FIVESPDDISCO said:
If I did decide to try this route, minor things like that are cake. Truthfully, I doubt I'll be doing much to the engine till the current one dies, its probably got another 20k in it
Forced Induction - Lucas EMS
- Thread starter walsnart
- Start date
If I did decide to try this route, minor things like that are cake. Truthfully, I doubt I'll be doing much to the engine till the current one dies, its probably got another 20k in it
I've been doing turbos for a long time. You can turbo any engine. I mean ANY engine. Run the appropriate fuel trims and boost levels for your build, and you'll be fine. it's all in the tuning.
Btw, since we're on the topic, is there anything the LR computer runs aside from the engine? If I did a Megasquirt system, would there be any reason to piggy back it to the stocker for trans control and such, or is the trans control and body control in a seperate system.
Btw, since we're on the topic, is there anything the LR computer runs aside from the engine? If I did a Megasquirt system, would there be any reason to piggy back it to the stocker for trans control and such, or is the trans control and body control in a seperate system.
F
frickjp
Guest
From Wikipedia
From 1961 to 1963 Oldsmobile manufactured its own version of the Buick-designed, all-aluminum 215 engine for the F-85 compact, known as the Rockette. This was a compact, lightweight engine with a dry weight of only 350 lb (159 kg). The Oldsmobile engine was very similar to the Buick engine, but not identical: it had larger combustion chambers with flat-topped (rather than domed) pistons, six bolts rather than five per cylinder head, and slighly larger intake valves. With an 8.75:1 compression ratio and a two-barrel carburetor, the Olds 215 had the same rated hp, 155 hp @ 4800 rpm, as the Buick 215, with 220 ft?lbf of torque at 2400 rpm. With a four-barrel carburetor and 10.25:1 compression, the Olds 215 made 185 hp (138 kW) @ 4800 rpm and 230 ft?lbf (312 N?m) (@ 3200 rpm.
The basic Buick/Olds 215 V8 went onto become the well known Rover V8, remaining in production until the 1990s.
Turbo Jetfire
In 1962 and 1963 Oldsmobile built a turbocharged version of the 215. The small-diameter turbocharger was manufactured by Garrett AiResearch and produced a maximum of 5 lb (0.34 bar) boost at 2200 rpm. The engine had 10.25:1 compression and a single-barrel carburetor. It was rated at 215 hp (160 kW) @ 4600 rpm and 300 ft?lbf (406 N?m) @ 3200 rpm. The high compression ratio created a serious problem with spark knock on hard throttle applications, which led Olds to use a novel water-injection system that sprayed small amounts of distilled water and methyl alcohol (dubbed "Turbo-Rocket Fluid") into the combustion chambers to cool the intake charge. If the fluid reservoir was empty, the engine's timing would be retarded to avoid engine damage. Unfortunately, many customers did not keep the reservoir filled, or had mechanical problems with the turbocharger plumbing.
The turbocharger was offered only in a special Jetfire model, which was the first turbocharged passenger car offered for public sale. Only 9,607 were sold in two model years, and many were converted by dealers to conventional four-barrel carbureted form.
GM seemed to have figured it out.
atriot:
From 1961 to 1963 Oldsmobile manufactured its own version of the Buick-designed, all-aluminum 215 engine for the F-85 compact, known as the Rockette. This was a compact, lightweight engine with a dry weight of only 350 lb (159 kg). The Oldsmobile engine was very similar to the Buick engine, but not identical: it had larger combustion chambers with flat-topped (rather than domed) pistons, six bolts rather than five per cylinder head, and slighly larger intake valves. With an 8.75:1 compression ratio and a two-barrel carburetor, the Olds 215 had the same rated hp, 155 hp @ 4800 rpm, as the Buick 215, with 220 ft?lbf of torque at 2400 rpm. With a four-barrel carburetor and 10.25:1 compression, the Olds 215 made 185 hp (138 kW) @ 4800 rpm and 230 ft?lbf (312 N?m) (@ 3200 rpm.
The basic Buick/Olds 215 V8 went onto become the well known Rover V8, remaining in production until the 1990s.
