Half shafts for rear Detroit Locker?

[AndrewClarke]

I recently had some differential trouble and ended up putting a Detroit locker in the diff of my truck. That, along with the other fixes I had to make, wiped me out financially for the time being and I still have my stock axles.

I've heard conflicting reports about how bad this is. Some people say that I'll break my half shafts and this is very bad with a Detroit because for some reason it will break the Detroit locker. Other people say I'll break my half shafts but they've never heard of this damaging the locker, and in fact have done it themselves and just replaced their axles and went on their merry way.

Now, I plan to get a set of Great Basin HD half shafts as soon as I can afford them, but how much immediate danger am I in in the meantime? In other words, should I just plan on doing NO offroading until I get them in, just not do anything insane, or is the whole danger overblown or what? I have a set of spare axles sitting in the back of my truck so if all I do is break the ones I have I can fairly easily swap them out on the truck. I just don't want to destroy my brand new Detroit locker or any other components in the meantime!

Thanks for all experiences,
- Andrew.

 

[Blueboy]

Andrew,

While I use ARB lockers, I can relate some information to you on the Detroit from past posts on the site.

There have been cases where if you break a shaft, there has been damage to the diff.. Shafts can break under certain circumstances.

Now not knowing what type of off-highway driving you're doing, having a locker like a Detroit will enable you to run past trails much easier than with a stock open diff.. So, there should be no problem where you've been and harder with your stock shafts.

Spinning and then catching breaks shafts. Get used to your new founded traction before tackling the harder stuff.


Jaime

 

[Mike_Rupp]

My recommendation is to not do any off-roading without the HD axles. This topic has been discussed ad nauseum. The stock axles can snap like a toothpick with moderate use.

I was riding shotgun when my brother snapped his stock axle. This wasn't a hopping situation or spinning tires situation. He was merely going up a ledge and one tire came off the ground. Snap! Almost all of the weight of the Disco was concentrated on the one tire. The Detroit grenaded as well.

I've read conflicting reports as well. People brag about how they flogged their truck for a year with the Detroit and no problems. I find it hard to believe when I saw how easy it was to break the axle.

 

[LostInBoston]

FWIW
i had a detroit with stock axles and 33' AT's for over a year and wheeled with it inthe pine barrens without taking it easy. Of course i may have been lucky, but if you 're careful you should be fine.
I did switch to HD shafts eventually.

 

[draaronr]

It's a gamble, you can find just as many people on either side, just replace them when you can. Wheel sensibly and most likely you will be fine, but know there is a chance at ruining your locker. I would wheel it if it were mine, I just wouldn't try to conquer moab

 

[JR Ewing III]

FWIW

I wouldn't off-road at all. It doesn't sound like the money tree in your backyard is blooming If it were my rig I'd play it safe. Detroits aren't cheap to me. You don't want to take a chance because if you end up damaging your Detroit you'll ask yourself why you just didn't wait for the HD axles.

 

[Lutzgaterr]

I have to agree with draaronr on that. Both sides of the issue are equally balanced.
Some have flat terrain, some have mountainous terrain, some have strained stock axles and others have solid stock axles.
You won?t really know unless you have your stock axles examined by a pro for signs of stress or twisting, which is what they should do BTW, flex.
So wheel and take the chance of replacing the Detroit, or not, and of course you are still taking the chance of replacing the Detroit. I think it comes down to the current condition of the stock axles that will determine your borrowed time.

 

[Mike_Rupp]

Like I knew would happen, Lostinboston chimed in saying he offroaded for a year with a Detroit with 33s and stock axles and he didn't take it easy. I'd love to see some pictures of this.

The real question is, Andrew, whose advice will you take?

If you take lostinboston's advice, I will love to read with sadistic pleasure when you post a thread like one of these:

How do I remove a broken axle from my diff?
Can you repair a broken Detroit?

"You won?t really know unless you have your stock axles examined by a pro for signs of stress or twisting, which is what they should do BTW, flex." Huh? The stock axles will not flex, they will twist to the point where they will snap. It's just a matter of time. Lutzgaterr, do you have a Detroit?

 

[Robbie]

again, i agree with Mike. why risk it? hd shafts are only about $400. you can find them used for $100-$200. You can sell your current shafts for ~$100. if you really are planning on wheeling it, why not just pony up the extra couple hundred? $200 for shafts vs $800+ for a broken detroit/install and new shafts?

 

[stansell]

I am waiting to install the trutrack/detroit locker combo on my DII until I have the HD axels. Lockers are great, but risking the loss of a lot of bucks doesn't make a lot of sense when the rover is fun to play with "stock". Since you already have the locker installed, I agree with Robbie, throw down the cash for the HD's, for peace of minds sake.

Robbie, I have looked at GBR for HD prices. Do you know of any other good dealers, cause I have not found any in the $200-400 price range?

