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Driving technique - rocks
- Thread starter mikem
- Start date
Airing down definetly helps on rocks and even loose dirt trails. Years ago I tagged along with So Cal Land Rover to Rhower Flats. We all stopped at the bottom of a long steep hill and a few people in the group gave it a shot. I noticed most people did not air down. First thaey tried creeping up the hill as you should. After several failed attempts and a near roll over in a D90 a few tried the brute strength route and gunned it up the hill bouncing all the way. Did they make it? Yes. Was it safe? Probably not. I asked if they had aired down and they all said no. One of them said with speed and lockers you dont need to air down. What???. Well not being a member of the club at that time I did not want them waiting on me while I tried it so we moved on up the trail. A week later I went back to the same hill in my wifes bone stock 1994 Disco with factory Michelins. I tried it once with normal pressure taking the slow approuch, no success. Next time I aired down to about 18 psi and crawled up the hill with hardley a tire spin and made it with ease.
I am a firm beliver in airing down and going slow. It keeps your tires in contact with the ground, reduces bounces, easier to maintain control of your truck and reduces the chance of damage to your vehicle. Have I ever spun a tire because of low pressure? Sure. See attached picture. But overall I think it is the best way to go.
I am a firm beliver in airing down and going slow. It keeps your tires in contact with the ground, reduces bounces, easier to maintain control of your truck and reduces the chance of damage to your vehicle. Have I ever spun a tire because of low pressure? Sure. See attached picture. But overall I think it is the best way to go.
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Kelly, you're starting with
I am fully aware of traction gains with lower air pressure - but it's all good if you're on a weekend trail run close to home (or nearest tire store), with plenty of other trucks around.
, but the rest of your post is about loose hillclimbs.
I am fully aware of traction gains with lower air pressure - but it's all good if you're on a weekend trail run close to home (or nearest tire store), with plenty of other trucks around.
I would think a GOOD off road tire should be able to be aired down to 18psi or so. At least I hope so because I air mine down everytime I go to a rocky area. I have done so for more trips than I can count with no problems. Yes they have some cuts and stuff on them but I would think thats gonna happen anyway. I haven't pealed a tire off the rim so far but thats what the spare is for right!? I know that the truxus is a 8ply tire and is supposed to have tough sidewalls so either I'm extremely lucky or airing down that tire is o.k.
Peter,
I said it helps on rocks and even loose dirt. I have gone thousands of miles in the Sierras and the Mojave with only one incident that I can blame on low tire pressure. As to being in a group or close to a tire store or civilization, I don't understand what you are getting at? I carry a repair kit a with tire plugs, fix-a-flat, cheapo compressor and i have a fully funcional spare tire. If you cant do a field repair you should not be out on the trail. I have had sidewall blowouts 4 inches long that I was able to use plugs plus fix-aflat on and get me home no problem. There is no question that you run a slightly higher risk of side wall damage but there is also no question as to the great benefits of airing down. If your argument is that you shouldn't air down because you run a risk of tire damage then I think that is a weak argument. You run the risk of tire damage at any pressure.
I said it helps on rocks and even loose dirt. I have gone thousands of miles in the Sierras and the Mojave with only one incident that I can blame on low tire pressure. As to being in a group or close to a tire store or civilization, I don't understand what you are getting at? I carry a repair kit a with tire plugs, fix-a-flat, cheapo compressor and i have a fully funcional spare tire. If you cant do a field repair you should not be out on the trail. I have had sidewall blowouts 4 inches long that I was able to use plugs plus fix-aflat on and get me home no problem. There is no question that you run a slightly higher risk of side wall damage but there is also no question as to the great benefits of airing down. If your argument is that you shouldn't air down because you run a risk of tire damage then I think that is a weak argument. You run the risk of tire damage at any pressure.
Peter,
That is a tire shredder for sure but I can just imagine tires spinning at full pressure, shredding the luggs on the tread. I would still air down and creep up that thing to keep my tires from spinning. And no I don't have lockers, at least not yet.
That is a tire shredder for sure but I can just imagine tires spinning at full pressure, shredding the luggs on the tread. I would still air down and creep up that thing to keep my tires from spinning. And no I don't have lockers, at least not yet.
![P1010059_[1].jpg](/data/attachments/0/450-66d1e9c0777a16923750afd6def4e0b0.jpg)
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outdoorfever
Guest
I have ripped two tires due to low tire pressure. And these are 5 inch rips, nothing small. Granted I probably had the incorrect tires on..I never had that problem with my Yokohamas. I think it depends on tire style and what kind of rock your doing. It definately helps tho.
