Front Auto Locker..?

[Jake1996D1]

He does'nt know. He has not driven his truck in a year.

haha fuck u Brett

I just put the 35's on a couple weeks ago. I will let you know but just looking at how big these tires are... I'm not counting on it - which is why I made the Ashcroft comment before I have even got stuck with these.

 

[Jake1996D1]

why are you anti air ?

we have no problems with the air on our lockers as they don't leak, mainly as the design does not rely on a rotating air seal,

Dave

My point and thought exactly! This is one of the only reasons I didnt go with an ARB the first time around. And I didnt really have plans to go any bigger than a 33.. Now that I have Ashcroft air locker is on the list!!

Dave - can you tell us more about the ATB and how they are holding up and how they compare to air lockers with the bigger tires etc. Noticed a good price of $468 here in the US, not bad for a limited slip

Why do you say the Kaiser is only good on 32s and performance suffers?

Correct me if I am wrong - which I might be but I thought the Kaiser ran on a similar basis as the tru-trac but used roller pins instead of those little helical gears?

If it is a true locker I would be concerned putting it in the front of a truck that sees the streets. As good as it says it works, I dont know I'd be concerned of the one time it didnt unlock in a turn and you're in the ditch.

 

[ipgregory]

Kaiser and TruTrac are nothing alike mechanically or functionally. TruTrac is a LSD, Kaiser is a locker and they are completely different internally.

I ran mine in the front with no issues other than some initial minor torque steer when I 1st put it in that went away after a few miles of break in. Based on the way it works, there would have to be a mechanical failure to stop it ‘unlocking’ (wrong term but it will do) in a turn.

Mine runs on 33” tiresin a D90 in the rocks all the time and I have yet to have an issue after about 2 yrs of use. Their warranty specifically doesn’t restrict the tire size in use (check your Eaton warranty) and they run them on trucks, tractors and drag and rally cars in SA.

 

[95 disco]

I run 32?s (265?s) with 2 inch RTE springs and spacers and measure 17 inches of flex in the rear and about 10 in the front. Just looking for some added traction from a locker. I have always drooled over ARB?s but don?t care much for the cost and have heard that they require a lot of maintenance.. (But that depends on who you talk to.) I like the thought of a locker that I can just drive with and not worry much about. Ive thought about a TT but have seen them let some rigs down in a tough spot. Just concerned about a true auto locker up front..

 

[Jake1996D1]

I run 32’s (265’s) with 2 inch RTE springs and spacers and measure 17 inches of flex in the rear and about 10 in the front. Just looking for some added traction from a locker. I have always drooled over ARB’s but don’t care much for the cost and have heard that they require a lot of maintenance.. (But that depends on who you talk to.) I like the thought of a locker that I can just drive with and not worry much about. Ive thought about a TT but have seen them let some rigs down in a tough spot. Just concerned about a true auto locker up front..

Here's my advise from somebody who is always cheap but wants all the nice and fun stuff..

If the Kaiser is a true locker you will need HD axles even on the smaller tires if you push it hard. With the truetrac you can get away with stock axles an cv's on 32's. I ran it for about 6 months and get in above my head and love the skinny pedal.

If you want the best set up start saving and buy Ashcroft product as possible. Their lockers dont leak like the ARBs often do and wont need "maintance". You will need HD axles if you run lockers. If you're doing diffs you might as well do gears.

OR start with a Detroit and Ashcroft rear axles and see where that gets you. Then you can decide what to do in the front if you're not able to make it where you want to go. With 32's and a detroit in the rear I can tell you the tire height/clerance is going to be the limiting factor not the traction. The few times I ever got truely stuck with 32's and Detroit/TT combo my diff and axle were high centered and even having ARBs or Ashcrofts front and rear, I would have just spun my tires. Never had any problems in the rocks or hill climbs.

Once you start getting into diff, axles, gears, drive shafts ect that when you get to make a choice. Do you want the best set up. Or do you just want a set up thats a little better than what you have now. Either way it's not cheap!

 

[ipgregory]

Kaiser is a true full time locker and yes if you like to mash the pedal you will need to uprate the axles as with any other full time locker set up. It’s the only true full time locker I am aware of that can be used in the front successfully and per my experience, safely. Correct me if I’m wrong there?

Ashcroft's new air locker has certainly turned the cost vs. features argument upside down in many cases. I am sure it’s going to force the other players to have to look at their pricing and strategy if it takes off in significant numbers which is a good thing. It’s a great looking product at a steal of a price. I haven’t seen or tried one though.

Jake, how much ground clearance did your switch from 32’s to 35’s buy you?

 

[Jake1996D1]

Kaiser is a true full time locker and yes if you like to mash the pedal you will need to uprate the axles as with any other full time locker set up. It’s the only true full time locker I am aware of that can be used in the front successfully and per my experience, safely. Correct me if I’m wrong there?

