dropping a TDi engine into a disco/defender...

[scubaman99]

I read this on the Norcalrover site today. Apparently Michael Green (Owner of West Coast British). Recently contacted CARB (emissions governing body in CA) about dropping in diesel engines into late model Land Rovers... here is the answer he got back:

Diesel Engine Swaps in California. Oct 10, 2006

I just got off the phone with the California Air Recourses Board concerning TDI Land Rover engines; 200TDI, 300TDI and TD5 for use in California in emission type vehicles.

The reason I did this was due in part to the many calls and e-mails we have received asking about such a conversions to NAS Land Rover vehicles. There also seems to be a number of people/companies that are importing, selling and fitting these engines in to NAS vehicles (so we are told daily).

The end result of the conversation was; These engines are illegal to fit/use (for highway use) into any NAS Land Rover vehicle 1987 to date, in the State of California (while Federal EPA laws prohibit the use in all states). These engines have not been certified in the USA, and certainly not in California.

We talked about these people and shops (no names given) that are importing and fitting TDI engines into late model Land Rovers (post 1987 for US Market)... and, "as the smog programs in CA goes further into the future, and diesels are brought into the Smog Check program, these vehicles will be caught." To those people that fit them in California, DMV may consider them "on par with bogus registration."

Get into an accident and your insurance company can deal you (TDI owners) a poor hand by saying, "this is not the vehicle we insured" (it started life with a gas V8 engine and now has an illegal diesel fitted). This can lead to them dropping your coverage, among other things.

When buying a diesel powered Land Rover of 1975 and newer, beware and ask questions BEFORE you buy.

What CARB did say, and we know for fact is; If you want to convert your (let's say) 1999 Land Rover Discovery to a diesel engine, you can only fit a engine that complies with emission regulations of 1999 or newer, for the same weight category (light truck). If you chose to fit a 2005 engine into the 1999 vehicle, you must now meet 2005 regulations. Check local laws and with CARB and EPA (if Federal) for more information.

 

[sisukid1975]

So the message is clear:

Move to a real state. :rofl:

 

[az_max]

Az doesn't ask what year engine it is, so as long as it meets emissions for the year of the vehicle, it's good. I'm not sure about gas to diesel swaps though.

 

[scubaman99]

So the message is clear:

Move to a real state. :rofl:

read... "These engines are illegal to fit/use (for highway use) into any NAS Land Rover vehicle 1987 to date, in the State of California (while Federal EPA laws prohibit the use in all states). These engines have not been certified in the USA, and certainly not in California."

The TD engines were not Federally EPA certified... so "technically", they are not legal anywhere in the US

bummer....

 

[RBBailey]

Then how is it that the feds can certify companies to do imports of vehicles that have these engines?

This is yet another monkey thrown in the confusing pot of EPA regs on things like this. The fact is, the Feds DO certify these engines, they DO allow for import, and so do several of the states. That's not to say that simply getting one from GB off of eBay, getting it shipped, and dropping it in isn't going to cause you problems -- but there are ways to do it correctly.

 

[scubaman99]

RBBailey

interesting.... so you are saying that the TDi engines are in fact Federally certified for use on US roadways? this seems in direct conflict with CARB...

 

[Leslie]

I had a recent conversation on this w/ folks more knowledgeable than I on the subject...


A Tdi 200 or 300 didn't use cats. However, the Td5 does. A Td5 actually is CARB compliant. (More on that in a bit).

The 2.25 was originally designed as a diesel block, then shared as a petrol version, and both are available in older Series. The 2.5 is a progression of the same engine design. Then they went from NA to the 2.5 turbocharged, then reworked it again to become the 200Tdi (and later to become the 300Tdi). Because it wasn't a catalyzed diesel, you can't use it in any vehicle that had cats... but if you have a Series that didn't have cats, then it's allowable as an upgrade to the engine series (this isn't addressing swapping from petrol to diesel, just a 2.25 diesel to a 200Tdi or the like).

Back to the Td5.... w/ the cats, it is CARB compliant. The other side of the coin regarding newer vehicles is the DOT safety items... airbags, glass, lights, etc. If a vehicle's gross weight is high enough, it's exempt from meeting those particulars. So, while a '06 D90 wouldn't work, if you had a D130 w/ a Td5..... yep, you can bring one in. 'Taint cheap, even before the exchange rate, I'm not going to be bringing one in anytime soon (ie, if you're someone like me that has a Series because you can't afford an NAS Defender, don't even start thinkin' about the costs involved in a Td5 130...).

Thing is, the Td5, having an ECU like any of the NAS V8 Rovers, limits just how much better it would be in wading, unlike the 200/300 ones.

'Course.... if you live in a state where you don't have inspections, half the cars on the road should be condemned, I don't think that anyone around here in this town is gonna question what engine is under the hood. If I was in the capital, yeah, they have localized emissions, or if I was across the state line, yes, they have inspections there, but at my current location, wouldn't matter.

But don't take anything I've said as a legal okay. Just because there's someone in the US bringing in Td5 130's with Customs and EPA's blessings, doesn't mean that you are going to successfully do so.



FWIW....

 

[stevenmd]

So what you're saying is... the NCRC website is back up and running, as in up-to-date?