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Kyle
Guest
Dont know if Greg registered for this board again but it sems like he had a rough time in Moab....Makes me reflect on all the dirt road safari threads.. 
K
Kyle
Guest
Uh, ow, that hurt....
Hey, at least he went....... I'm still trying to put the Series back together.....
-L
Hey, at least he went....... I'm still trying to put the Series back together.....
-L
lol........................that sucks! sounds like all of that was just waiting to happen...to bad it didnt happen when you pulled out of your driveway...
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Krawler
Guest
I just read the second post. OUCH. I have a TT diff in my garage at home and am ordering the Detroit for my rear diff this month. I am definetely considering holding off on that particular install until I have put in the HD axles. No sense in breaking a perfectly good set of 'spare' axles.
Sorry for the delayed response. Been having problems getting logged in.
Anyway, yes it was a rough trip. Made all the worse by the fact that it could have probably been avoided by using a little better judgement on my part.
Not sure what the reference to Uwharrie was about though?
Anyway, yes it was a rough trip. Made all the worse by the fact that it could have probably been avoided by using a little better judgement on my part.
Not sure what the reference to Uwharrie was about though?
Sorry to hear about the hassles Greg. I think if you have a rig like yours and try to push your/vehicles abilities, it is pretty hard to avoid at least one trip like that.
I had a similar DAY at the end of the season last year. Rear DS, Rear trailing link, rear differential, safety brake, blown bead, dead battery...in one day. I learned a valuable lesson (testosterone/adrenaline lesson #1).
The accelerator is something to be very careful with (as slow as possible and as fast as necessary) and the bump technique is your friend.
Traction is an issue in Moab. Anyone attempting dry slickrock with lockers and standard axles is flirting with disaster, just a bit too much accelerator is almost guaranteed to bust an axle and if you are pressing way to hard more can go with.
On another note. I have done some pretty tough trails in Moab open diff (including poison spider and golden spike, don't know the mentioned obstacle though), never busted a thing, but when far from home I am also pretty cautious.
If in doubt, go with Bill Burke, usually he will help you avoid this kind of disaster with awesome spotting (just listen, watch and follow).
Brian
I had a similar DAY at the end of the season last year. Rear DS, Rear trailing link, rear differential, safety brake, blown bead, dead battery...in one day. I learned a valuable lesson (testosterone/adrenaline lesson #1).
The accelerator is something to be very careful with (as slow as possible and as fast as necessary) and the bump technique is your friend.
Traction is an issue in Moab. Anyone attempting dry slickrock with lockers and standard axles is flirting with disaster, just a bit too much accelerator is almost guaranteed to bust an axle and if you are pressing way to hard more can go with.
On another note. I have done some pretty tough trails in Moab open diff (including poison spider and golden spike, don't know the mentioned obstacle though), never busted a thing, but when far from home I am also pretty cautious.
If in doubt, go with Bill Burke, usually he will help you avoid this kind of disaster with awesome spotting (just listen, watch and follow).
Brian
Thanks Brian. I'm in the process of working with CV Unlimited in GA to see if he can come up with some HD front axle parts (shafts, CV's, etc) since there are none on the market that I know of. I was asking alot of my front end to pull me around, but at that time, I really didn't have a choice, as I was really trying to limit how much stress I put on Jim Cirbus' rig by having to be strapped by him.
As far as the rear, I'm running the HD parts available. Of course, I know that the 4.75 gears are weaker than the 4.1's, but I didn't expect them to let go quite so soon.
Anyway, lessons were learned. I now know that if I want to continue to use my rig the way I like to (trying different lines in lieu of taking the bypasses, etc., I'm going to have to go to larger axle assemblies. Sounds like a good winter project, huh?
As far as the rear, I'm running the HD parts available. Of course, I know that the 4.75 gears are weaker than the 4.1's, but I didn't expect them to let go quite so soon.
Anyway, lessons were learned. I now know that if I want to continue to use my rig the way I like to (trying different lines in lieu of taking the bypasses, etc., I'm going to have to go to larger axle assemblies. Sounds like a good winter project, huh?
Greg,
I think if you look at it you can really trace it back to gears & tires. The 4.75 gears really are that weak. I rarely hear about someone not breaking them. Further, aren't you running a pretty large tire? Once you blew your rear out, your front was just way overstressed. No surprise you blew out the U-joint.
I hate to add to the pain, but the truth is that I have seen many many Rovers do these same trails with little or no mechanical problems. Moab seems to have this rep of being hard on drivetrain parts that I think is more myth than anything. Ostacles there are mostly straightforward and in two categories: Those you will make and those you won't. The key is determining which is which or risk breakage or body damage.
That being said, a relatively stock Rover with 2" lift, tires, & traction can clear almost any trail there except Upper Helldorrado.
Good luck next time!
I think if you look at it you can really trace it back to gears & tires. The 4.75 gears really are that weak. I rarely hear about someone not breaking them. Further, aren't you running a pretty large tire? Once you blew your rear out, your front was just way overstressed. No surprise you blew out the U-joint.
