's TA.

They may not be able to collect from LR for the work they have done so far, (if they now proceed with the TA as outlined) and this may be a stumbling block for you to overcome.

I would be tempted to offer a compromise out-of-pocket payment offer if it seems that they are concerned about losing the parts/labor revenue for the work completed so far.

If in fact there is a revised TA then i would fully understand their resistance to install a new motor because they would not be reinbursed for the cost of the repair from LR.

I agree with you. However, who's job is it to make sure the job is carried out according to LR's specs? Mine? Therefore, the job of repairing the vehicle in the "wrong" way is all on them! Even I figured out that it would need a new engine before the called me back to say the work was done -- it ain't that hard!

 

[Bruno]

Therefore, the job of repairing the vehicle in the "wrong" way is all on them! Even I figured out that it would need a new engine before the called me back to say the work was done -- it ain't that hard!

Agreed, the job should have been carried out as specified on LR's TA, but it wasn't.

If that proves to be the underlying reason why they are now refusing to carry out the work on the TA (they don't want to eat the invested work they have in your truck so far) then as i stated, it would be in your best interest to somehow overcome that stumbling block.

 

[RBBailey]

The shop foreman from LR Portland just called me and told me that the service conducted was good enough, that he believes the oil pump and cover fit the engine block in on the vehicles that have this problem AND on the ones that don't.

He said that he called his regional supervisor and got confirmation of the fact that, although LR does not actually have the paperwork ("Land Rover isn't that great on paper work issues...") that the new way of fixing it is approved and it is the way to do it.

I am still waiting to hear from corporate.

Should I write a letter that states that I do not agree that it has been repaired according to Land Rover's own TSB/TA, and that I expect to be contacted when my engine is ready to be installed so that my vehicle will be properly repaired. I would then have the Service Manager sign it before taking posession of my truck. I have a feeling they won't go for it, but hey, at least I will be able to drive my own truck without renting -- which they already told us they will not pay for.

 

[Bruno]

He said that he called his regional supervisor and got confirmation of the fact that, although LR does not actually have the paperwork ("Land Rover isn't that great on paper work issues...") that the new way of fixing it is approved and it is the way to do it.

If in fact a LR field supervisor has been contacted and the dealer was given the above information regarding the repair, then that would fully explain their (the dealers) position regarding the TA.

They will not be payed (from LR) for the engine replacement under warranty and are not willing (understandably), to buy you a new motor.

You will have little recourse if in fact the work performed was in line with LR's own policy for corrective action.

 

[alex3324]

I'm still trying to figure out why there are three threads on this BBS for the same problem, from the same poster. Why all the discussion to a "What-If?" Does your D2 drive and run as it's supposed to? Be happy with the service they've provided you. Quit trying to go around the dealer because they've given you an answer you don't want to hear. If you have future problems with the main bearings, oil pump, camshaft, then bring it up to LRNA.

 

[PPiazza]

If in fact a LR field supervisor has been contacted and the dealer was given the above information regarding the repair, then that would fully explain their (the dealers) position regarding the TA.

They will not be payed (from LR) for the engine replacement under warranty and are not willing (understandably), to buy you a new motor.

You will have little recourse if in fact the work performed was in line with LR's own policy for corrective action.

I call BS on their part. I would either start a email and letter writing campain to Land Rover USA. I would go around the district manager and go to the top. I would also tate what they have told you. If you dont see any solution within a given time frame I would then get some legal help.

Since it was an oil pump that blew, ask for a extended warrantee on the motor.

Here are some names found on the internet that may help to write too. Better yet call and varify addess.

Matthew Taylor Managing Director of Land Rover
Ben Weiner, Customer Satisfaction Manager for Land Rover North America

 

[NVRover]

Does anyone have any email addresses for Mr Taylor or Weiner? I have an issue with LRNA and Land Rover Little Rock not wanting to fix some underbody corrosion with the 7 yr 70k mile corrosion warranty.

Ben, good luck...sorry to hijack your thread.

Chris

 

[alex3324]

Does anyone have any email addresses for Mr Taylor or Weiner? I have an issue with LRNA and Land Rover Little Rock not wanting to fix some underbody corrosion with the 7 yr 70k mile corrosion warranty.
Chris

Chris - what's your issue with the dealer; why wont they honor the warranty? Did you have your owner's manual stamped at the required intervals indicating the rust inspection was conducted? With that documentation, I don't see how they could deny a claim.

 

[RBBailey]

I'm still trying to figure out why there are three threads on this BBS for the same problem, from the same poster. Why all the discussion to a "What-If?" Does your D2 drive and run as it's supposed to? Be happy with the service they've provided you. Quit trying to go around the dealer because they've given you an answer you don't want to hear. If you have future problems with the main bearings, oil pump, camshaft, then bring it up to LRNA.

Because of the LR Service Bulletin that states:

"Whenever an oil pump failure is encountered on vehicles within the above VIN range the only effective repair currently available is replacement of the complete engine assembly..."

So, if they can show that they have LR documentation that shows that this new fix is what is supposed to happen... well, no problem.

Basically, as it is, I have every reason to believe that this will happen again. And if I do my math right, it will probably, likely happen just after my warrantee is expired. At that point, I will have to take a loss on the vehicle and either sell it as is or simply put it into storage and find another car to drive. I would not have bought this car if I didn't have a warranty.

 

[RBBailey]

You will have little recourse if in fact the work performed was in line with LR's own policy for corrective action.

I don't want recourse outside of their policy. I have the document that states their policy, they don't have any documents that override this, so, what is the deal?