for 70 yr old mom: 04 D2 vs LR3 vs Subaru Outback H6 vs Toyota ?

[jwest]

Considering what to replace mom's 1996 Disco with.

1st: What does she like about the 96 and why change now?

Bad: It's getting on in miles, has growing rust and more frequency of annoying troubles like now AC doesn't work somewhere between compressor and head unit. Electrical gremlins more often (lights come on just for hell of it etc when parked - workaround she uses is cut-off at battery when parked LOL)

Good: She loves riding up high in it, seeing the roadway for traffic but also view of landscape on trips, feels safe from being hit by other vehicles (somewhat irrational but was hurt in a red light runner many years ago while in a sedan). She likes how well it grips in snow, dirt roads to hiking trails, etc. ...and she says "it's just cool, like a big toy"

She's moving from a small town with nobody to do serious work on it but only 4 hrs from me and 4 -6 shops/dealers to choose from to a small town with closest rover tech maybe 2 hrs away. * Grand Marais MN which is 2 hrs up north shore Lk superior from Duluth MN....

I figure she could use something for her limited driving that is at least more 'reliable' - not that the 96 has stranded her, it has had more frequent issues like when I had to go out there to replace the steering pump last summer and find parts for permanent fix of rear window regulator. She came to Tacoma last summer where I could do more little things and have dealer look into the AC issue - deemed not worth the $ to fix after finding the compressor worked w power to it.

I have the 04 disco .... it's only 90,000 miles and in top working condition owned since 2006. I also have the lr3 which she finds "bigger" than the d1 but I think it's in part due to all the shit on it. I could actually let her have/use the D2.... but how is that any better in terms of finding a proper mechanic near her? Same goes I guess for an lr3 but in some ways I feel like it'll need stuff less often.

Hence idea for more common Subaru, Toyota, or I suppose even a Ford.... God forbid

Any ideas welcome - what would you do in your 40's for a mom in her early 70's who likes to get out hiking, snowshoeing, camping, etc. but is in now way mechanically inclined and always feels like she'll be taken advantage of by mechanics unless they are well recommended?

Oh, my budget is around $10-12k but that happens to be a 07 Subaru H6, or lr3 or d2 - I haven't researched Toyota 4 Runners Highlanders of similar age 2005-2008 ish.

thx

 

[jwest]

we all love our land rovers, new old, funky, sleek, but my guy feeling is to find her a Toyota 4runner - gen 4 ad w v8 for towing capacity..... maybe i can push my budget up to mid-high teens... highlander just seems too much like a car but then how can it be much worse than a subaru outback. both are probably not in her "sit up high" list but the 4 runner is.

 

[mgreenspan]

I recommend an 03-05 GX470. In that price and super reliable. Sits and feels nearly the same as a Discovery. V8 drives very well with the 5 speed auto and tows great. We've had an 07 for almost 4 years and it has required nothing aside from regular maintenance schedule. Gets over 20 on the highway depending on your speed and driving style. I would avoid the KDSS option, though. Just look to see that the dash was replaced under warranty to avoid the unsightly "melting".

 

[jwest]

I recommend an 03-05 GX470. In that price and super reliable. Sits and feels nearly the same as a Discovery. V8 drives very well with the 5 speed auto and tows great. We've had an 07 for almost 4 years and it has required nothing aside from regular maintenance schedule. Gets over 20 on the highway depending on your speed and driving style. I would avoid the KDSS option, though. Just look to see that the dash was replaced under warranty to avoid the unsightly "melting".

ah yes, I forgot the option for Lexus version so I hadn't compared pricing. Is it like in the Land Cruisers where you can often find lower mileage Gx for similar pricing? She doesn't even care about heated seats but she did mention liking my touch screen nav vs having to look at a small smart phone for it.

What would be the practical reasons for the gx over the 4runner?

After talking again tonight, any car-like thing such as the Subaru is not an option and for similar reasons nor is the Highlander as she wants 5-7k towing capacity as well as more space than the smaller things have inside the 2nd row & cargo area.

She also mentioned liking being able to drive through 2 ft of snow if needed for short distances LOL - apparently she's really been spoiled by the capability of the rover with it's minor lift and slightly larger bfg at tires.
thanks!

 

[discostew]

Let her drive the Disco2 and buy some time. I would do that because it's going to drive a lot like what she's used to, and because you know the truck. My wife drove a Disco1, then a LR3, and now drives a 2013 LR2. She really likes the LR2. Great in the snow with a set of Blizzacs on it. Dependable and they do pretty good in wrecks.

 

[stu454]

Sounds like she needs an LR3.

