Enough Already

nathansharkey

Well-known member
May 11, 2006
376
0
Red Deer, Alberta Canada
For your contemplation,

I for one am a supporter of more drilling. A little biased I guess, I am a drilling consultant LOL

Surging Oil Primes Political Pump For New U.S. Drilling

BY TERRY JONES

INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY

Posted 6/18/2008

If there's to be a tipping point in the debate over America's energy future, President Bush's speech on Wednesday might just be it.

His remarks amounted to a line in the sand against those who refuse to acknowledge the fundamental reality of America's energy crisis: We need to drill for more oil ? and now, not later.

"Congress must face a hard reality," Bush said in remarks at the White House. "Unless members are willing to accept gas prices at today's painful levels or even higher, our nation must produce more oil, and we must start now."

Bush on Wednesday proposed a new plan that would essentially decontrol oil exploration and drilling on the U.S. Outer Continental Shelf, the 3- to-200-mile band of undersea bed thought to hold a minimum of 18 billion barrels of oil ? roughly equal to 10 years of current U.S. oil output.

Offshore, Off-Limits

A Democrat-led Congress imposed a moratorium on OCS development in 1981. It was extended by both the first President Bush and by President Clinton.

But since 1981, the U.S. has gone from importing 40% of its oil to about 65% today. From a national policy standpoint, the moratorium has been an abject failure.

Bush's new plan would also open up the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

As the president noted, the drilling will take place on less than 2,000 of ANWR's 19 million acres ? roughly 0.1% of the reserve. It would have minimal impact on either the environment or on the animals that live there. But the upside is 10 billion barrels of oil, possibly more.

A million barrels or so of this oil would be flowing today if Clinton hadn't vetoed it in 1995. Now we're paying with higher prices and greater energy insecurity.

Perhaps the biggest element of Bush's plan would exploit our enormous oil shale and tar sand reserves.

Bush uses a conservative estimate of 800 billion barrels of oil in our shale deposits; others, including the Rand Corp., estimate that as much as 1.8 trillion barrels lie under the so-called Green River Formation in Colorado, Utah and Wyoming.

That's more than the total reserves of 970 billion barrels held by the top 10 non-U.S. oil suppliers combined and equals 100 years worth of imports.

Finally, Bush wants to build more oil refineries ? something we haven't done since 1979.

The president's bold plan caps several days of significant events that appear to mark a major turnaround for U.S. energy policy. They include:

? A change of heart by GOP presidential candidate John McCain, who ? after opposing offshore drilling ? vowed on Tuesday to go after reserves off the coast. He also says he wants to build at least 45 new nuclear power plants.

? A similar reversal by Florida Gov. Charlie Crist, a longtime foe of drilling off his state's coast, who also changed his mind this week because "Florida families are suffering."

? A new Rasmussen poll released Tuesday (see chart) showing 67% of Americans now favor drilling for more oil, with 64% believing it will lead to lower prices.

These shifts of opinion are all quite reasonable, given that oil prices have more than doubled to $130-plus per barrel over the last year, while a gallon of gas sells for more than $4 a gallon ? cutting deeply into U.S. consumers' pocketbooks.

All this is trouble for Democrats. They have positioned themselves going into November's election as a party of high energy prices, rising taxes and slow economic growth ? that is, the party of former President Jimmy Carter. He tried all those policies, and they were a disaster.

Almost immediately after Bush's remarks, top congressional Democrats stood before the cameras saying things that, if current polls are correct, will likely be damaging to their electoral prospects in November.

For instance, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi claimed that Bush's plan "was literally written by the oil industry . . . (and would) give away more public resources."

Oilmen didn't write Bush's plan. It was dictated by the unavoidable logic of growing demand, soaring prices and slowing oil output ? not to mention a growing U.S. reliance on potentially shaky foreign suppliers.

As for the contention that this would "give away" resources, any oil company that explored or drilled on U.S. territory would pay royalties in addition to taxes.

This is important. Since 2002, the 27 largest oil companies have seen their tax bills soar from $15 billion to $90 billion. In 2007, the effective tax rate for oil companies was more than 40% ? above the top corporate income-tax rate of 35%.

'Obscene' Profits?