4" long sidewall cuts patched by tire plugs? I have a shitload to learn... I have a near-perfect 35" tire with a single little hole in the sidewall (caught on the tree root while aired down), used two plugs in it, and it keeps leaking air and no tire shop would even work on it.
Cheapo compressor is only good to imitate moskito drone; if you lose a bead, you need a serious air source. I've only seen two - converted York a/c compressor, and CO2 tank (which I always have with me). Fix-a-flat is by far the best tool to get people at tire repair places pissed (although I admit to having used several).
What often happens after losing a bead is you run over the bead with your rim - and cut or severely bend the bead in process. End up with near-perfect tire that just turned to junk.
Kevin, this is Lightning Peak trail near Big Bear City - you can give it a shot. Your additional excitement comes from off-camber on this climb - so you can't get a full benefit of airing down (treads wrap under the wheels), but your sidewalls are exposed and grinding against these sharp little rocks (between football and basketball size). Any wrinkle in the sidewall gets caught and gashed, just like on Perry's photo. That is exactly how I ripped the sidewall of a Futura in Colorado, and three others in other places.kellymoe said:
Actually, the only thing I noticed capable of ripping off lugs (on a regular basis) is corners of bodywork.
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Peter,
The Fix-a-flat and cheapo comressor have gotten me out of some very cruddy places. I warn the tire shop of any tires that I used Fix-a-flat in. The Co2 tank is on my list of things to buy but two young kids take priority over this kind of stuff right now, although I could try and convince my wife that buying a Co2 tank is a safety issue
. Steve Cooper of I think it is www.landroverstuff.com used a Co2 tank set up with air tools to take my tire off on Miller Jeep trail a few months ago, way cool and fast. As to the 4 inch rip. One plug at a time letting the glue dry before putting the next one in and then a few cans of fix-a-flat. I drove from Lippencott Mine road in the Saline Valley back to Burbank with the plugs in and I only had compression in 2 of 4 cylinders in my 1969 iia Land Rover.
Bottom line? Like the Boy Scouts say "Be Prepared"
The Fix-a-flat and cheapo comressor have gotten me out of some very cruddy places. I warn the tire shop of any tires that I used Fix-a-flat in. The Co2 tank is on my list of things to buy but two young kids take priority over this kind of stuff right now, although I could try and convince my wife that buying a Co2 tank is a safety issue
. Steve Cooper of I think it is www.landroverstuff.com used a Co2 tank set up with air tools to take my tire off on Miller Jeep trail a few months ago, way cool and fast. As to the 4 inch rip. One plug at a time letting the glue dry before putting the next one in and then a few cans of fix-a-flat. I drove from Lippencott Mine road in the Saline Valley back to Burbank with the plugs in and I only had compression in 2 of 4 cylinders in my 1969 iia Land Rover. Bottom line? Like the Boy Scouts say "Be Prepared"
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Mike,
You looked like you were doing better on Niagra Rim than me. Looks like the CDL is a big help. I was definitely spinning a lot more than you were with only my traction control going.
I don't know what you had your tires at but I origially left mine at about 50 psi that I run on the street. Way too much spin, so at lunch I aired them down to 28 psi all around. When we went on the 2nd part of the trail I considered airing down some more but I was having so much fun using my skid plates, scraping paint off the ARB steps (haha), and watching everyone else trying to get up that hill that I never did air them down more.
My Geolander 2's definitely don't give much in the way of traction in that stuff either. Next time I get tires I'm going some other direction. Probably would have been better if I'd lowered the pressure more.
Positives for me was I didn't have to winch or get pulled with the tow strap, which made my day and the ARB steps are a lot tougher than I would have guessed. With all the racket I expected them to be mangled but I only scraped off paint. Negative is replacing the air bags with springs reduced by rear clearance enough when loaded to where I was whacking the rear bumper more than last year. Saturday I'll try and straighten it back up.
Anyway I had plenty of fun which is the most important thing.
John Hamblin
You looked like you were doing better on Niagra Rim than me. Looks like the CDL is a big help. I was definitely spinning a lot more than you were with only my traction control going.
I don't know what you had your tires at but I origially left mine at about 50 psi that I run on the street. Way too much spin, so at lunch I aired them down to 28 psi all around. When we went on the 2nd part of the trail I considered airing down some more but I was having so much fun using my skid plates, scraping paint off the ARB steps (haha), and watching everyone else trying to get up that hill that I never did air them down more.
