Engine Replacement or Rebuild?

[p m]

This debate is nearly always divided by intended use into several camps. The results resemble this:

1. Primarily off-road
   1. Slowly: TDI
   2. Fast: V8

If you are comparing TDI with 5-speed to V8 with auto, it is not better for slow off-roading.

A single giant advantage of a TDI is fuel consumption.
In one long driving day, Chris's 300TDi/5 speed manual drank up 8 gallons of diesel fuel, while my D1 V8 with auto box - 16. It is the closest tit-for-tat comparison that I know about, it was slow enough that aerodynamics of either truck mattered little, and the terrain and pace was exactly the same.
I could guess that with a five-speed the V8 could've only taken 12-13 gallons instead of 16, but that's that.

There is a marginal advantage of slightly-better waterproofing of TDi compared to the V8, but that's solvable.
Reliability-wise, I don't think there are any advantages.

 

[ERover82]

Not that a TDi is better, but that it is sufficient. Such a person then considers other factors such as efficiency, simplicity, water resistance, reliably reputation, and they usually settle on the TDi.

 

[Tugela]

Not in town.

Suit yourself. I have spent a good bit of time driving a TD5 Defender through the chaos of Durban, a metropolis of nearly 4 million people on South Africa's east coast where taxis drive on sidewalks and you have to share the road with buses, sugar cane trucks, bicycles, donkeys, chickens, dogs, and impatient assholes in German sports sedans. I found the TD5 to be more than adequate for the task and plenty enjoyable. Next time I'm there I might have a go at driving a 300TDI 101FC ambulance just to spice things up a little.

 

[mgreenspan]

All you diesel obsessed folks need to stop buying Land Rovers. At this point you should all be looking for right or left hand drive 80 series Land Cruisers with the 4.2 diesel. Then in a few years sell them off for the Land Cruiser 105s.

Everyone obsesses over 300 tdis. They aren’t that spectacular. A V8 auto DI drives so much smoother and quieter than any other setup. A TD5 auto DII is pretty nice, though. The price of gas in the US does not make it worthwhile. The only logical reason to do a swap is if you are off-road and away from civilization for miles and days. Good luck actually doing that in America. Very few people actually do that sort of thing.

I’m surprised there hasn’t been the standard argument for field repair ability.

 

[xalty]

Tdis are impressive for a small diesel but they still suck and have the same lifespan of <300k before major rebuild. If you nerds really need a two wire engine go get a carb that’ll be a bitch to start in the cold, not that a Tdi ever would

There are ZERO financially viable alternatives to the RV8. $800 gets you a good running engine delivered to your doorstep.

 

[ERover82]

The RV8 is a basket case of short lived components. Wiring, cats, cooling system, head gasket, emissions system, oil pump, sensors, ignition system, the block itself; all prone it failure. The TDi's aren't perfect, but they're far more simple. Certainly the ECU/sensor-less manuals. These are common considerations for an off-road vehicle, and along with their other attributes, means the TDi works for those who don't mind a relaxed pace. For the fast-paced, your options are more limited, and expensive. A diesel Land Cruiser, in their various forms, are great vehicles if they meet your desires, but they are a compromise too, like all 4x4s.

 

[p m]

The RV8 is a basket case of short lived components. Wiring, cats, cooling system, head gasket, emissions system, oil pump, sensors, ignition system, the block itself; all prone it failure.

Not sure if this is a correct assessment. Drove my D1 with its original engine with 287kmi to work today.

 

[Tugela]

A diesel Land Cruiser, in their various forms, are great vehicles if they meet your desires, but they are a compromise too, like all 4x4s.

I'm going to be driving a Land Cruiser 76 series wagon across part of the Kalahari in Botswana later this year. I think it's one with the 1HZ diesel engine. I used to drive a gas 74 series pickup truck, that thing could punch above its weight. I'm curious to see how they compare.

 

[ERover82]

Not sure if this is a correct assessment. Drove my D1 with its original engine with 287kmi to work today.

Despite your single data point, over the last 40 years the RV8's reputation has been well established. It's light weight, sounds good, has relatively good low-end torque, but there's more to the reputation that we here are all familiar with. Even most car buyers are well aware of the brand's reputation, even if they aren't aware the RV8 was a large contributor to it.

 

[Chuckwagon976]

I'll add a second data point, 270K on original engine in my 97 XD. Per OP's first post, I vote RV8.

 

[p m]

Despite your single data point,

okay, add a 95 LWB with 260 kmi and a 95 SWB with 210 kmi.

 

[Tugela]

I'll add that my 1993 RRC SWB has a paltry 186,000 miles, although its current engine is not the original and the transplant has a lot fewer miles than the body. The engine itself has performed admirably during my ownership, although I've had to do a lot of work on other components thanks to neglect of previous owners. Maybe the ownership experience is shaped by your expectations. I went into it knowing the weaknesses and anticipating component replacement and I haven't been disappointed. I find Rover ownership tends to be more enjoyable with a proactive mindset around maintenance.

 

[kennith]

okay, add a 95 LWB with 260 kmi and a 95 SWB with 210 kmi.

'71 Range Rover with around 410,000 miles in the middle of nowhere for long duration trips. I've owned a couple over 200,000, and driven quite a few more.

I know that one specifically is much older, but the design intent of the engine was the same. Never had an issue with those carburetors, either. They just worked without even thinking about them. Being kicked off at angles like that is nice off-pavement. It's hard to starve the things.