I hate to add to the pain, but the truth is that I have seen many many Rovers do these same trails with little or no mechanical problems. Moab seems to have this rep of being hard on drivetrain parts that I think is more myth than anything. Ostacles there are mostly straightforward and in two categories: Those you will make and those you won't. The key is determining which is which or risk breakage or body damage.
That being said, a relatively stock Rover with 2" lift, tires, & traction can clear almost any trail there except Upper Helldorrado.
Good luck next time!
K
Kyle
Guest
There you have it Curtis and this was somewhat the conversation (debate) Greg and I had some time ago when he was telling me that he was running ahrd trails. Now he heads to Moab 1 time and most of his shit comes back in a bushell basket in the back of the truck. Then its ofcourse the lines and such and the truck needs to be upgraded more and more to overcome. Well , that is exactly what gives these trails their reps. The same goes for the Rubicon. "Poison , spike , bar" is a far easier trail in a 2" lifted truck then it is in a monster because you have more forgiveness from it. I would say a very valuable lesson has been learned And it had nothing to do with HD parts ..................
And it had nothing to do with HD parts .................. I think a great example is Axel's rig. He has some nice HD stuff on it, but the springs have sagged to about 1" lift, and the tires look a little small. Still, his Disco truggies up anything anyone elses does but with half the drama. Same with Arneys tractor. Not to insult Sean or Axel, but their rigs do not look all that "special". You get them on the trail though and they just flat-out work.
Well, here we go again. I don't think I've ever been on here touting that I have run the "hard"trails. Up until Moab, I had only been to some places in VA, and trails here in NC. Out here, I could get away with my setup because of the terrain.
I didn't go to Moab just to run every easy obstacle so I could say "I ran XXX trail". I went to see what I and my rig could or couldn't do. And I found out. Sure, I could have taken a relatively stock rig and completed the trails, but so what? What fun is in taking all of the easy "anyone can do them" lines? To me, there's no fun in that at all, unless I'm sightseeing.
And I know that you'll say "But Greg, if you didn't have those tires, lift, etc., you wouldn't have broken". You're right, but that same lift, tire size, etc. allow me access to routes that some others can't get to simply because of clearance.
I'm not building my rig so I can run the lesser of the routes. I like to be challenged and to push my/my vehicle's limits. If that's not your cup of tea, then so be it. Neither one of us are right or wrong.
By taking this trip, I found out first hand that there are some weaknesses in my setup. My choices are to change the way I use my vehicle, or improve it. I'm choosing the later. If that means going away from Rover parts, I'm fine with that.
As far as the gears, I was told that they should be good for up to a 35" tire. My current tires are 34.5", so I felt that I was safe. Guess not.
Anyway, I'm not here to try and justify my rig to everyone. It's the way it is because that's how I want it. And I'll pay the price for having it that way. Hopefully I'll eventually get it dialed in so I won't have repeat episodes like this recent trip.
I didn't go to Moab just to run every easy obstacle so I could say "I ran XXX trail". I went to see what I and my rig could or couldn't do. And I found out. Sure, I could have taken a relatively stock rig and completed the trails, but so what? What fun is in taking all of the easy "anyone can do them" lines? To me, there's no fun in that at all, unless I'm sightseeing.
And I know that you'll say "But Greg, if you didn't have those tires, lift, etc., you wouldn't have broken". You're right, but that same lift, tire size, etc. allow me access to routes that some others can't get to simply because of clearance.
I'm not building my rig so I can run the lesser of the routes. I like to be challenged and to push my/my vehicle's limits. If that's not your cup of tea, then so be it. Neither one of us are right or wrong.
By taking this trip, I found out first hand that there are some weaknesses in my setup. My choices are to change the way I use my vehicle, or improve it. I'm choosing the later. If that means going away from Rover parts, I'm fine with that.
As far as the gears, I was told that they should be good for up to a 35" tire. My current tires are 34.5", so I felt that I was safe. Guess not.
Anyway, I'm not here to try and justify my rig to everyone. It's the way it is because that's how I want it. And I'll pay the price for having it that way. Hopefully I'll eventually get it dialed in so I won't have repeat episodes like this recent trip.
K
Kyle
Guest
"What fun is in taking all of the easy "anyone can do them" lines? To me, there's no fun in that at all, unless I'm sightseeing."
How many trails did you complete in Moab to come to this conclusion ? Also , what did you end up doing for the remainder of your trip there ?
You again start into how its the trucks fault and it needs more and more parts to complete these things. I cant even count how many Rovers have been through those trails including mine. Do you think you are the only one to try a "Different" line out of all those trucks ?
I bring the conversations up that we have had in the past because it seems the first time you actually did go run something difficult , most of your truck came back in a bushel basket riding in the back. Not trying to get you to justify. Just making the point that couldnt get made until you actually went and did something.
Now I REALLY want to get into some talk about these lines that you run that no one else seems to do and therefore keep their truck in tact. Which lines are these exactly ? Around the right side of rock pile ? The big ass rock to the left of the golden crack that is considered a "Bypass" I believe ? The line to the far right of Rocker knocker ? Or was it the one to the far left ? I know a few of them are a bitch so lets talk about those lines...