My Geolander 2's definitely don't give much in the way of traction in that stuff either. Next time I get tires I'm going some other direction. Probably would have been better if I'd lowered the pressure more.
Positives for me was I didn't have to winch or get pulled with the tow strap, which made my day and the ARB steps are a lot tougher than I would have guessed. With all the racket I expected them to be mangled but I only scraped off paint. Negative is replacing the air bags with springs reduced by rear clearance enough when loaded to where I was whacking the rear bumper more than last year. Saturday I'll try and straighten it back up.
Anyway I had plenty of fun which is the most important thing.
John Hamblin
I agree, airing down is key. I do 20 psi:
http://www.expeditionexchange.com/bbrr4/IMG_1275.JPG
As for boulders and rocks, sometimes I look forward:
http://www.expeditionexchange.com/mutauflat/DSC01804.jpg
and sometimes I look backward:
http://www.expeditionexchange.com/mutauflat/DSC01793.jpg
I have forgotten this on many occasions, but always remember that the part of your truck that hangs the lowest is the tires, and not your diff. There are times where it's more convenient to just drive over something as opposed to driving around it or guessing where your diff is going to be as you go over a rock.
http://www.expeditionexchange.com/mutauflat/DSC05091.JPG
Lastly, don't be afraid to ask for a spot if you lose track of a rock or boulder.
http://www.expeditionexchange.com/bbrr4/DSC01571.jpg
http://www.expeditionexchange.com/bbrr4/IMG_1275.JPG
As for boulders and rocks, sometimes I look forward:
http://www.expeditionexchange.com/mutauflat/DSC01804.jpg
and sometimes I look backward:
http://www.expeditionexchange.com/mutauflat/DSC01793.jpg
I have forgotten this on many occasions, but always remember that the part of your truck that hangs the lowest is the tires, and not your diff. There are times where it's more convenient to just drive over something as opposed to driving around it or guessing where your diff is going to be as you go over a rock.
http://www.expeditionexchange.com/mutauflat/DSC05091.JPG
Lastly, don't be afraid to ask for a spot if you lose track of a rock or boulder.
http://www.expeditionexchange.com/bbrr4/DSC01571.jpg
Discokayaker said:Nobody airs down on difficult trails. . .
I air down to 16-18 PSI with 235/85-16 which are load range E. In fact I will not run a tire that is not load range E. I air down on almost anything, but a dirt road and if there is really bad washboard and some distance, will aridown there too. Doing so will actually reduce your chance of puncture (even sidewall) and help the tire to better conform to the terrain, thus improve traction.
I am a bit careful airing down. I'll go to 25 PSI right off the highway and then check after about 30 minutes since the tire has cooled down.
I can also understand being a bit conservative with this if you are really far from any help or alone.
Brian
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D
DiscoDino
Guest
Well,
"It depends"...
Crawling is key, and selecting the best line so that only 4 contact patches from your truck are in contact with the truck is important - your tires.
Speacking of them, airing down is important, just know that the sidewalls will be beaten to death, and then some. I usually go to 10psi on the Simex 35s as they have very hard sidewalls that usually pop off quite frequently and 6psi with the IROK 36s - non have beadlocks. The IROKs have yet to pop off.
Your suspension and lockers will really help you through as this is the sort of terrain that can break ost parts of the drivetrain and the least amount of resistance from the terrain will allow you to use the least engine power, and therefore crawl through.
"It depends"...
Crawling is key, and selecting the best line so that only 4 contact patches from your truck are in contact with the truck is important - your tires.
Speacking of them, airing down is important, just know that the sidewalls will be beaten to death, and then some. I usually go to 10psi on the Simex 35s as they have very hard sidewalls that usually pop off quite frequently and 6psi with the IROK 36s - non have beadlocks. The IROKs have yet to pop off.
Your suspension and lockers will really help you through as this is the sort of terrain that can break ost parts of the drivetrain and the least amount of resistance from the terrain will allow you to use the least engine power, and therefore crawl through.
Airing down with stocker tires helps tremendously with traction.
My first trip to Truckhaven I encountered a hill that I absolutely could not climb with my tires at stock pressure:
http://www.expeditionexchange.com/corva2003/DSC02905.jpg
After John called me a sucka and tossed me some Stauns, I aired down and made it up the hill without incident.
My first trip to Truckhaven I encountered a hill that I absolutely could not climb with my tires at stock pressure:
http://www.expeditionexchange.com/corva2003/DSC02905.jpg
After John called me a sucka and tossed me some Stauns, I aired down and made it up the hill without incident.