Fuel odor in passenger compartment 1996 D1

[terryjm1]

I have a strong odor of fuel in the passenger compartment. I have dropped the tank and replaced the hoses and looked everywhere on the underside and engine compartment. I can’t find a leak anywhere. There is no odor in the engine compartment. I can detect a more faint odor on the exterior near the fuel tank.

The odor gets worse when driving up and down steep grades. It doesn’t seem to matter how much fuel is in the tank.

The one thing I haven’t checked is the fuel pump seal. Is this a common cause of fuel odor inside the passenger compartment? There is no evidence of a leak around the fuel pump. But, I guess if it is only vapor it would not leave any tell tale signs.

Im going to replace the seal regardless but if that doesn’t solve the problem… ugh!

 

[discostew]

maybe the tank has a crack in it. They had a recall on that and all of them didn’t get replaced. and you should check that seal

 

[94Disco1]

Would also check the charcoal canister/vapor management system. In my truck, one of the lines to the vapor management system broke off at the filler neck and pinched itself closed . Since there wasn't a venting system, the tank would heat up/pressurize with use and fuel vapor would come into the cab via the pump seal.
One thing that might be useful is to run the fuel pump off a separate 12v source. With the engine not running it makes it easier to see/hear/smell leaks.

 

[terryjm1]

While I am not quite ready to declare victory, I think the problem is solved.

What I failed to mention is I have two 96 D1s that were having this problem. One, which I will refer to as “willow” due to the color, was a complete resurrection. It had a locked up engine and required replacing almost everything in the braking system including the hard lines that had rusted out. It had been off the road just shy of 12 years, It has needed a LOT.

Among the many things it needed was a new fuel pump. I will admit, I reused the fuel tank seal when I installed it because I forgot to order a new one. However, it also had a completely rotten vent hose. I assumed that was the source fuel smell. I replaced the hose and the odor actually got worse. I got a bit frustrated with it and decided to work on my other 96 D1, which I will refer to as “Portofino” that also needed a lot of help.

Portofino had a fuel odor mostly only when the tank was full. I also assumed it was the 3/4 hose. So, I pulled the tank and replaced that hose and all the smaller hoses on the top of the tank that connect the hard plastic hoses to the vent ports. Just like Willow, it got worse.

That is when I started this post. The next most likely issue I could come up with was the fuel pump to tank seal. It would kind of make sense it got worse when I replaced the hoses. So, I ordered two fuel pump seals. They arrived today.

The first one I put the new seal in was Willow. When I replaced it I really didn’t think it would solve the problem as the old seal looked really good. It hadn’t hardened and looked to be in perfect condition. I replaced it anyway. I also blew air back through the vent pipe that goes to the charcoal canister. It was initially hard to push the air through but got easier quickly. I then went for a 20 mile drive and so far no fuel odor.

I then went to replace the pump seal in Portofino (previous owner installed this fuel pump) and much to my surprise there was no seal installed. I replaced the seal but didn’t take it for a drive as I ran out of time. However, I am relatively confident this problem is solved.

So, two lessons have been “re” learned. 1. Just because a seal looks good, it may not be. Replace it anyway. 2. Don’t assume the last guy did it right.

I will report back when I get more time driving Willow and when I get time to get Portofino out of the shop.

 

[Rangeroversurfer]

While I am not quite ready to declare victory, I think the problem is solved.

What I failed to mention is I have two 96 D1s that were having this problem. One, which I will refer to as “willow” due to the color, was a complete resurrection. It had a locked up engine and required replacing almost everything in the braking system including the hard lines that had rusted out. It had been off the road just shy of 12 years, It has needed a LOT.

Among the many things it needed was a new fuel pump. I will admit, I reused the fuel tank seal when I installed it because I forgot to order a new one. However, it also had a completely rotten vent hose. I assumed that was the source fuel smell. I replaced the hose and the odor actually got worse. I got a bit frustrated with it and decided to work on my other 96 D1, which I will refer to as “Portofino” that also needed a lot of help.