It's true, oil company profits have jumped. But as a share of revenue, they still hover around 9 cents per dollar ? in line with what manufacturers make and below the 18.4 cents per dollar made by drug companies and 13.4 cents by computer makers.

"Despite what President Bush, John McCain and their friends in the oil industry claim, we cannot drill our way out of the problem," said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. "The math is simple: America has just 3% of the world's oil reserves, but Americans use a quarter of its oil."

But Reid's math is way off ? as we've already showed. The U.S., potentially anyway, has more oil reserves than any nation. As for using a quarter of the world's oil, that is now declining, due to higher prices. It isn't falling in China or India.

No Alternative

Foes of drilling have pushed their own notion that alternative energy ? solar, wind, biomass ? will be a silver-bullet fix and will replace crude oil in fueling our economy.

This is a pipe dream. Every major forecast of future oil use through the middle of this century ? including those of the Energy Department and the International Energy Agency ? expect crude oil to make up at least 75% of energy supplies.

Today, the U.S. uses 21 million barrels of oil a day, but we supply just 8.5 million barrels ourselves. That's not enough.

The world uses 85 million barrels. This is growing by a million barrels a day each year thanks to soaring demand in China, India and the Mideast, which account for about 40% of the world's population.

The U.S. is competing head-to-head with those countries for resources, leading inevitably to both price and political pressures.

Given our thirst for oil, it's criminal to leave our ample resources untapped.

By 2050, the world will add 2 billion people, and the U.S. at least 100 million more, census estimates show. More people means more energy. But how much?

The Energy Information Administration estimates that energy demand will rise more than 40% by 2030. This is a tall order.

The IEA forecasts that the world's oil companies will have to invest at least $8.2 trillion between now and then to keep the world economy growing.

Yet, with Democrats calling for windfall profits taxes, pushing nationalization of oil companies (as two Democrats already have), and forcing oil company CEOs to appear before Congress seemingly every month, it's a wonder we have any oil at all.

When you demonize profits, you also demonize investments in the very companies that produce the profits. That means less oil, not more, in the future.

Put into perspective, from 1990 to 2006, U.S. oil companies invested $1.2 trillion ? compared with profits of $900 billion. Those who accuse them of "gouging" or "profiteering" are perpetrating a lie.

If nothing else, rebuilding our oil reserves will lead to a favorable decline in the huge number of dollars we send overseas for oil.

At current prices, the U.S. will spend $600 billion over the next year on foreign oil ? an amount only slightly less than our $700 billion trade deficit.

All told, the world is handing over a startling $1.8 trillion to oil producers ? a massive amount that's become a huge burden.

Thanks to our need for oil, the U.S. by default has become the No. 1 supporter of many of the world's most questionable petrotyrannies ? some of which are avid supporters of terrorism.

We do ourselves no favors by refusing to drill on our own soil.

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Blue

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2004
10,080
885
AZ
Opening up our own US land for drilling is a complete no-brainer. The fact that it's even being debated makes me, once again, surprised at the abundance of general stupidity in our country.
 

thedude

Well-known member
Sep 10, 2007
465
0
Blue said:
Opening up our own US land for drilling is a complete no-brainer. The fact that it's even being debated makes me, once again, surprised at the abundance of general stupidity in our country.


x2 :applause:
 

az_max

1
Apr 22, 2005
7,463
2
I'm all for drilling at home, new refineries and nuclear plants to replace coal fired plants. But we can't sit on our laurels and keep using gas/diesel like we're used to. Get new methods out there, refine our solar and wind efforts and make oil an export to pay down our debt to China.
 

antichrist

Well-known member
Sep 7, 2004
8,208
0
68
Atlanta, GA
az_max said:
But we can't sit on our laurels and keep using gas/diesel like we're used to.
But that's the problem. We will. More drilling = lower prices = less investment on replacements for crude oil. So for 10-20 years we're back to using it up at lower prices, then we're back where we are today.
The same people who are oppsoed to more drilling are the same people who have been saying for decades that we need to be investing in alternative fuels, and were mocked by the same people who are pushing for more drilling. Nothing will change. It will just be pushed out for our children to deal with.
 