Turbo Jetfire
In 1962 and 1963 Oldsmobile built a turbocharged version of the 215. The small-diameter turbocharger was manufactured by Garrett AiResearch and produced a maximum of 5 lb (0.34 bar) boost at 2200 rpm. The engine had 10.25:1 compression and a single-barrel carburetor. It was rated at 215 hp (160 kW) @ 4600 rpm and 300 ft?lbf (406 N?m) @ 3200 rpm. The high compression ratio created a serious problem with spark knock on hard throttle applications, which led Olds to use a novel water-injection system that sprayed small amounts of distilled water and methyl alcohol (dubbed "Turbo-Rocket Fluid") into the combustion chambers to cool the intake charge. If the fluid reservoir was empty, the engine's timing would be retarded to avoid engine damage. Unfortunately, many customers did not keep the reservoir filled, or had mechanical problems with the turbocharger plumbing.
The turbocharger was offered only in a special Jetfire model, which was the first turbocharged passenger car offered for public sale. Only 9,607 were sold in two model years, and many were converted by dealers to conventional four-barrel carbureted form.
GM seemed to have figured it out.
atriot: So, since my D1 is a '94, what are the operations controlled by the ECM, so I can turbo this badboy and run Megasquirt.
There are lots of these used blowers out there on the market and they sell from 800-2000 for a used kit. The 14CUX trucks do ok, the GEMS ones I have seen all disable the CEL and tend to run like crap, albeit, they run like crap quickly.
Ron
Ron
Good info, Reed.
No wonder they have problem, pushing the CR to over 10.25 : 1, nowdays we don't find many turbo charge cars that have a CR over 9 to 1. AFAIK, the volvo 40 series engine, 160 hp low boost version has and CR of 9. and the T4( for Europe and Asia model, 200hp high boost version has an CR of 8.5. boost @ 0.8-0.9 bar.
The volvo engine is pretty much like ours Aliuminun block w/ iron cylinder insert.
Ours CR is @ 8:13.1, so it should be pretty safe to be boost at under0.6 bar.
GDxTC, I am also interested in turbocharging the V8. What is the price range for the MegaSqurit? For the fuel management, there are tons of peggy back system or stand along system that can be use, but it will be painful and a lot of money goes to the equipment to tune the AF right. Basicly all peggy back system just modifcate the MAF signal to trick the ECU for push out more fuel, do you have any info about the injectors?
I took a look at the Greddy's Ultmate emanage system a while ago, it was pretty cool, just plug in the desire AF, the it do the tuneing itself, will make the ECU to provide the fuel accordingly, pretty easy rather than mapping the fuel VS every 800 rpm and also VS thottle percentage. but it does not apply for our V8 the only V8 that work is from Toyota.
No wonder they have problem, pushing the CR to over 10.25 : 1, nowdays we don't find many turbo charge cars that have a CR over 9 to 1. AFAIK, the volvo 40 series engine, 160 hp low boost version has and CR of 9. and the T4( for Europe and Asia model, 200hp high boost version has an CR of 8.5. boost @ 0.8-0.9 bar.
The volvo engine is pretty much like ours Aliuminun block w/ iron cylinder insert.
Ours CR is @ 8:13.1, so it should be pretty safe to be boost at under0.6 bar.
GDxTC, I am also interested in turbocharging the V8. What is the price range for the MegaSqurit? For the fuel management, there are tons of peggy back system or stand along system that can be use, but it will be painful and a lot of money goes to the equipment to tune the AF right. Basicly all peggy back system just modifcate the MAF signal to trick the ECU for push out more fuel, do you have any info about the injectors?
I took a look at the Greddy's Ultmate emanage system a while ago, it was pretty cool, just plug in the desire AF, the it do the tuneing itself, will make the ECU to provide the fuel accordingly, pretty easy rather than mapping the fuel VS every 800 rpm and also VS thottle percentage. but it does not apply for our V8 the only V8 that work is from Toyota.
Megasquirt itself is around $300. It is very much DIY though. It does have a very good support network.
As for tuning, you can either run a base map from another person in the network and tune it on a dyno, or buy a WB 02. I have a WB already in my toolbox, since I do a lot of that kind of work.
Megasquirt is definately NOT easy to tune. It's not bad, but you do really need to know how the system works and how you're engine and all it's sensors relate. The system can be made to work on just about anything.
It's a bit of a trade off. A lot of work, but a very powerful system(moreso even than most of the $2500 + systems), and very cheap. Or, very expensive and user friendly.
As for tuning, you can either run a base map from another person in the network and tune it on a dyno, or buy a WB 02. I have a WB already in my toolbox, since I do a lot of that kind of work.
Megasquirt is definately NOT easy to tune. It's not bad, but you do really need to know how the system works and how you're engine and all it's sensors relate. The system can be made to work on just about anything.