Portofino had a fuel odor mostly only when the tank was full. I also assumed it was the 3/4 hose. So, I pulled the tank and replaced that hose and all the smaller hoses on the top of the tank that connect the hard plastic hoses to the vent ports. Just like Willow, it got worse.

That is when I started this post. The next most likely issue I could come up with was the fuel pump to tank seal. It would kind of make sense it got worse when I replaced the hoses. So, I ordered two fuel pump seals. They arrived today.

The first one I put the new seal in was Willow. When I replaced it I really didn’t think it would solve the problem as the old seal looked really good. It hadn’t hardened and looked to be in perfect condition. I replaced it anyway. I also blew air back through the vent pipe that goes to the charcoal canister. It was initially hard to push the air through but got easier quickly. I then went for a 20 mile drive and so far no fuel odor.

I then went to replace the pump seal in Portofino (previous owner installed this fuel pump) and much to my surprise there was no seal installed. I replaced the seal but didn’t take it for a drive as I ran out of time. However, I am relatively confident this problem is solved.

So, two lessons have been “re” learned. 1. Just because a seal looks good, it may not be. Replace it anyway. 2. Don’t assume the last guy did it right.

I will report back when I get more time driving Willow and when I get time to get Portofino out of the shop.

Hello Terry, I also have had this problem especially when the fuel tank is full, where is the vent pipe that goes to the charcoal canister located? appreciate your help, also where is the charcoal canister located.

Thank You
Tony

 

[terryjm1]

Hello Tony,

i disconnected it at the charcoal cannister and blew air back to the tank. You can find the other end back under the fuel fill behind the passenger wheel well. There is a quick disconnect to release it from the line that goes up and into the tank. The charcoal canister is on the passenger side fender well under the hood. It is round with ports on the top. The larger port closest to the fender is where I disconnect it.

It is a black cylinder on non-ael models, like my 96s. . On ael models it looks different but is also in the same general area. It is more oval / rectangular.

I wanted to assure it wasn’t clogged. It may have had a partial obstruction as it got easier to move air after the initial resistance. However, I can’t say that it was a problem.

The first thing I would check is the condition of the 3/4 vent hose that goes from the top of the tank to the fuel fill assembly. Gates 3/4 fuel rated hose is what I used. I purchased it at Advance Auto but I’d bet Oreillys or Napa has it as well. Just be sure it is rated for fuel.

Next, I would try to determine if the vapor is escaping from the pump seal. Those seem, to me, the most likely problems if you are primarily noticing it when it is full.

Hindsight being what it is, when the temperature outside warmed up, vapor was being pushed up through the fuel tank seal. I don’t believe fuel was ever leaking from the tank seal. Alternatively, I do know fuel was leaking from the 3/4 hose when the tank was full. That is what I thought was the whole problem. When I replaced the hose the vapor found the next air opening, in my case the pump seal.

 

[terryjm1]

I took Portofino (one that was missing the pump seal) on a 10 mile drive to fill up the tank. I am happy to report there is no more fuel odor. However, and bear in mind there was only 1-2 gallons of fuel before fill up, when I took the fuel cap off there was a lot of pressure release back through the fill opening. While that tells me the tank is sealed well, it seemed like too much pressure to me. Is it typical for that to happen when low on fuel?

My diesel D1 is the only D1 I have driven a great deal. It has a cap that is vented as there is not a vapor recovery system on it.

I just don’t have a ton of experience with the gas powered D1. I have driven the two discussed in this post a combined total of about 1000 miles and, as you have read above, both had vapor escaping the wrong ways until now.

Willow will get filled up tomorrow for further evaluation.

 

[terryjm1]

Well, Portofino seems fine, no more fuel odor.But, Willow, with a full tank and 60ish miles of driving and the odor has returned. Back to investigation mode. I have a spare tank, I might just swap it in.

 

[_ExpeditionMan]

Well, Portofino seems fine, no more fuel odor.But, Willow, with a full tank and 60ish miles of driving and the odor has returned. Back to investigation mode. I have a spare tank, I might just swap it in.

