Even the NHTSA is questioning ABS

[Jaime]

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/vrtc/ca/lvabs.htm#background


Selected quotes..

"A number of statistical analyses of accident databases have been performed during the last three years. These analyses suggest that the introduction of ABS does not seem to have reduced the number of automobile accidents where they were expected to be effective. "

"In general, ABS appears to be a very promising safety device when evaluated on a test track. Under many pavement conditions, ABS allows the driver to stop a vehicle more rapidly while maintaining steering control, even during extreme panic braking. Therefore, NHTSA wishes to, as rapidly as possible, determine why the real world performance for existing, production ABS is not producing the anticipated effectiveness that has been suggested under test track conditions."

Imagine that..real world results don't match up with non-real world test conditions.


I will never regret pulling that damn ABS fuse!!!

 

[Chris-St Louis]

Opps

 

[justinhaaga]

what's abs?

 

[garrett]

though i don't like the ABS on the DIs, i think that 99% of the people out there don't know how to use to properly. i.e. steering while under heavy braking with ABS functioning.
the habit is to steer straight even if the object is dead ahead. thus making ABS in many cases useless.

 

[Jaime]

though i don't like the ABS on the DIs, i think that 99% of the people out there don't know how to use to properly. i.e. steering while under heavy braking with ABS functioning.
the habit is to steer straight even if the object is dead ahead. thus making ABS in many cases useless.

Only thing is, so much of our driving (city/ urban sprawl/ suburbia megalopolis) means you are in traffic in a lane with vehicles on either side, and there is no room to maneuver, and the ABS kicks in and lengthens your stopping distance. ABS would help if there was room to maneuver, (not that the disco is such a great maneuvering vehivcle)

I'm not liking the ABS on the Dodge either....comes on just like the D1...hit a road irregularity while you are braking, and the chatter starts.

 

[sisukid1975]

though i don't like the ABS on the DIs, i think that 99% of the people out there don't know how to use to properly. i.e. steering while under heavy braking with ABS functioning.
the habit is to steer straight even if the object is dead ahead. thus making ABS in many cases useless.

I'll agree with that. Also a study by Volvo which suggests that many times, in a panic stop when people hear or feel the "feedback" from the ABS pump (either that vibrating/chattering sound, or pulsations in the pedal) they get scared and back off.

Also, many people think that ABS makes the car stop sooner. It doesn't as we all know, in fact, it can lengthen the stop distance on certain surfaces, like ice or packed snow, unless your vehicle has those algorithms programmed into it's abs systems. (I remember when I was in Finland, there is a test track way up north in Lapland that Toyota and a few other manufacturers use to test the winter algorithms on their abs and traction control systems)

Also, crash data that Volvo analysed shows that people don't use it properly because they don't push the pedal all the way to the floor, even if they think they do. Many people don't know it, but they, in the blink of an eye are actually backing off the pedal when they should be pressing down further on it. Again, many think that has to do with the feedback from the pedal or the crazy sounds it makes when the system is working.

One thing I always do on a test drive that scares the living hell out of the salesmen is the "panic stop" and emercency lane change tests. I do that to get a feel for the vehicle and how it will act in those types of situations.

In once had this salesman literally white as a sheet in the seat next to me begging me to stop. I swear he looked like he was about to piss his pants... :smilelol:

"Yes, this car is equipped with our stability and skid control system, which will help you maintain control in case you need to make a sudden move, like swerving to avoid a collision."

"Really? Let's see how well it works!" [sound of tires squealing, ABS pumps kicking in, and salesman clawing at the dashboard and shreiking like a cheerleader]

"Yeah, seems to work pretty good....."

 

[benlittle]

what's abs?

It's the big light in your dash :rofl:

 

[rover4x4]

ABS you know those things you had on your stomach before you got a job in the real world

 

[The Limey]

Aint that the truth...

 

[ChicagoDon]

ABS = Alternative Braking System

Defined: When you get into an accident in your LR and you cant stop fast enough, your ABS system, which is composed of all of the heavy shit you have bolted on all over your truck, your oversized tires, and that huge steel bumper, kicks in and lets your rover safely come to a complete stop after utilizing the crumple zones in the car you have now just totalled while you only scratched your bumper :smilelol:

 

[antichrist]

Observing traffic over the years, and I could be wrong on this, just my impression, is that people tailgate a lot more and a lot closer. There are certain laws of physics that no system is ever going to over come, but idiots think they are immune and end up crashing into the person in front of them.

 

[azarmadillo]

No way to track the number of accidents that they prevented though. No one reports when they avoided one.

 

[antichrist]

They expected a certain reduction rate in accidents per miles driven. They aren't seeing that. So either people are having more near accidents than before, or they aren't as effective in the real world as they thought.

 

[BaldEagle]

i have to agree with those who have said that abs doesnt exactly help in the real world because usually steering isnt an option to avoid a wreck. besides, any of us who have simply swerved (spelling?) to avoid a skunk etc. know that its almost better to hit it than try to manuever these schoolbus-like vehicles. i've always been impressed with how ABS works: its instant reaction to say a clunp of snow or gravel on a road, its ability to sense it only on one wheel. looks good on paper. but i hate it when it kicks in for no reason backing out of my driveway, or when i'm trying to stop on a muddy hill. so i think the fuse is about to come out...

 

[jhmover]

They forgot to factor in stupid drivers, which are in abundance. The same morons who can't figure out how to merge onto the freeway, use their turn signals, actually get in the lane they're supposed to be in for the on-ramp without waiting until they're 20 feet from the ramp, have to immediately get in the fast lane even though they're going 30 MPH less than the traffic flow, think that STOP on the sign means slow down (what me stop?), drive 50 MPH in residential neighborhoods and school zones, sit in the fast lane going 48 MPH while talking on the cell phone completely oblivious they have a 5 mile line of cars stacked up behind them, etc., are expected to know how to brake? Give me a break! I"d say around here most of them are lucky they can figure out how to start the car!!!!!

 

[antichrist]

I"d say around here most of them are lucky they can figure out how to start the car!!!!!

And we'd be lucky if they couldn't.

 

[JamesWyatt]

The only time I've felt my Disco ABS was useful was once I had to do an emergency petal-to-the-floor maneuver at 70mph in the rain.

On dry pavement it sucks.

ABS as implemented on the Disco is terrible. Once this thing is out of warranty, I'd rather set fire to it than pay to upkeep the ABS system. The D2 ABS system doesn't just have gremlins, it has gremlins on crack.

ABS as implemented on the Volkswagens I've owned has been superb.