That's not including all the rally vehicles I've observed and a few I've driven. Trash can lid twin turbo setups, high mileage... People beat the hell out of them. Tugela's probably seen the Rhino Charge, and they're big on the V8 RRC in that event, as well.

They seem to behave much better at lower temperatures than they showed up running here. I was in the "run it at stock temps" clan for quite some time, but my mind has been thoroughly changed.

My engine work will be coming up soon, hopefully. Maybe I'll get in the double digits so far as mileage goes. Nobody knows exactly what those cams do and nobody seems to care, so I'm just hoping. That was always the biggest issue with this DII; the range is not sufficient, and I haven't helped it with those gears.

Hopefully this coming year I'll have it fully restored from the firewall forward, and finish the rest over time. It's a more expensive than I thought it would be, but I think it's worth it. I like the car better than anything on the market in the class, and that's clearly not going to change.

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[Knightspirit]

I guess I really got a good deal on my 99 CA D1 SD for $1200 which I drove home and now after less than $500 is running and driving perfectly! Looking forward to fixing it up for a little off roading.

 

[SGaynor]

The RV8 is a basket case of short lived components. Wiring, cats, cooling system, head gasket, emissions system, oil pump, sensors, ignition system, the block itself; all prone it failure. The TDi's aren't perfect, but they're far more simple. Certainly the ECU/sensor-less manuals. These are common considerations for an off-road vehicle, and along with their other attributes, means the TDi works for those who don't mind a relaxed pace. For the fast-paced, your options are more limited, and expensive. A diesel Land Cruiser, in their various forms, are great vehicles if they meet your desires, but they are a compromise too, like all 4x4s.

We're all driving 15+ year old vehicles. I don't think "short lived" is the appropriate word.

Me: a 2003 with 130K (it spent ~6 years doing < 8k mi/year due to my 5 mile commute.) The only reason it's heading to the boneyard is because of body/frame rust (it's first 9 years were in MI). I'm toying with pulling the motor a rebuilding it...just because.

 

[discostew]

XD is just a trim option, essentially. There's nothing differentiating XD trucks mechanically from any other D1, so I personally don't see how LS-conversion of an XD would make it less true to form than LS-conversion of any other D1.

But that's me - I don't see any particular value in XD, or GDE, or Trek, or G4, versions.

Well I just feel like the original equipment on a limited production vehicle would be ideal. Not to mention all the drivetrain parts you would snap in half with all that torque. The limited # trucks are always going to bring more money. The prices these trucks are bringing at auction is on it's way up, but still hard to build a really nice truck and then turn around and make money selling it. I would say if you do all the labor yourself your going to have a hundred hours in the thing. Buy really clean truck for about 3600. And hopefully get it set up with new tires, whatever swivel housing parts and seals and what have you. You know your going to replace the rear main seal, seal the transfer case. All the P/steering hoses, oil cooler pipes will be leaking probably, trans cooler pipes(all 3) will run you almost 450 if you need them. Rebuild the calipers( they all need that). Then for sure you will be doing the headliner and whatever else.
If you did all that, your going to have 9 grand in parts. Your going to have a super nice truck that you would be hard pressed to get 10 grand for. So that being said, a limited #'s truck would put you in a better position. And if I did all that work to this XD, and then put an LS conversion in it. It would be worth a couple grand maybe. Probably closer to 1500

 

[p m]

Stew,

you may be right and I may be wrong. Our difference is likely that between a shop owner and a customer.

I have never, once, in my life approached vehicle modifications or repairs from the point of "how much will I make on it when I sell it."
I will probably regret putting Land Rover axles under a clean 68 Wagoneer - but I wanted the truck to be city-driveable, not a garage queen, and it could not have been done with non-self-adjustable drum brakes.
Likewise - had I lived in shitty climate, with most local RV8s being lifeless lumps covered by an inch of tar covering past head gasket leaks and block cracks, I would not advocate keeping the factory motor. Being geographically close to Nick Markiw's shop, I know just how well an LS conversion can be executed, AND be even California smog legal. It will cost about 10k, and as you correctly mentioned, it will not pay for itself in resale value.
But this truck will bring a huge grin on the owner's face. The biggest difficulty will be keeping the teeth in the rings and pinions - everything else is upgradeable.

XD - meh. A self-proclaimed Rover nut may long after a yellow-sprayed SD (because that's what an XD is) on BAT, and spring for some money.
However, I have seen clean, unmolested, mid-mileage white SDs go for what you think you could get out a fully-restored XD.

 

[discostew]

I'm just a purest. I'm not a shop owner, I'm a shop foreman. Big difference.

 

[ERover82]

We're all driving 15+ year old vehicles. I don't think "short lived" is the appropriate word.

Yeah, those parts were so long lived that LRNA dropped the Discovery name in 2005. Funny, the ROW market didn't do the same.

 

[kennith]

you may be right and I may be wrong. Our difference is likely that between a shop owner and a customer.

That's a big difference.

One sees all the problem vehicles come in, day after day. Sooner or later it's easy to be convinced that they all suck. It's automatic confirmation bias, and there's nothing the mechanic can do about it. It's just going to happen, and once it does, there's no convincing them otherwise, because "they used turn wrenches at a Ford/GM/Maserati/Land Rover/whatever dealer".

The other happily drives that sucky vehicle for decades without a care in the world.

Cheers,

Kennith