You could try a smoke test by tying into the evap return line. Have you replaced your gas cap? Another low cost option. Also Land Rover dealers will honor the gas tank replacement if your VIN has never had it done.

 

[terryjm1]

i considered a smoke test but I really didn’t want to buy the “kit” to do it. I decided before I did that I would seal off the system and put in a little pressurized air. It didn’t take long to hear the air escaping and I was able to determine it was somewhere on the filler neck assembly. I took the filler neck out and with the help of some Dawn dish detergent found the leak at a plastic weld just under the filler assembly grommet. I will say, this was a surprise, literally the last area I expected a problem. I will post a photo later . Forgot my phone on this trip to my shop.

So, how do I deal with the leak? Find a used assembly from a non-ael D1, try fitting an ael assembly, which is made of steel, or attempt to repair the leaking one?

I am hesitant to attempt a repair as I don’t see a great way to get epoxy to adhere.

Any ideas on how to move forward with this problem?

FWIW, when I fixed the problem in the other D1 that was missing the tank seal, I noticed pressure escaping when I removed the fuel cap. The other one never did that. I guess it was because it was escaping at the leak in filler assembly. This is what led me to focus on the filler neck combined with some thoughts shared here.

Additionally, I probably should have realized something was off as there was silicon sealer smeared around the lower vapor hose connection. It seems a previous owner tried that and gave up. It wasn’t leaking there.

 

[DarylJ]

Sounds like you might be able to plastic weld it. There are cheap irons for that you can pick up on amazon or similar.

 

[_ExpeditionMan]

i considered a smoke test but I really didn’t want to buy the “kit” to do it. I decided before I did that I would seal off the system and put in a little pressurized air. It didn’t take long to hear the air escaping and I was able to determine it was somewhere on the filler neck assembly. I took the filler neck out and with the help of some Dawn dish detergent found the leak at a plastic weld just under the filler assembly grommet. I will say, this was a surprise, literally the last area I expected a problem. I will post a photo later . Forgot my phone on this trip to my shop.

So, how do I deal with the leak? Find a used assembly from a non-ael D1, try fitting an ael assembly, which is made of steel, or attempt to repair the leaking one?

I am hesitant to attempt a repair as I don’t see a great way to get epoxy to adhere.

Any ideas on how to move forward with this problem?

FWIW, when I fixed the problem in the other D1 that was missing the tank seal, I noticed pressure escaping when I removed the fuel cap. The other one never did that. I guess it was because it was escaping at the leak in filler assembly. This is what led me to focus on the filler neck combined with some thoughts shared here.

Additionally, I probably should have realized something was off as there was silicon sealer smeared around the lower vapor hose connection. It seems a previous owner tried that and gave up. It wasn’t leaking there.

Call around to any shops that deal with gas tanks? I'm sure someone has had this problem on another vehicle. Good find.

 

[terryjm1]

It looks like sealer but is hard plastic.

 

[DarylJ]

Oh that doesn't look like something you can plastic weld. I'm not sure how that all goes together.

 

[terryjm1]

Seeing as it seems to be a very uncommon problem I will probably just track down a used one. Go figure, I had a used one I saved from a parts rig but threw it away when I moved thinking it would never be needed. But… I kept the fuel tank that I truly probably will never need.

 

[DarylJ]

Isn't that just how it always works out?

 

[terryjm1]

I have grown impatient with getting this D1 on the road. While I am waiting to hear back about a used one I inquired about, I am going to see if this repair works. It’s not terrible to R&R the fill assembly.

I didn’t think epoxy would work as I figured the pressure would just force the epoxy off. So, I scuffed up the plastic with a file, covered it with epoxy, and put a hose clamp on it. I’m optimistic the hose clamp with keep the epoxy from being pushed off. It isn’t pretty but I think it may be effective. I’m going to give it the full 24 recommended hours to harden before I reinstall it.

 

[DarylJ]

The pressures involved are inches of water column. I think you have a real good chance of that working for a while if not forever.