 

[mgreenspan]

GX over the 4Runner. Engine. Depending on year, transmission. Air suspension in the rear. Swing out door for the rear like the Discovery. Better towing (I actually think the 4Runner is 500lbs higher than the GX but having towed with a GX and driven a short distance with a 4Runner towing they are not the same. GX is super easy and you don't even notice you're towing). Sitting height is higher in the GX than the 4Runner. The touchscreen in the one we have is very easy to use. Better finishing materials. Sound level is very quiet for a V8 SUV compared to a 4Runner especially. Seats 8 and has the same Land Cruiser style removable flip down from the side forward facing third row seats.

I think pricing is usually sub 80k will be over $20k for whatever year. I'd buy one with 200k if it had all the maintenance receipts and the dash replaced. You can find them from around $8k-20k+. A huge range of prices mostly based on mileage, but like I said the vehicles are incredibly reliable. Before I bought mine the only thing it had aside from regular schedule was an alternator replacement. Since owning I've had the dash replaced, but bought mine knowing it was still eligible for the 10 year dash replacement. So I sacrificed having to deal with that to get a vehicle from the southwest.

 

[jymmiejamz]

You should get her an LR2. They are the most reliable Land Rover by a long shot and are still a decent size. My dad who is 70 drives one and hasn't done anything to it other than brakes, tires, and services. I think it has over 100k miles now.

 

[discostew]

Sounds like she needs an LR3.

LR3's are pretty heavy trucks. The LR2 drivetrain does a good job in snow. If you can find a 2012 in pretty good shape it might be my choice over the 2.0 TDI. Be cheaper too. The LR2 is pretty much a Volvo.

The LR2 does a really good job winning over women who have driven Discovery and LR3. Something about the way they are sitting up higher with kind of a similar perspective. I gave my wife a choice between a 2 door Evoque, 4 door Evoque, and the LR2. She bought the LR2 because of visability.

 

[mgreenspan]

Another big difference on the 4Runner versus GX470 difference is full time 4wd on the GX470.

 

[pinkytoe69]

Another big difference on the 4Runner versus GX470 difference is full time 4wd on the GX470.

I think the GX specs out almost identically drive train-wise to the 4runner Limited.

Just to add on...

We've had an 04 for 10k miles since buying at 213k. Other than oil, done the timing belt and rear air shocks which were both pretty easy. Had the 3-4 transmission shudder, but I put 11 quarts of Amsoil in and it hasn't returned.

The Toyota 4.7 is underpowered, but one of the most reliable engines ever made

 

[mgreenspan]

The Toyota 4.7 is underpowered

I never understand statements like this. The vehicle is big and can accelerate quickly. What the hell do people want out of engines and vehicles? Underpowered for a 1/4 mile race or a 0-60 time? This is exactly why the US never got diesel engines in Rovers or any other vehicle. Our automotive consumers are obsessed with this idea of super fast cars that will see 25-45 mph in traffic on a daily basis and go 77mph on a good day where the user is doing 7 mph above the speed limit thinking they are getting away with murder.

I didn't know the limited had full time 4wd.

 

[pinkytoe69]

I never understand statements like this. The vehicle is big and can accelerate quickly. What the hell do people want out of engines and vehicles? Underpowered for a 1/4 mile race or a 0-60 time?

I'm guessing cause it's a modern-ish v8 that only puts out 235hp?

Fwiw, the wife and I have had no issues with its peppiness, and, as you said, that's not what it's meant to be anyway. For us it's a cheap, cushy, soccer-mom car to keep the kids safe and never get stuck in the snow.

I didn't know the limited had full time 4wd.

Maybe I'm wrong as well... Sounds odd, but according to this, they all have full-time 4wd, with the v6 having 2wd too.

http://www.toyota120.com/html/4runner.html

 

[discostew]

I'm guessing cause it's a modern-ish v8 that only puts out 235hp?

Fwiw, the wife and I have had no issues with its peppiness, and, as you said, that's not what it's meant to be anyway. For us it's a cheap, cushy, soccer-mom car to keep the kids safe and never get stuck in the snow.



Maybe I'm wrong as well... Sounds odd, but according to this, they all have full-time 4wd, with the v6 having 2wd too.

http://www.toyota120.com/html/4runner.html

Basically the difference between all wheel drive and full time 4 wheel drive is a 2 speed transfer case. Some GM guys get tripped up by the viscous coupler used in the borg warner t case in the LP Range and later classics. I came from GM and never saw a viscous coupler used in a 2 speed t case.

 

[jwest]

Let her drive the Disco2 and buy some time. I would do that because it's going to drive a lot like what she's used to, and because you know the truck. My wife drove a Disco1, then a LR3, and now drives a 2013 LR2. She really likes the LR2. Great in the snow with a set of Blizzacs on it. Dependable and they do pretty good in wrecks.

No offense Stew but IMO the lr3 is a cute toy. For her list it's too small inside anyway and for visual site lines, the lr3 really isn't so great when you're used to looking almost straight down from the high seats and low window edges in the d1/2 and even the lr3 when seat is adjusted up high. My opinion anyway

Plus I also mentioned towing is mandatory.... lr2 is not a tower. even the v6 4runner isn't much of a tower when compared to the lr3 though it's rating it probably similar to the d2 listed numbers of what 5500 or so?

