Edward Snowden
- Thread starter knewsom
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Where is the poll entry for 'Self important douche who is emblematic of an underachieving, over-coddled, privileged white kid who is well beyond his depth?'
Hero is so overused this day that to call him that isn't even an insult, he doesn't rate being a traitor as that takes real gumption like Benedict Arnold style.
Hero is so overused this day that to call him that isn't even an insult, he doesn't rate being a traitor as that takes real gumption like Benedict Arnold style.
One thing is for sure. There is more going on here than we know.
I would not put it past our goverment to have created this fiasco to distract the American Public while they start gearing up for the next pointless war.
Because nothing builds an economy like war......
I would not put it past our goverment to have created this fiasco to distract the American Public while they start gearing up for the next pointless war.
Because nothing builds an economy like war......
This guy is fucked. He had some legitimacy as a whistleblower when he revealed the existence of program to monitor US Citizen's phones. Once he started disclosing sensitive external intelligence programs (like bugging the EU, if it really happened), he really fucked himself. That's where he went from hero whistleblower to traitor in my book.
I think I agree with this. I think that exposing the screwed up stuff that the government is doing (and I'm sure they do more than we know about) is a good thing, if you are trying to empower and protect the citizens. But trying to cause international issues or exposing US intelligence is a step to far, and puts us, as citizen, in more danger. He probably is a douche, but possibly started with the right intentions?????
He's a traitorous nightmare.
The results of his actions dismantled in days what took decades to achieve. Anything the U.S. built to give up is gone, now. He may as well be walking around the world with a fucking flamethrower.
He's placed a lot of lives in danger.
Cheers,
Kennith
The results of his actions dismantled in days what took decades to achieve. Anything the U.S. built to give up is gone, now. He may as well be walking around the world with a fucking flamethrower.
He's placed a lot of lives in danger.
Cheers,
Kennith
There is more to the story guys. Think about this for a moment. Do we really know what other information he has released since his original video statement? Just as the media can be used to reveal the PRISM program the media can also be used as a propaganda tool. Ask yourself this, would our government prefer you hate this man? Just thinking out loud here, it could end up just as many of you say.
Add, And isn't it a bit strange this is the only partisan issue DC has had in the last 5 years or more?
Add, And isn't it a bit strange this is the only partisan issue DC has had in the last 5 years or more?
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Rob never fails to offer a very deep and different look at things.
We may never know if what he did was a good or bad thing. It looks pretty bad right now - like Chris said, along with a disclosure that seems to be good overall, he disclosed a bunch of things that [for the time being] look pretty bad. However, I am not sure you can open a can of worms just a small part of the way.
I tend to view this guy in less negative light than Assange or Manning.
Speaking of, I found this to be a fascinating story (totally off topic from the IT dude's out of his depth self actualization):
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/02/magazine/evermans-war.html?pagewanted=1&ref=general&src=me&_r=0
That was a fantastic story. I was just too lazy to start a new thread on that, and reference to Pearl Jam made me think of it as well.
Damn. That's crazy. I didn't' know about this. That's more amazing to me than the Pat Tillman story.
I find the responses to this thread particularly interesting and telling - especially from those who often proclaim the primacy of the Constitution and consistently decry the encroachment of the Federal Government into the rights of the individual, or indeed any increase in power of the Fed at all. ...but the minute it has to do with "national security", oh no, it's a whooooole different story. Then the LAW is your friend, and the individual is the bad guy. You're no different than Statist Democrats who want to repeal the 2nd Amendment. Same tune, different instrument.
The constitution makes it very clear what "Treason" is:
The term "Enemies" is an important thing to take note of. "Enemies" exist during a time of war. If we are not at war, there can be no Treason. If you doubt this assertion have a look at the case-law surrounding it.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/treason
If revealing the actions of our Government to the People of our Nation is Treason, then the inference is that the Government is at war with WE THE PEOPLE. If that's not a problem to you, then I don't know what is.
Revealing that we're spying on our friends and rivals in the world is not treason either - I'm quite certain their intelligence agencies and governments already know full well what we've been up to, since a great many people in this country already knew full well. Snowden didn't really reveal anything new - he just confirmed it. He's a whistleblower, and should have been protected by our laws protecting whistleblowers.
Regarding claims that he's a self-important douche: what he did IS important. I've seen nothing that makes it seem as though he regards himself as particularly important, but he clearly thinks that the American People have a right to know what's being done in their name and has placed his life in grave danger to tell them.
The constitution makes it very clear what "Treason" is:
The term "Enemies" is an important thing to take note of. "Enemies" exist during a time of war. If we are not at war, there can be no Treason. If you doubt this assertion have a look at the case-law surrounding it.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/treason
If revealing the actions of our Government to the People of our Nation is Treason, then the inference is that the Government is at war with WE THE PEOPLE. If that's not a problem to you, then I don't know what is.
Revealing that we're spying on our friends and rivals in the world is not treason either - I'm quite certain their intelligence agencies and governments already know full well what we've been up to, since a great many people in this country already knew full well. Snowden didn't really reveal anything new - he just confirmed it. He's a whistleblower, and should have been protected by our laws protecting whistleblowers.
Regarding claims that he's a self-important douche: what he did IS important. I've seen nothing that makes it seem as though he regards himself as particularly important, but he clearly thinks that the American People have a right to know what's being done in their name and has placed his life in grave danger to tell them.
Kris-
Your logic stream is a bit convoluted...
The treason thing is a stretch, I'll agree with you there, but the actions are treasonous in nature because of the external implications not the internal ones. Likewise its not that he informed other countries that we're doing what we do-its the specific sources/methods/etc that he's revealed, in detail. Or looked at another way, he's just blown big B billion's of dollars of your taxpayer money. If you're good with that, awesome-it puts you, your family, and your country's future in some jeopardy but celebrate him if you like.
There is a distinction between his release of domestic aspects and international; one can be argued at great length (as it has here) as to the merit of it-the other steps well across a line and illustrates the forsaking of our country.
I'd also argue his life isn't in grave danger...he has never actually known grave danger, just mild discomfort. Even if arrested the closest he'd get to grave danger is if he got put in Gen Pop.
cheers-
Ray