It's a bit of a trade off. A lot of work, but a very powerful system(moreso even than most of the $2500 + systems), and very cheap. Or, very expensive and user friendly.
Ed Cheung said:
Ed - Back in the '60s we used to build ENGINES, and there was even gas at the pumps with the required octane to run them. If I remember right SUNOCO sold some gas that was rated higher than AV gas. But even then putting a forced induction system on our favorite engine needed the "water" injection for periods of high boost. In '63 we didn't need no stinking smog equipment. Now all the engines are just too retarded.
I picked up a great book from Bently called simply "supercharged" by c. bell.
It's geared more towards race engines, but has all the math needed to figure it all out and is in understandable terms.
Has a separate chapter for the 3 major types, roots, screw, and centrifugal.
the turbo and screw make their power better at higher RPM and boost, the roots shines at lower rpm (1-4k) and boost levels (5-8psi) -perfect for the LR enginges and use IMHO
It covers designing a full system, from airfilter to muffler, including injector sizing and ECU mapping.
Highly recommended if you're serious about FI.
It's geared more towards race engines, but has all the math needed to figure it all out and is in understandable terms.
Has a separate chapter for the 3 major types, roots, screw, and centrifugal.
the turbo and screw make their power better at higher RPM and boost, the roots shines at lower rpm (1-4k) and boost levels (5-8psi) -perfect for the LR enginges and use IMHO
It covers designing a full system, from airfilter to muffler, including injector sizing and ECU mapping.
Highly recommended if you're serious about FI.
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FINALLY got my S/C... not rebuilt as stated so that's the first matter. the rotors are visibly scored, I don't know if it's even salvageable. I see what RPI were talking about with the poor fuel mixure, because the pictured engine had a 9th injector before the blower, not the best solution. the fuel coming out of the bottom of the blower went straight down into the front cyl, none could make 2x 90deg turns to get to the back cyls = lean = detonation = breakage...
I've got some ideas of mods for the manifold and a machinist to talk to on monday..
A chip and intercooler are next on the list.
I've got some ideas of mods for the manifold and a machinist to talk to on monday..
A chip and intercooler are next on the list.
B
byronAU
Guest
Hey.....I like it!!!!!.......and it tells us exactly how to go......BTW, as soon as I read the Comp ratio, I thought it was a bad typo OR "Boy - is that going to ping like crazy!!!!!".......simple way to drop C.R. is to use double LR Composite gaskets........WAY TO GO DUDE !!!!!!!!Reed said:From Wikipedia
From 1961 to 1963 Oldsmobile manufactured its own version of the Buick-designed, all-aluminum 215 engine for the F-85 compact, known as the Rockette. This was a compact, lightweight engine with a dry weight of only 350 lb (159 kg). The Oldsmobile engine was very similar to the Buick engine, but not identical: it had larger combustion chambers with flat-topped (rather than domed) pistons, six bolts rather than five per cylinder head, and slighly larger intake valves. With an 8.75:1 compression ratio and a two-barrel carburetor, the Olds 215 had the same rated hp, 155 hp @ 4800 rpm, as the Buick 215, with 220 ft·lbf of torque at 2400 rpm. With a four-barrel carburetor and 10.25:1 compression, the Olds 215 made 185 hp (138 kW) @ 4800 rpm and 230 ft·lbf (312 N·m) (@ 3200 rpm.
The basic Buick/Olds 215 V8 went onto become the well known Rover V8, remaining in production until the 1990s.
Turbo Jetfire
In 1962 and 1963 Oldsmobile built a turbocharged version of the 215. The small-diameter turbocharger was manufactured by Garrett AiResearch and produced a maximum of 5 lb (0.34 bar) boost at 2200 rpm. The engine had 10.25:1 compression and a single-barrel carburetor. It was rated at 215 hp (160 kW) @ 4600 rpm and 300 ft·lbf (406 N·m) @ 3200 rpm. The high compression ratio created a serious problem with spark knock on hard throttle applications, which led Olds to use a novel water-injection system that sprayed small amounts of distilled water and methyl alcohol (dubbed "Turbo-Rocket Fluid") into the combustion chambers to cool the intake charge. If the fluid reservoir was empty, the engine's timing would be retarded to avoid engine damage. Unfortunately, many customers did not keep the reservoir filled, or had mechanical problems with the turbocharger plumbing.
The turbocharger was offered only in a special Jetfire model, which was the first turbocharged passenger car offered for public sale. Only 9,607 were sold in two model years, and many were converted by dealers to conventional four-barrel carbureted form.
GM seemed to have figured it out.