Ashcroft's new air locker has certainly turned the cost vs. features argument upside down in many cases. I am sure it’s going to force the other players to have to look at their pricing and strategy if it takes off in significant numbers which is a good thing. It’s a great looking product at a steal of a price. I haven’t seen or tried one though.

Jake, how much ground clearance did your switch from 32’s to 35’s buy you?

Never measured when I had 32's but I would guess around a solid 3"

I have a little over 12" under diff and almost 15" under axle

 

[ipgregory]

So you're saying you gained 3" of ground clearance by going from 32s to 35s?

Want to look at your clearance numbers again? By clearance I am talking about how much additional room under your lowest point (diff) did you gain from the change in tire size. Take into account you will (should) be aired down as well so we’re talking about on trial situations where it matters, not mall parking barriers. I assume you kept the same diameter wheels?

Reason I ask is not a dig at you but because I am curious. Yours was the 2nd similar post I had seen in the last few days suggesting that once you have 35s on then you can go anywhere and get through anything. Exaggeration a little on what you said I know but that was the impression I got from what you and the other guy wrote. Just want to understand why you guys are thinking that?

 

[fishEH]

Yeah my guess is that the clearance gain was aroun 1.5" if he went from a true 32" to a true 35". It isn't all about ground clearance, the 35's do much better over large rocks and such.

 

[ipgregory]

With the greater compression of the taller sidewalls when aired down on the trail its more like about an inch but yes, you get my point. He'll gain a fractionaly longer contact patch as well assuming the tire width is the same.

Not saying the 35s won't get him places the 32s won't, just trying to point out that the gains are not quite as magical as is being suggested. "Fitted 35s, job done I am unbeatable and can go anywhere" is not the case as has been posted a couple of times recently. Just means you're going to get into places where you wish you had 37s...

 

[Jake1996D1]

So you're saying you gained 3" of ground clearance by going from 32s to 35s?

Want to look at your clearance numbers again? By clearance I am talking about how much additional room under your lowest point (diff) did you gain from the change in tire size. Take into account you will (should) be aired down as well so we’re talking about on trial situations where it matters, not mall parking barriers. I assume you kept the same diameter wheels?

Reason I ask is not a dig at you but because I am curious. Yours was the 2nd similar post I had seen in the last few days suggesting that once you have 35s on then you can go anywhere and get through anything. Exaggeration a little on what you said I know but that was the impression I got from what you and the other guy wrote. Just want to understand why you guys are thinking that?

OK so I had a buddy measure to his lowest point of his diff and he has a brand new set of treadwright 235/85's.

a. why does it mattered if you're aired down or not if were comparing tires sizes. The only thing that should matter is they are at the same PSI.

b. No I didnt keep the same wheel stock rover wheels are only 7" wide and I drive my truck on the road as well.

His diff 10" axle 13"
My diff 12" alxe 15" so that is +/-2 I would guess more like 1.75" if we are gonna get technical. Not sure where I was going with the 3" thing I meant the tires were 3" taller - I'm not very good at math in case you havent figured it out yet.

I wasnt trying to say "bolt on 35's and you can go anywhere" but my point was there is a lot more that plays into not getting stuck than just adding lockers. Simply stated, with lockers, long travel suspension etc my only issue was in DEEP rutted mud where I would get high centered, thus rendering suspension and lockers useless.

My point is - look at HOW you're getting stuck or WHAT obstacle yours truck cant get around or over and build your truck that way. Dont just think lockers is the magic cure-all and will make your truck un-stoppable.

 

[robertf]

Ashcroft's new air locker has certainly turned the cost vs. features argument upside down in many cases. I am sure it?s going to force the other players to have to look at their pricing and strategy if it takes off in significant numbers which is a good thing. It?s a great looking product at a steal of a price. I haven?t seen or tried one though.

ARBs are $835 from Rocky Road. Ashcroft costs more.

 

[Jake1996D1]

ARBs are $835 from Rocky Road. Ashcroft costs more.

and are better

 

[robertf]

disagree

 

[Jake1996D1]

disagree

How and why?

 

[ipgregory]

Ashcroft is 475 gbp plus shipping on their site today. Thats about $750 plus the trip assuming that's VAT free. If that includes VAT (doesn't say) then its quite a bit cheaper than that.

Jake,

Aired down or not matters because the larger tire will compress more when aired down than a smaller one. It's not the width of the wheel that matters it's the diameter. If you fit a 32 and a 35 on a 16" rim then the 35 has 1.5" more rubber sidewall that will compress. It means you lose some of the 1.5" radius gain from the bigger tires. Width only affects your contact patch. Wider tire - wider patch. Taller tire aired down = longer patch. Sidewall composition will have some play as well but not much. A tire with stiffer sidewalls will compress less than a softer one.