Blue

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2004
10,080
885
AZ
az_max said:
I'm all for drilling at home, new refineries and nuclear plants to replace coal fired plants. But we can't sit on our laurels and keep using gas/diesel like we're used to. Get new methods out there, refine our solar and wind efforts and make oil an export to pay down our debt to China.

You are 100% correct.

The problem is that "aternative energy" isn't ready for the mainstream market yet. If it was, it would aready be available. In the meantime, we need to increase our domestic supply of proven energy sources. We should have done this decades ago but we sat on our hands.
 
Oct 27, 2004
3,000
4
Replace the word "Oil"with "Food" and see hwo stupid it looks.

If people were staving, and the food was underground... Would we still be as concerned. Doubt it.

Tree hugging is the new cult. They are out of hand and need to be stopped.


Case in point.... My Element is a low emission vehicle. Most cars on showrooms are today.

If I drove my car in Los Angeles, the exahust coming out of the tailpipe is CLEANER then WHATS GOING IN! Christ, Hippies, what more do you want!

Its a cult, and it needs to be stopped!
 

Blue

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2004
10,080
885
AZ
antichrist said:
But that's the problem. We will. More drilling = lower prices = less investment on replacements for crude oil. So for 10-20 years we're back to using it up at lower prices, then we're back where we are today.
The same people who are oppsoed to more drilling are the same people who have been saying for decades that we need to be investing in alternative fuels, and were mocked by the same people who are pushing for more drilling. Nothing will change. It will just be pushed out for our children to deal with.

I think we are well past this point. Everyone knows that when the perfect technology to replace the gas or diesel-fired internal combustion engine comes to market, that technology will be worth countless trillions of dollars. Same with the perfect replacement for coal-fired power plants (we already have nuclear but that is still a bad word for the ignorant masses)

This is an interesting announcement, although I disagree with the government sticking their huge nose in it - the private market doesn't need the government's money on this, or any similar issue:

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D91FU4PG0&show_article=1

Sen. McCain offers $300 million prize for new auto battery
 

az_max

1
Apr 22, 2005
7,463
2
Chris-St Louis said:
Case in point.... My Element is a low emission vehicle. Most cars on showrooms are today.

If I drove my car in Los Angeles, the exahust coming out of the tailpipe is CLEANER then WHATS GOING IN! Christ, Hippies, what more do you want!

Its a cult, and it needs to be stopped!

That reminded me of the old SAAB two stroke vs the SAAB 9000... here's a video

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7091492525320672012
 

antichrist

Well-known member
Sep 7, 2004
8,208
0
68
Atlanta, GA
Blue said:
You are 100% correct.

The problem is that "aternative energy" isn't ready for the mainstream market yet. If it was, it would aready be available.
That was exactly my point. If it had been a free market, or at least a level playing field, then odds are it would be a lot further along. But instead, government subsidies were given to oil/coal/nuclear and very little provided to renewables. So they are way behind the curve.
And if we do things to lower fuel prices again, they will remain behind.
 

Blue

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2004
10,080
885
AZ
antichrist said:
That was exactly my point. If it had been a free market, or at least a level playing field, then odds are it would be a lot further along. But instead, government subsidies were given to oil/coal/nuclear and very little provided to renewables. So they are way behind the curve.And if we do things to lower fuel prices again, they will remain behind.

Yes, I do believe there is truth to your first part, but I think the free market is well past the second part.
 

R_Lefebvre

Well-known member
Dec 10, 2007
942
0
If I drove my car in Los Angeles, the exahust coming out of the tailpipe is CLEANER then WHATS GOING IN! Christ, Hippies, what more do you want!

Well, maybe for NOx, HC and CO emissions. But, the only thing coming out your pipe is N2, CO2, and H2O. You can't breath any of those. You can breath LA air. Don't believe me, park in your garage with the engine running sometime.

Sorry, this statement is a pet peeve of mine. "Emissions" is NOT just related to NOx and CO. CO2 is the question at hand, and even the "cleanest" engine emits lots of it.

Otherwise, I'm with Antichrist on this. We'd be a lot further ahead if we put enough R&D into renewables.
 

mgreenspan

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2005
4,723
130
Briggs's Back Yard
antichrist said:
That was exactly my point. If it had been a free market, or at least a level playing field, then odds are it would be a lot further along. But instead, government subsidies were given to oil/coal/nuclear and very little provided to renewables. So they are way behind the curve.
And if we do things to lower fuel prices again, they will remain behind.