 

[Robbie]

have not used these guys personally yet myself, but have been hearing pretty good things about them: http://www.rovertracks.com/

they have rear hd axle sets for steel wheels at $390 and alloy for $440.

oh, and didn't mean you can find axles for $200 (except maybe used), just meant after selling off some stuff (like old axles) you can be out of pocket for a rather small sum.

 

[stansell]

Robbie, thanks for the info. One question, which is mostly on topic, and only slightly uncovers my vast lack of knowlege: the HD axles advertised say specifically they are for the D1. Are the D1 and D2 axles the same? Makes sense if they are, since D2's have the same transfer boxes and differentials as the D1. Thanks.
Rob

 

[Robbie]

i believe they are different actually. DI's are fully floating axles. I don't think DII's are. But I have no idea what that means

(something to do with being able to remove the shafts in situ...?)

 

[kln]

The stock axles can snap like a toothpick with moderate use.

I disagree. They're fairly strong. I've always felt there must have been a fault in your brother's half-shaft.

If I remember correctly, there havn't been a lot of people who have experienced this problem but a number have wheeled successfully for an extended period with stock shafts and the locker. You have to understand the limitation and wheel accordingly.

 

[Ho]

so, let's say stock shafts are strong enough to be with lockers. then for how long should one hang on to the stock shafts? would you eventually change out to HD shafts?

disco1 and disco2 shafts are completely different.

 

[curtis]

so, let's say stock shafts are strong enough to be with lockers. then for how long should one hang on to the stock shafts?

LOL - I would guess until he could afford them or has a trip ruined because one became two

I know of people who have wheeled and wheeled hard on stock shafts and lockers all over Utah. I know of others who have spit out HD shafts almost as quick as they went in. Still, for the 15 minutes it takes to install the HD's plus the $500-$600 (GBR) it is just piece of mind.

BTW Ho - I am getting close again

 

[marc olivares]

BTW Ho - I am getting close again

Hmmm, where have i heard that before?


3 years, detroit rear, stock shafts, tons and tons wheelin, mostly Moab, no breaks!
in fact of all the guys i wheel with, all have locking devices and only 2 have MD axles.

 

[AndrewClarke]

I'm getting 'em.

*(#&%)(* I just had this long, well-reasoned response written up and then Discoweb went black hole on me and ate my post. OK, here I go again (saving first just in case).

First of all, thanks everyone for your opinions and experiences. My main concern wasn't so much "am I going to break an axle" as when/if I break an axle, am I likely to wreck my Detroit? The answer seems to be "yes" to that, as there are several here who've had that experience. Unfortunately I tend to be quite hard on equipment, even though I try not to be so I don't think it would be wise for me to tempt fate by off-roading without the axles.

Here's a little history for those of you who don't know. I broke my front and rear stock diffs and ring & pinion gears, so I had to replace all that stuff anyway. So I didn't just decide "hey I want lockers to be cool and the chicks will dig me but I'm too much of a cheapskate to get axles and do it right". I went with an ARB front and Detroit rear with stock gearing. I went with stock gears since I have a manual transmission and the tall gearing with my 235/85 tires isn't so big of a deal to me, and GBR was out of stock on 4.11 gears anyway. I would have liked 3.8 gears but I guess they're not available any more. Due to other circumstances, the entire job ended up costing a lot of money, not leaving me for anything beyond the essentials to get my truck on the road again. For instance, I haven't hooked up my ARB in the front either so it's still basically just an open diff.

I am planning on going to Rover Rendezvous here in California at the end of the month and was basically trying to figure out if I could safely do that with stock axles. I've decided the answer is "no" (with my level of risk tolerance). Since I'm 100% planning on getting HD axles anyway, why not get them now and be a good consumer and put them on my credit card, rather than waiting until I have to get a new Detroit locker too.

- Andrew.

 

[Ho]

andrew, see you in big bear.

curtis,
"getting close again..." we shall see.

 

[D Chapman]

For those of you running stock axles and lockers, all I can say is you have a golden spoon stuck up your rear. I snaped my first rear axle and popped the locker weeks after installing my 255/85's. Light throttle and steep, rocky hill... Threw in a spare axle and new locker (warrenty) and snapped the other side a week later. Slid in some Rovertracks HD's and started crunching the front end CV's/axles. I would like to see a Discovery run a "black rated" trail at Paragon with stock shafts and 265/75's or bigger.

If you look at other trucks, the rover axles are very small. By being a full floater they seem to hold up well with a smaller tire. In a lightly loaded Defender you may get by, but when you add a 100lb MT tire/wheel to the hub on top of the overall weight of a disco, the stock shafts are nothing to talk about. By adding a set of $400-600.00 axles will only save you some cash in the long run.

In a D2 I would not even chance it. Changing out the axles is a PITA, and almost impossable to do on the trail (not saying it can't be done).