Disc Brake Conversion

[LR Max]

Well I have gone through another set of brake shoes, and I want to convert to disc brakes. Pads are cheaper and a lot easier to install. Not to mention better braking, etc.

Word on the street is earlier RRC hub components will bolt (well, close enough) right up. Allowing me to use the standard rover calipers and discs. I figure that is good enough, expecially if I go with 2-pot calipers in the rear instead of the 1-pot like those new fangled coilers have .

Any speculation? The Zues kit, actually seems a hell of a lot easier. The only thing is all I want is the adapter plate and hardware. I'll get the rotor and caliper locally since it would be a lot cheaper. Any reviews on that kit? Their website said they were shy about sending their kit to America, which is sad because they could make a fortune.

So what do ya'll think?

 

[Paul Grant]

For what it's worth, as a more cost effective alternative to Rovers North's disc brake conversion kit, DAP offers a kit for less than half the price. I have no idea what their kit consists of but, if I were in the market I'd check out what they have to offer.

 

[Brian...]

ahhh...brakes

The Zeus kit is nice if you could source the pads and rotors in the US, although, for that price you could almost go with a BCB setup except you would still have to source Defender/RR rotors and calipers. Comes out a bit more, but is pretty sweet.

I think that you can bolt the entire swivel assembly from the early RR to the Series which would make it rather easy to do. Granted that the swivel is a bit weaker but that is probably inconsequential for the most part. Or just utilize the RR spindles, hubs, and rotors and make up some brackets for the calipers. That would probably be the most cost effective method aside from coming up with an American caliper and blank rotor combination.

brian...

 

[leafsprung]

discs

1) Discs arent as easy as bolting on a RR hub (if only)
2) the swivel pattern is different but you "could" graft them together by welding and reindexing the pattern
3)The RR swivel housing wont fit the series swivel ball
4) Zeus uses proprietary rotors and calipers so just the bracket wouldnt do you any good.
5) Even if you grafted the swivels on your steering linkage would be on the back of the axle unless you got some home market swivvels.

 

[Blueboy]

nice to see you back on the Series section Ike.


Jaime

 

[u352]

http://www.zeus.uk.com/

is this the place?

Better yet http://www.zeus.uk.com/brake.htm

What size are 6j rims?

 

[ISUZUROVER]

You can make your own mounts and machine and drill the back of the hubs to accept RR rotors and calipers. Have a look here (pics down the bottom).

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modules/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=37883

 

[p m]

What's wrong with swapping in complete RR axles?

 

[RPGreg2600]

The drum brakes work just fine if it's all set up right, and you could replace your shoes every year and never spend as much money as it costs for the disc brake conversion. Besides, the brake shoes on a land rover are extremely easy to replace.

 

[Leslie]

What's wrong with swapping in complete RR axles?

Well, that is possible, but to do it right needs a lit of work....

First, you have to either weld perches on the coiler axles for the leafs, or else you have to convert the suspension over to coils by cobbling together modifications to alter the chassis to be similar to the Designa chassis.

If you're on a stock 2.25 motor, the 3.54 diffs aren't gonna be the best for the Series, you'd have to swap the diffs out to keep it usable.

The coiler axle is a bit wider than the leaf-axles, so you end up with rubbing on the outside unless you either shorten the axle tube and axles, or swap to wheels with a different spacing, but to move the wheels in instead of out is opposite of most wheels available, so you'd have to go custom there. Or, open the opening up and add fender flares to make it more like a Defender.

So, to do a full axle swap ends up being a lot of fab-work to get it to work well; a bolt-on kit would be the easier route.

And while disc brakes are better than drums, I have to concur with Greg, that for a Series, at the speeds that a Series should be driven at, the drums can work quite well.. just take the time to set them up right, and it would be fine.


-L

 

[p m]

Les, I've just got the RR axles under the '68 Wag - don't think a Series would be much more difficult.

 

[Leslie]

The Wag is wider, tho'...

You went through the same things, since the Wag's on leafs, too, but the gearing was more suitable for the drivetrain.

Why go to RR axles, tho'? If you're going to the trouble of swapping, there are stronger axles out there than Rangie ones......




-L

 

[p m]

If I knew that a rear axle from an Isuzu Trooper was about the same width, same diff offset, same axle attachment (SOA), and disk brakes - I might have used that and a front disk D44 (74-77 SJ). Would've had 6x5.5 bolt pattern.

.. but I didn't know that, and used my chance to recycle a lot of Rover hardware laying around

Now the Wag's brakes feel nearly better than the Disco's!

 

[ISUZUROVER]

In that big long list you forgot the most important (and only real) issue - which is that the RR track rod wants to be where the leaf springs are, so you either have to do a SOA at the same time or fit a RHD swivel housing to one side and put the track rod in front.

Welding perches onto a coiler axle is easy, swapping in a coiler chassis is easy too if you have the time. So is swapping 4.7's into RR housings.

Well, that is possible, but to do it right needs a lit of work....

First, you have to either weld perches on the coiler axles for the leafs, or else you have to convert the suspension over to coils by cobbling together modifications to alter the chassis to be similar to the Designa chassis.

If you're on a stock 2.25 motor, the 3.54 diffs aren't gonna be the best for the Series, you'd have to swap the diffs out to keep it usable.

The coiler axle is a bit wider than the leaf-axles, so you end up with rubbing on the outside unless you either shorten the axle tube and axles, or swap to wheels with a different spacing, but to move the wheels in instead of out is opposite of most wheels available, so you'd have to go custom there. Or, open the opening up and add fender flares to make it more like a Defender.