Are the rest of the world's fuel prices going to magically go down when ours magically go down after increased homeland production? Hmmmm... lemme think... No... I'm pretty sure the US is not the only nation in the world concerned with finding an alternative fuel for vehicles and power. Bottom line, drilling and increasing local production of oil is not going to completely kill the energy that is building behind the need to find alternative fuels/renewables.


Who cares what happened in the past, it's done. Use it for lessons learned, but quit dwelling on it. We need oil. We need alternative fuels/flex fuel vehicles/alternative sources for power... We need a lot of things. Why should we not get all of them rather than put all the eggs into one basket. IMO the majority of the US has realized that it's way too dependent on fuel and has begun to realize that it can't hang with expensive fuel and gas guzzlers. I'd say that we're ready for that change(not referring Obama's change, whatever it is, I still haven't figured out, it's kinda like the underpants gnomes from south park, missing phase 2 or whatever) and from what I can tell car companies are making an effort, look at Honda and Toyota and watch something on TV about new alternative energy vehicles.
 

mgreenspan

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2005
4,723
130
Briggs's Back Yard
R_Lefebvre said:
Well, maybe for NOx, HC and CO emissions. But, the only thing coming out your pipe is N2, CO2, and H2O. You can't breath any of those. You can breath LA air. Don't believe me, park in your garage with the engine running sometime.

Sorry, this statement is a pet peeve of mine. "Emissions" is NOT just related to NOx and CO. CO2 is the question at hand, and even the "cleanest" engine emits lots of it.

Otherwise, I'm with Antichrist on this. We'd be a lot further ahead if we put enough R&D into renewables.

Seriously... I wish I made a car that emmitted homemade corn dogs, hamburgers made ground bison meat, Yuengling, fun-dip with an extra stick, bacon wrapped shrimp, crab imperial, lobster, now I'm just listing everything that I really want now and can't get... and I want this car to run on matzah ball soup. It's a car. It will never be perfect. WTFO? Yes it's bad, nobody says it is 100% safe what comes out, but it's getting better all the time. Here's a pet peeve of mine, people complaining about this that aren't driving hybrid vehicles exclusively or electric ones.


Look. I don't know you, so I'm apologizing in advance so you can't get mad at me about what I just said:cool: . I agree on the need for more in R&D into renewables, I've wondered about that since learning about solar power and how inefficient it is back in 3rd grade. Sitting in a car garage is not a good comparison to CO2 going into the atmosphere. You'll die in your garage. But if that were comparable, then there'd have to be a car the size of all the oceans in the world with an exhaust pipe the size of, I dunno, the land down under. Garages are not mini version of the Earth.
 
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BaldEagle

Well-known member
Sep 13, 2004
2,824
0
Atlanta, GA
aside from the rant and pissing contest that brewing between two people in this thread, i have to agree with everyone.

we need to drill now. but it will be pointless if we don't continue our search for renewable energy. we just need to drill to get us to that point without a major crisis. i think it will happen. coal should be banned (not really), at least when i compare it to nuclear. how many americans have been killed by nuclear? how many americans have been killed mining coal? (we will still need coal to produce steel, i know....well, i mean to export it to china). i'm in the construction industry and i hear buzzwords (green, sustainable) all day long, and as much as i hate buzzwords and this somewhat-of-a-fad, we're already moving into that kind of projcet environment, and its only going to become a staple part of the business. it's kinda cool watching the status quo shift, although the oil situation scares me.
 

jimjet

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2005
3,257
2
L.I.N.Y./Daytona Beach Fl
I have 300 acres in Deposit N.Y.
Its recently been found that im sitting on one of the largest gas deposits in the world.

The gas company has been buying drilling rights from all the local farmers ,i heard 5000.00 to 1,000,000 has been paid to individual farms for test drilling.
This is good for the neigborhood as most local homes are falling down ,the people need the cash.
Every time i go up to deer camp i find letters inside the door.

I aint sellin out yet.
Im a holdin out for some big cash money.....

I may be a Gas Mogul in the near future and i aint talking farts.

http://rssbinghamton.com/will-natural-gas-be-broome-countys-economic-savior/