How many trails did you complete in Moab to come to this conclusion ? Also , what did you end up doing for the remainder of your trip there ?
You again start into how its the trucks fault and it needs more and more parts to complete these things. I cant even count how many Rovers have been through those trails including mine. Do you think you are the only one to try a "Different" line out of all those trucks ?
I bring the conversations up that we have had in the past because it seems the first time you actually did go run something difficult , most of your truck came back in a bushel basket riding in the back. Not trying to get you to justify. Just making the point that couldnt get made until you actually went and did something.
Now I REALLY want to get into some talk about these lines that you run that no one else seems to do and therefore keep their truck in tact. Which lines are these exactly ? Around the right side of rock pile ? The big ass rock to the left of the golden crack that is considered a "Bypass" I believe ? The line to the far right of Rocker knocker ? Or was it the one to the far left ? I know a few of them are a bitch so lets talk about those lines...
How many trails did you complete in Moab to come to this conclusion ? Also , what did you end up doing for the remainder of your trip there ?
See the link that started this thread. I stated the number of trails I ran, although I don't understand the relevance at this point of the discussion.
You again start into how its the trucks fault and it needs more and more parts to complete these things. I cant even count how many Rovers have been through those trails including mine. Do you think you are the only one to try a "Different" line out of all those trucks ?
Never said I was the only one taking these lines. I said that I typically don't take the easy or common routes (bypasses, etc.). I prefer the challenge of the harder lines. There were plenty of tires tracks on the lines I took. But on the harder ones (especially the obstacle that I think caused my damage) there's no way it would have been done in a 2" lifted Disco w/ 32" tires. It just wouldn't have the clearance required to get up on the face.
I bring the conversations up that we have had in the past because it seems the first time you actually did go run something difficult , most of your truck came back in a bushel basket riding in the back. Not trying to get you to justify. Just making the point that couldnt get made until you actually went and did something.
Prety bold statement from someone that's never wheeled with meand whose knowledge of my trail running is based on what you've seen posted on the net. Moab isn't the only place I've wheeled that is considered "hard". But, according to you, even Moab isn't hard.
Now I REALLY want to get into some talk about these lines that you run that no one else seems to do and therefore keep their truck in tact. Which lines are these exactly ? Around the right side of rock pile ? The big ass rock to the left of the golden crack that is considered a "Bypass" I believe ? The line to the far right of Rocker knocker ? Or was it the one to the far left ? I know a few of them are a bitch so lets talk about those lines...
Well, unfortunately I haven't been enough to know them by name, so I'm at a disadvantage on this one. And again, I've never stated that noone else is running the lines I take. However, it's usually the more modified rigs, not the "nearly stock" ones that have been brought up in this discussion.
One thing I'm not really clear on is the point of this thread? Other than to show that I broke, I don't see any point. Poor choice of equipment, wrong setup, crappy driving skills?
Oh, I got it. Taking the wrong line!
See the link that started this thread. I stated the number of trails I ran, although I don't understand the relevance at this point of the discussion.
You again start into how its the trucks fault and it needs more and more parts to complete these things. I cant even count how many Rovers have been through those trails including mine. Do you think you are the only one to try a "Different" line out of all those trucks ?
Never said I was the only one taking these lines. I said that I typically don't take the easy or common routes (bypasses, etc.). I prefer the challenge of the harder lines. There were plenty of tires tracks on the lines I took. But on the harder ones (especially the obstacle that I think caused my damage) there's no way it would have been done in a 2" lifted Disco w/ 32" tires. It just wouldn't have the clearance required to get up on the face.
I bring the conversations up that we have had in the past because it seems the first time you actually did go run something difficult , most of your truck came back in a bushel basket riding in the back. Not trying to get you to justify. Just making the point that couldnt get made until you actually went and did something.
Prety bold statement from someone that's never wheeled with meand whose knowledge of my trail running is based on what you've seen posted on the net. Moab isn't the only place I've wheeled that is considered "hard". But, according to you, even Moab isn't hard.
Now I REALLY want to get into some talk about these lines that you run that no one else seems to do and therefore keep their truck in tact. Which lines are these exactly ? Around the right side of rock pile ? The big ass rock to the left of the golden crack that is considered a "Bypass" I believe ? The line to the far right of Rocker knocker ? Or was it the one to the far left ? I know a few of them are a bitch so lets talk about those lines...
Well, unfortunately I haven't been enough to know them by name, so I'm at a disadvantage on this one. And again, I've never stated that noone else is running the lines I take. However, it's usually the more modified rigs, not the "nearly stock" ones that have been brought up in this discussion.
One thing I'm not really clear on is the point of this thread? Other than to show that I broke, I don't see any point. Poor choice of equipment, wrong setup, crappy driving skills?
Oh, I got it. Taking the wrong line!
S
Snwbord24
Guest
Hey Greg, if you had some fun, bettered your driving skills and know what to improve on your rig then it doesn't really matter IMO. It sounds like you did all 3 to me.