So, to do a full axle swap ends up being a lot of fab-work to get it to work well; a bolt-on kit would be the easier route.

And while disc brakes are better than drums, I have to concur with Greg, that for a Series, at the speeds that a Series should be driven at, the drums can work quite well.. just take the time to set them up right, and it would be fine.


-L

 

[antichrist]

The drum brakes work just fine if it's all set up right, and you could replace your shoes every year and never spend as much money as it costs for the disc brake conversion. Besides, the brake shoes on a land rover are extremely easy to replace.

FWIW I drove only series Rovers when I lived in the mountains of VT and never had a single problem with fading brakes, even fully loaded on downgrades that were long and step enough to require several truck escape ramps. Keeping them properly adjusted and using the proper gear works wonders.

 

[p m]

In that big long list you forgot the most important (and only real) issue - which is that the RR track rod wants to be where the leaf springs are, so you either have to do a SOA at the same time or fit a RHD swivel housing to one side and put the track rod in front.

Ben, this is exactly what I've done. But it's not all there's to it - if you use drag link arms on the knuckles to attach the tie rod, you'll end up with a badly screwed Ackerman angle. That is, you will have severe turn-in toe-in, as opposed to normal turn-in toe-out. The RR tie rod is shorted than kingpin-to-kingpin distance and placed behind the axle normally - to put one in front of the axle, it would have to be longer than kingpin-to-kingpin distance.
This is what I ended up with - http://3rj.com/auto/68wag/axleconversion/frontRangeRover.jpg

 

[Leslie]

Welding perches onto a coiler axle is easy, swapping in a coiler chassis is easy too if you have the time. So is swapping 4.7's into RR housings.

You've made the assumption he knows how to weld, tho'.... I wholly concur, swapping diffs isn't brain surgery, or even chassis swaps.... but, you have to consider the person who will be doing this.... a bolt-on brake conversion is a much simpler task than swapping axles, which was my original point..... with Rovers, anything is possible, tho'.....

-L

 

[ISUZUROVER]

Ben, this is exactly what I've done. But it's not all there's to it - if you use drag link arms on the knuckles to attach the tie rod, you'll end up with a badly screwed Ackerman angle. That is, you will have severe turn-in toe-in, as opposed to normal turn-in toe-out. The RR tie rod is shorted than kingpin-to-kingpin distance and placed behind the axle normally - to put one in front of the axle, it would have to be longer than kingpin-to-kingpin distance.
This is what I ended up with - http://3rj.com/auto/68wag/axleconversion/frontRangeRover.jpg

Interesting mod to fix the Ackerman Peter. I know a few people who run reverse ackerman, and say that the on-road effects are not really noticeable (especially on a series), and off-road it gives a better turning circle. I have yet to try it myself though, what about you?

Leslie, you are right, but even paying someone to do the mods to a coiler front axle would probably come out the same (or less) than the cost of most bolt-on disc conversions, and then you have the added advantage of wider track.

 

[p m]

Ben,

I once owned a British Ford Transit van - bought it in Scotland with right hand drive for my bro-in-law. He crashed it soon, and rebuilt - and in process decided to make it a LHD. The guy who did the job just flipped the axle around, and the tie rod ended up on the "other" side of the axle (reverse Ackerman angle). Soon, my bro-in-law decided that he couldn't ever drive the thing, and sold it back to me.

Let me tell you - it was by far the most dangerous vehicle to drive. You could not take your hands off the steering wheel for a moment because of severe oversteer; in sharp turns, I had to fight the steering from getting itself in full lock. It would also drag the front wheels in turns - on ice (that my homeland has plenty of in winter) it would be outright uncontrollable. Basically, this conversion ruined a perfectly good vehicle - before the crash and rebuild, I wouldn't hesitate to bring it up to 90mph on the highway; after, my "standard" to take it out on a long trip was whether I deemed 50mph safe enough.

Keep in mind that it had a pretty decent wheelbase, about 110 in. - on a SWB rig, reverse Ackerman would make things worse even.

 

[ISUZUROVER]

Interesting...

A guy called Bill ("portalrover" on www.pirate4x4.com and "daddylonglegs" on www.outerlimits4x4.com) I know in Australia has been running reverse ackerman on a 90" ish wheelbase, heavily modified IIA, and claims that it has no adverse effects (search for his username on either of the forums above if you want to read his accounts). One of the rovers he built was just voted modified 4x4 of the year in Oz.

Ben.

Ben,

I once owned a British Ford Transit van - bought it in Scotland with right hand drive for my bro-in-law. He crashed it soon, and rebuilt - and in process decided to make it a LHD. The guy who did the job just flipped the axle around, and the tie rod ended up on the "other" side of the axle (reverse Ackerman angle). Soon, my bro-in-law decided that he couldn't ever drive the thing, and sold it back to me.

Let me tell you - it was by far the most dangerous vehicle to drive. You could not take your hands off the steering wheel for a moment because of severe oversteer; in sharp turns, I had to fight the steering from getting itself in full lock. It would also drag the front wheels in turns - on ice (that my homeland has plenty of in winter) it would be outright uncontrollable. Basically, this conversion ruined a perfectly good vehicle - before the crash and rebuild, I wouldn't hesitate to bring it up to 90mph on the highway; after, my "standard" to take it out on a long trip was whether I deemed 50mph safe enough.

Keep in mind that it had a pretty decent wheelbase, about 110 in. - on a SWB rig, reverse Ackerman would make things worse even.