Equivalent cooling fan for D1

[skrufy]

Hi Guys-

Didn't find an answer via the search engine, and/or I didn't ask the question correctly....

1995 D1 3.9liter V8

Got real lucky today- threw the serpentine belt today about a mile from the house. Didn't even know it until
I saw some vapors rising- coolant starting to boil/spill out of the reservoir. After things cooled down for an hour or so, I discovered that the idler bearing froze up. Easy fix, had a spare and had it replaced in 10 minutes, belt back on... add coolant- good to go-

EXCEPT I broke a fan blade- snapped like a potato chip. I live in the middle of nowhere- have searched the www for an equivalent fan blade that i can pick up at my local parts store tomorrow...

Anybody know of a Ford, Chevy, Toyota, etc fan that will fit??? Stock part is ERR3439. IF I order from RN or ebay, it's a week to get it...

Any ideas much appreciated!

Tim

 

[Timmy!!!!!!!]

Where is your location?

 

[1920SF]

The stock fan is probably what you'll want to get-if the current cracked blade isn't unbalancing too much I'd just run that and get the right part; aftermarket setups never seem to move as much air.

 

[skrufy]

Timmy-

I live in the eastern mountains of Arizona... of course, it's an 11 blade fan, so you just can't cut off the opposite blade, smooth the edges like a jet engine, and be on your way. Other than wanting to sell more fans, there must be a reason for odd-number of blades....

Tim

 

[skrufy]

1920SF-

thanks for the post- I may just have to settle for the stock fan- it's the waiting to get it I don't want to do as it's my only set of wheels at the moment...... As soon as I cranked it up after replacing the idler pulley, putting the belt back on, adding coolant- (lost about 2 liters of glycol )- there is a heavy vibration at idle that accentuates with increased throttle, as the blade broke off at the hub. I could drive it for very short distances at 10-12 mph, horses/ livestock to feed, etc, but the engine isn't going to be happy about it.....

Tim
Alpine, Az.

 

[number9]

I could drive it for very short distances at 10-12 mph......but the engine isn't going to be happy about it.....

Water pump will fail quickly.

of course, it's an 11 blade fan, so you just can't cut off the opposite blade, smooth the edges like a jet engine, and be on your way.

You'd have to partially cut both blades opposite to the broken or somehow add weights to blades adjacent to broken one to get close to balanced.

Not preferred option but not much to loose and may get you by for a couple of days if you can't find another temporary replacement.
......

 

[skrufy]

Number9-

You are correct about the water pump- very unbalanced load, and I just replaced the water pump 9-10 months ago. I have a spare engine to harvest parts off of, but that fan only had 4 remaining blades on it....

I probably will fool with cutting off the tips of opposing two blades to see if that will suffice for a few days.

When Garrett AirResearch was doing the engine certification of their TFE engine for the FAA on the new Learjet35, they had to put so many hours on the engines as part of the cert.testing. They planned a lengthy trip around the Pacific Rim, starting in California. they took a seagull into one of the engines landing in Hawaii. The Garrett engine guys cut off 3 of the fan blades that were damaged, then cut off the 3 opposing blades, smoothed and blended the blades IAW FAA certified engine repair procedures. the jet then took off and continued on it's scheduled route around the Pacific..... true story.

tim
Alpine, Az.

 

[number9]

Remembered another option depending upon ambient temp, driving needed to be done and accuracy of your temp gauge. Simply remove fan/clutch and carefully monitor temps.

Early in the year prepping for a pump and thermostat change did a couple of cooling system flushes. Since access to hoses better with radiator cowl and fan removed decided to leave my new fan/clutch off just to experiment. OAT was about 50 F, didn't overheat at idle. Drove about 20 miles round trip to store and back. At 45-60MPH temps were same or a bit lower than with fan installed, never gave it a chance to overheat with any extended idle time. Monitor my D2 temps using a ScanGaugeII...true story. Good luck with yous.

Enjoyed your Lear 35 story. Had the opportunity to work avionics on one in the last few years as well as their ill fated 85 at the factory while trying to get FTV1 ready for it's first flight. Contract only lasted 6 weeks until first taxi but interesting/fun while it lasted.
......

 

[1920SF]

As #9 notes, if you keep it about about 35mph most of the time the fan won't even be noticed; I've done the same thing using a Scan Gauge to watch the relative temp fluctuations.

 

[Timmy!!!!!!!]

Maybe one of the west coast guys has a spare one nearby.

 

[MM3846]

Remembered another option depending upon ambient temp, driving needed to be done and accuracy of your temp gauge. Simply remove fan/clutch and carefully monitor temps.

This. If you want to be on the safe side, pop the hood and disconnect the plug on top of the AC compressor. Then throw the AC on when you drive (make sure the blower fan is on, too). This will engage the electric fans but the AC won't run bc you disconnected it. Did that a few times on the trail before I rigged up an electric fan override.

 

[skrufy]

MM3846-

Great ideas- how did you do the electric fan override- a simple on/off switch into the circuit direct from the battery maybe?

Anybody know the real reason for the odd number of blades? quieter maybe? with the blade spacing for 11 blades, they obviously had to do a lot of extra math to get the balance correct....

Number9- I flew for Lear Flight Test for 5 years in the early 80's in Tucson- have seen some engineers come up with some goofy stuff. We finally added an engineer to our office, who was also Lear Type rated- his main job was to translate Engineer-Speak into Pilot-Speak, and vice versa....