 

[jwest]

I think the GX specs out almost identically drive train-wise to the 4runner Limited.

Just to add on...

We've had an 04 for 10k miles since buying at 213k. Other than oil, done the timing belt and rear air shocks which were both pretty easy. Had the 3-4 transmission shudder, but I put 11 quarts of Amsoil in and it hasn't returned.

The Toyota 4.7 is underpowered, but one of the most reliable engines ever made

You bought an 04 gx at 213k miles? Probably quite a good $/machine value so far then - it sounds like anyway? Using wiki I think it was the 05+ that had some feature I can't recall now, maybe the VVT on v8's.

Looking at Autotrader, the 2006 Land Cruiser is becoming quite the value too IMO.

Where in MN are you and do you have any links to finding solid LR techs up the north shore? There's one guy in Hoveland we know but that's all.

If I do go the route of loaning her my 04 D2, I'll of course want to know who's up there we can trust to handle anything.

 

[jwest]

I never understand statements like this. The vehicle is big and can accelerate quickly. What the hell do people want out of engines and vehicles? Underpowered for a 1/4 mile race or a 0-60 time? This is exactly why the US never got diesel engines in Rovers or any other vehicle. Our automotive consumers are obsessed with this idea of super fast cars that will see 25-45 mph in traffic on a daily basis and go 77mph on a good day where the user is doing 7 mph above the speed limit thinking they are getting away with murder.

I didn't know the limited had full time 4wd.

If one is patient, then true, lots of torque or HP really aren't necessary but if you're towing in mtns, it does become an issue. If one is not patient, and likes passing on 2 lane roads, then I think we can all agree we've almost never felt like "gosh, I could get by this driver a lot slower and be just fine with that..." In passing, faster sooner is safer.

FYI: I'm the driver who gets looks from morons leaving stop lights in such a rush as if they're in a Nascar race only to have them in my way out on the highway where they are apparently no longer in a fucking hurry. I take my time to bring the 8000 lb lr3 up to 80 but am always 'teaching' people to get the heck out of the left lane if they're only going to run the actual speed limit!

 

[jwest]

Sounds like she needs an LR3.

Oddly when she's had my lr3 for a couple weeks while I had work done on hr d1, she was very aware of it's lesser site lines from driver seat but I think it was partially due to the sense that the bullbar and rear w tire carrier are honestly sticking out further than you can see directly.

LR3 is also noticeably wider both inside and out. The result inside is that you sit less close to the window sill and that takes away from the sense of seeing straight down the the front left tire.

What she did not get to experience is the incredible turning radius and how much quieter it is inside on the highway, great hvac, heated seats, etc. A number of these things she will really like on the D2 esp the heated windscreen in northern MN. I hadn't thought of it until now but the D2 door handles are also a lot easier to open for anyone who might have decreasing hand strength or flexibility compared to the cool styling of the d1 flush handles up high. This matters less on a low sedan IMO.

So, I think I am probably almost set on the temporary D2 loaner for her. It's also all set up for a bit of backup security by having the dual battery, on board air, roto-coupler swapped for metal Ujoint, couple extra running lights, quick plug to battery, engine block heater. etc.

I may not have mentioned she likes to hike and camp but sometimes wants the choice to sleep inside like us guys do on a side platform in the back. This cuts out lr2 and most other "cross-over" types like CRV, RAV4, Subi forester, etc.

However, I could actually see her liking a 4wd van, not huge like a Sprinter but maybe something else sized more like a VW syncro (without the maintenance/reliability concern) or possibly a Ford short box like Sportsmobile idea..... those get pricey though.

 

[pinkytoe69]

You bought an 04 gx at 213k miles? Probably quite a good $/machine value so far then - it sounds like anyway? Using wiki I think it was the 05+ that had some feature I can't recall now, maybe the VVT on v8's.

Yup, she's just getting broken in .

Yeah, the VVT-I was introduced around then. I read it doesn't really give alot more power or mpgs, and introduces a wear/maintenance item, so I was fine going without.

Where in MN are you and do you have any links to finding solid LR techs up the north shore? There's one guy in Hoveland we know but that's all.

I'm in the east metro and do all my own shit...have no clue about Duluth-ian mechs

Expedition autoworks seems to be the big name in the metro area.

 

[jwest]

thx, I'll ring them up to see if they know anyone further up. Duluth is only 1/2 way there


VVT note is good idea. Similar to how I was having lr4 5.0 v8 envy until a mechanic I know said he's seen a lot of issues w the 5L while the lr3 v8 has been much fewer issues. Sees mine as actually less trouble longer term in that regard. Now I need to see when the Land Cruiser got vvt. I figure Toyota did these things across the lines at certain points in time so there may be a 2003-04 LC pre-VVT.