gray market????

[singingcamel]

looking at a defender with a series 11a tiltle, states its a title as a series vehicle and has been in the states for at least 2 years.
my biggest worry is the insurance, insure for replacement cost.
also can these things be reposessed or confiscated??sp?
we all know there here and we all know who drives them.

 

[draaronr]

run as fast as you can, and forward me the information for the truck.

 

[singingcamel]

really?

 

[Leslie]

You're right, they're here, and we all know someone with one....

But, a Defender titled as a Series is a felony, and yes, it could be confiscated. Would it probably be? No, as long as you never have any accidents, etc., everything will probably be okay.

But if you're ever in an accident and police and insurance gets involved, and they can't find the VIN matching up with the vehicle's info, then things can start to get ugly.

Lots of people have 'em and never have problems, but I know my luck, I'd be the one busted, and I couldn't afford losing that much.

Just be willing to lose however much you have in it if it gets busted....

 

[Lucasd2002]

Here is some good info.

 

[Leslie]

And also here: http://www.eastcoastrover.com/imports.html

 

[singingcamel]

thanks guys! good info,i knew i could count on you guys:seeya:

 

[JeffM]

Just wait till next year - 25 year rule comes into effect. You'll be able to get an "83" Defender into the country legit

 

[Lucasd2002]

...or look for a series truck or a gray-market RRC...

I just happen to know one for sale...

 

[Onionman]

Just keep in mind the basics here. The individual states have the right to title and license vehicles, but only the federal government can approve importation of vehicles. If someone, by some means, gets a vehicle into the US, some states might catch it, others might not. Even if it does get licensed by a state, it's still an illegal vehicle according the the feds.

 

[p m]

Les - how is upgrading a Series chassis and body panel to newer Defender parts is a felony?

 

[Leslie]

Les - how is upgrading a Series chassis and body panel to newer Defender parts is a felony?

I was referring to swapping an ID of a Series onto a Defender; not to any form of rebuilding/hybrid formats... as in Ron's post on D-90, that's yet to be sorted out in the courts....

 

[p m]

Well, you'll have to swap the VIN plate at some point.

I've been walked through any significant vehicle alteration by a helpful DMV person once. Basically, in order to stay legal, the owner of the vehicle has to document the modification very thoroughly. Starting with the photographs of the original vehicle, with all intermediate photos and receipts, and the final version of the vehicle. BAR will then inspect the vehicle, make sure it is reasonably safe and sound, and give their approval.

Were I to buy a gray market Defender, I'd be looking for the trail of paperwork to go along with it - and I wouldn't buy one without it.

I am still unclear of the kit car status.

Edit: great thread on D-90.

 

[Leslie]

I rebuilt my Series onto a replacement chassis; if I'd left the bulkhead alone, I could've just moved the bulkhead over with the plate left on... since I repaired and galvanized my bulkhead, I had to remove the number plate (held on by screws), then replace it. There's the number stamped on the front spring hanger, that if you want to be accurate, you should copy over.

Defenders, though, have a VIN, not just a serial plate the way a Series does... it's a different critter....

A kit car is a design where you take one vehicle's chassis/running gear, and personally migrate it over to a new "vehicle" with a substantially different body, that comes with paperwork from the kit manufacturer. While it would seem similar to just buy a lot of parts and building a Defender on your own, it's not a kit from a manufacturer.

And, to Onionman's comment: yes, importing a vehicle, and then registering it: yes, the state might be fine with registering it, but the Feds won't be.

FWIW...

 

[Jake]

opcorn:

 

[draaronr]

Well, you'll have to swap the VIN plate at some point.

I've been walked through any significant vehicle alteration by a helpful DMV person once. Basically, in order to stay legal, the owner of the vehicle has to document the modification very thoroughly. Starting with the photographs of the original vehicle, with all intermediate photos and receipts, and the final version of the vehicle. BAR will then inspect the vehicle, make sure it is reasonably safe and sound, and give their approval.

Were I to buy a gray market Defender, I'd be looking for the trail of paperwork to go along with it - and I wouldn't buy one without it.

I am still unclear of the kit car status.

Edit: great thread on D-90.

This is accurate for a diy rebuild. And technically you can get a custom car title. with a bond. same as the hot rod guys do. They don't title it as a 32 ford, because it would be worth $200 to your local insurance guy, yet they have 50 or 100k into it.

 

[jsonova99]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are early gray market 90/110s in this country that are here legally and are titled as such. I believe it was legal to bring just about anything over in the 80s, and there are some here. I've seen a few for sale that supposedly had legit titles, but the asking prices on a lot of them were as much as NAS Defenders which kind of defeats the purpose of the whole thing.

 

[draaronr]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are early gray market 90/110s in this country that are here legally and are titled as such. I believe it was legal to bring just about anything over in the 80s, and there are some here. I've seen a few for sale that supposedly had legit titles, but the asking prices on a lot of them were as much as NAS Defenders which kind of defeats the purpose of the whole thing.

no you are not correct.

 

[Paul Grant]

I have a 1985 Range Rover that was brought in from Canada by way of France back in 1985. It was Federalized and is completely legal here in the US. It wasn't until 1986 when, under pressure from the likes of Mercedes, BMW, Ferrari, Porsche and the insurance companies that the laws were revised and the grey market was essentially shut down. Prior to that, there were a number of specialists bringing in all kinds of exotic cars. Typically, they were brought in by conversion specialists who performed the necessary changes on the car to bring it to EPA and DOT codes.

My 1985 Range Rover had the pulsair injection along with carburation. There was only one catalytic converter where the center muffler would normally go. It was able to pass inspection first in VT where it was initially registered and eventually here in CT where is was registered for the last ten years or so.

Plenty of Boxers, 930 Turbos and 500 SL's were brought into the US in the early 1980's. I knew of many people who had grey market cars back in those days. I even owned a grey market Honda Prelude back in 1983. It was originally from Europe and have oddities like ALB (Honda's version of ABS) and a rear window wiper. The car was bought from a Mazda dealer in Northern NJ who specialized in grey market cars.

So, I wouldn't be surprised to find some older 110's and 90's that were brought in legally back in 1983-85. The only thing is that the number is likely to be very small because the cars and trucks that generated the most interest were the top dollar vehicles.

Who here remembers Europa Motors from New Mexico. They were Federalizing G-Wagens throughout the '80's and '90's with MB's blessing. It wasn't until MB decided they needed to bring the G-Wagen over for themselves to stem all the Range Rovers sales that Europa faded out of the picture.

The grey market was alive and well in the early 1980's inabling many automobile afficianados the opportunity to own cars that, through ordinary channels, simply weren't available. Legistlation in 1986 change the entire market making it much more difficult and down right risky to deal in such cars.

 

[antichrist]

Just be willing to lose however much you have in it if it gets busted....

And potentially your house if you cause an accident and the other folks sue you. It's a sure bet your insuarance co will walk away from you.

Up until sometime in the 80's anyone could bring in a car and federalize it and have a legit grey market car. Then the laws were changed that only a few specialist firms could do it, and now it would probably be cheaper to just buy a used defender.