You're right on the "lockers make me invincible bit" being wrong of course but I didn't see that being suggested in the thread. Thats why I wondered at your comment and Mike's comment in the ASFIR thread. There are always a number of factors to consider. None of it matters if the wheel is not on the ground of course which is why you're spending so much time and money on your suspension, right?

 

[Jake1996D1]

Ashcroft is 475 gbp plus shipping on their site today. Thats about $750 plus the trip assuming that's VAT free. If that includes VAT (doesn't say) then its quite a bit cheaper than that.

Jake,

Aired down or not matters because the larger tire will compress more when aired down than a smaller one. It's not the width of the wheel that matters it's the diameter. If you fit a 32 and a 35 on a 16" rim then the 35 has 1.5" more rubber sidewall that will compress. It means you lose some of the 1.5" radius gain from the bigger tires. Width only affects your contact patch. Wider tire - wider patch. Taller tire aired down = longer patch. Sidewall composition will have some play as well but not much. A tire with stiffer sidewalls will compress less than a softer one.

You're right on the "lockers make me invincible bit" being wrong of course but I didn't see that being suggested in the thread. Thats why I wondered at your comment and Mike's comment in the ASFIR thread. There are always a number of factors to consider. None of it matters if the wheel is not on the ground of course which is why you're spending so much time and money on your suspension, right?

airing down or not would matter if I aired down a massive amount when I'm on the trails. You have me interested now to measure with 15-20PSI vs 35PSI. I doubt my axle clerance will change much more than a 32" tire that does the same. Now if I had 40" tires then you may have a more valid point.

Yes the reason I am spending money on suspension is to keep my wheels on the ground and to keep the rover in the up right position.

And dont listen to anthing Mike says he doesnt know anything nor does he know how to drive :rofl:

 

[ipgregory]

Depends on what you air down to of course. I run 12psi on the trail typically. Why would you care about your clearence at street pressure? You didn't fit larger tires to get over the blocks in the mall did you? You fitted them for the trail so its the trail conditions that should matter in your calculations. You have a tire that is 1.5" larger in radius than your previous set up, all things being equal. You will lose some of that gain when you air down due to the taller sidewall compressing more. That matters when you are considering your 'real' clearence increase under use. Not when its parked in your driveway at street pressure. At higher pressures the tire will balloon more so you are seeing some of that in your driveway measurments.

You were talking about mud and needing greater ground clearence to get you off the diff or axle in the ruts. This is why I started the ground clearence discussion. Its what you said the 35s give you. Just wasn't sure you understood just how little they actually give you. Also, if your 35s are wider, then in mud you just made it float more rather than cut through. That decreases its contact pressure and your available traction.

As fishEH pointed out you will gain in other areas that make the bigger tire beneficial. That's why people fit them after all.

You and Mike both made a similar statement regarding having 35s making you invincible. In both cases I didn't see anything earlier in the threads that suggested why the comments were made. Thats why I was curious and raised it here and took the thread completely off topic. My bad and sorry to the OP.

 

[Jake1996D1]

Depends on what you air down to of course. I run 12psi on the trail typically. Why would you care about your clearence at street pressure? You didn't fit larger tires to get over the blocks in the mall did you? You fitted them for the trail so its the trail considitions that should matter in your calculations. You have a tire that is 1.5" larger in radius than your previous set up, all things being equal. You will lose some of that gain when you air down due to the taller sidewall compressing more. That matters when you are considering your 'real' clearence increase under use. Not when its parked in your driveway at street pressure. At higher pressures the tire will balloon more so you are seeing some of that in your driveway measurments.

You were talking about mud and needing greater ground clearence to get you off the diff or axle in the ruts. This is why I started the ground clearence discussion. Its what you said the 35s give you. Just wasn't sure you understood just how little they actually give you. Also, if your 35s are wider, then in mud you just made it float more rather than cut through. That decreases its contact pressure and your available traction.

As fishEH pointed out you will gain in other areas that make the bigger tire beneficial. That's why people fit them after all.

You and Mike both made a similar statement regarding having 35s making you invincible. In both cases I didn't see anything earlier in the threads that suggested why the comments were made. Thats why I was curious and raised it here and took the thread completely off topic. My bad and sorry to the OP.

Thats if I air down for the trails Yes I know I didnt gain 5" under my diffs BUT the difference matters. If this were true nobody would run 32's instead of stock tires on their trucks.

Come out to the east coast some time and you can see why we build and do what we do and how it's applied.

And FWIW I don't recall saying that having 35's make you invincible? Actually I was talking Mike out of thinking that with the axle guard.

 

[ipgregory]

I'm British and grew up buried in Mud and low traction for the 1st 30+yrs. I lived in Gulf Coast Alabama and then coastal LA/Miss as well before moving here to the SW 10 years ago. I have a pretty good idea of what your wheeling in...

You didn't make the comment in the ASFIR thread, Mike did. You just made essentially the same one here though.

We'd best leave that axle gaurd in the other thread where it belongs I think.