 

[p m]

Not just balance correct - this is a relatively low-noise fan, the spacing is unequal.
There's no shortage of these fans - both new and old, no reason to hack something different.

As for using the A/C fans as a stop-gap measure: you will cook your engine. You have likely cooked it already, but in AZ it is a given.
That said, the simplest measure was what MM3846 described - disconnect A/C compressor clutch, and use A/C button as fan control.

 

[skrufy]

PM- the low noise fan makes sense- after checking with my local autoparts guy to see if he could locate an ERR3439 or equivalent (he could not...), he said most auto fans had odd number blades....

Here are some interchange part numbers for the D1 cooling fan ERR3439:
-IMC/URO: 118 290237 38
-Diften: 325-A1582-X01
-Hollander: 325-50568
-MTC: 7845 this same ERR3439 is used on some Jaguars..... MTC7845 I think is a Jag part number

As far as cooking the engine here in Arizona, I would normally agree with you, but I live in the eastern mountains at 8100ft- it snowed for a little while yesterday morning, and the temp was up to about 50F. As I said earlier, I lost about 2 liters of coolant, and the temp gage never made it past the lower third of the "normal" range, so I think I will be okay, as this happened within a mile or so of the house.

Have ordered a new fan off of ebay- a new URO replacement fan, for $23.79 no tax, free shipping, out of California..... should be in next week.....

Here's another question: I have a D110 300Tdi/R380 that is down for the moment awaiting some tranny work. The fan appears to be about the same size, 11 blades, but don't know if the water pump spindles are the same size yet or not. If they are the same size, anyone see a problem mounting that one on the D1 while I wait for the new one for the D1 to come in next week?

Thanks to all!

Tim

 

[p m]

Check the direction of the fan rotation - the fan would be wrong if 300TDi has V-belts (your D1 has a serpentine belt).

I did drive a Classic once for about a week with A/C electric fans only providing cooling - it was consistently on a hot side, but did not overheat. But I hate driving with my eyes glued to the temp gauge.

Envy your weather!

 

[robertf]

both are serpentine, but 300tdi belt is on the opposite side of the pulley and the pump spins the other way and had left hand threads on the water pump compared to the right hand threads on the v8

 

[skrufy]

robertf

Just came back in the house to report, and confirm you are correct.... both the V8 and the 300Tdi have serpentine belts, and the 300Tdi spins clockwise as you look at the engine, the V8 counter-clockwise ( do I have that correct?- I think so....) anyway it won't work... First clue was when I took my D110's 32mm fan wrench, and tried to fit it to the V8s, which takes a 36mm fan wrench.... not bad tools to carry in either case..... Also for the D1, carry a 1/2in. pull handle with a 15mm 12 point socket in order to be able to release the tension on the idler pulley. If you can't remember how your serpentine belt fits on, take a few minutes right now to draw a small picture in your owner's manual.... I advise a 12 point socket vs a stronger 6 point as the 12pt. will allow more positioning angles for your pull handle- AND remove the fan so that you don't do what I did- break off a blade..... On the viscus fan clutch nut- it always tightens in the same direction as the fan spins- removal goes opposite. After installing, all it takes is a very slight nudge on the wrench to tighten- the turning of the fan will keep it tight. A good idea is to also carry a long handled screw driver or thin pry bar to wedge in next to the fan mounting bolts (to the fan clutch...) so you can loosen the nut. Hopefully yours won't have been tightened by some bozo gorilla in a shop somewhere.... it should only take a slight pull to get the fan nut loose..... I recently had to replace the water pump on my wife's Ford excursion with the 7.3L turbo diesel- we had to take the old pump w/fan attached to a shop and use an air IMPACT hammer to get the nut loose- pure idiocy....

So, go get a pull handle, socket, fan wrench, and a spare belt..... don't go on your next trip w/o them. Also take the time to look at your engine, see what's involved- prepare. it's pretty simple, probably on you tube as well.....

When I broke the blade off the fan, it snapped off nearly down to the hub. Having nothing to loose while waiting for a new fan, I cut off the ends of the two opposing blades in lengths to approximate the weight of the broken blade. Installed. It works- a slight vibration now that could be perfected on a balancer at a machine shop- but your shop fees would exceed the cost of a new one..... But, out in the boonies, it would get you by until you got out of the forest or boonies... the D1 is good enough now to drive around here on my usual short trips- maybe 2-3 miles on any given day.... add a small hack saw to your traveling tool bag....

I also disconnected the clutch wire to the a/c compressor in order to run the electric fans - that technique works well too.

Will report back after the new fan is installed.... It's great thing that we all share comments and ideas here on this forum- small things that
can get you home in a pinch....

thanks everyone- just when we think maybe we are really into spring here, more snow forecast in a few days- but it won't stick....

Tim

 

[MM3846]

MM3846-

Great ideas- how did you do the electric fan override- a simple on/off switch into the circuit direct from the battery maybe?

It's a switched ground relay under the passenger side dash. I just wired in a ground wire to a switch. I think theres a few threads on it around here somewhere.

 

[lunchbox]

Take the fan to a GM dealer. They will have one that fits. I've done three trucks this way over the years. I don't remember what the fan fits, but the local Chevy dealer always has one.

 

[Maximumwarp]

Take the fan to a GM dealer. They will have one that fits. I've done three trucks this way over the years. I don't remember what the fan fits, but the local Chevy dealer always has one.

On the D2's, it's the S10 fan. Not sure if D1's are any different.