jim-00-4.6 said:
Projectors don't look so good in a bright room, and I don't have good blackout curtains here. In my old place in LA I could use it during the day without much trouble, not so much here.
HDTV'S on Black Friday
- Thread starter no694terry
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Projectors don't look so good in a bright room, and I don't have good blackout curtains here. In my old place in LA I could use it during the day without much trouble, not so much here.
offrovn said:
That depends entirely on what you are going to pay for it.
It's a decent LCD display. As long as it's priced accordingly and you don't live under the impression that you are going to have the best thing available, it's okay. In this price range, it's an all out brawl among the manufacturers. Nobody can throw something out there without heavy compromises.
All of the numbers associated with that television are heavily inflated, however, and it uses quite a bit of voodoo to achieve the numbers that it actually does. That means it's not going to hit the standard as well as others once it's calibrated.
In this price range, the object is to get something with compromises that aren't going to be as big a deal in your normal use. The faults you will see with this display are the same faults you will see with every other LCD, but amplified.
Vizio lives in this price range. They are always a contender here. If your wife really wants it and isn't going to be very happy with anything else, I'd say it's not worth fighting over.
As for refresh rate, it's important, but not for the reasons people might think. It all comes down to the frame rate of the recorded material and how it's altered to be displayed. 120hz in an LCD will display everything you ever wanted. What they are trying to do is hit a balanced ratio of frames. In an LCD, it's a big deal.
Watch out, though. When they use voodoo to accomplish this, still scenes can look entirely static, like a photograph, and unwanted visual issues will be present. As an example, some of these effects can make Lord of the Rings look like a soap opera!
The way refresh rates are handled can make or break a display.
I've seen incredibly expensive displays that are total dog-shit because of this nonsense. Most of that voodoo has to be turned off for things to work properly, and when you do that, you unearth the realities of what you have purchased.
Voodoo=Anything that a computer does, beyond what is required to put the standardized signal on the screen, to fuck with what you see. It also refers to any audio-visual product that is incredibly expensive and dubiously effective.
Examples include things like "Dynamic Super-Movie Mode", "Triple Black Attack", "10,000,000,000,000,000,000:1 Dynamic Contrast Ratio", "1,000,000hz Technology", "Ball-Cupping Nanny Fuck the Picture Mode", and things of that nature.
I haven't viewed that model personally, and with the useless and inflated specifications available, I can't tell much about it on the net. I don't have any magazines that have reviewed it, and there is only one review that's worth a shit on the net, but it's not for that model, and it's not from what I consider to be a reliable source. It's probably too late to check it out if you are trying to nail some black Friday deal.
There is what's best, and then there is what you can live with.
Can you live with your wife if you don't buy that Vizio?:rofl:
Cheers,
Kennith
az_max said:
It's a fragile big-ass piece of flat display technology. That's the problem. Things can warp or break. The box doesn't support the actual screen, and the screen isn't designed to support itself.
It's probably fine, though. Plenty of yuppies stuff them in the back seat of their cars or flat in the back of minivans.
Cheers,
Kennith
jim-00-4.6 said:
Go ahead, come clean. To be fair, that NEC isn't exactly a consumer oriented electronic device.
The Japanese huddled together for quite some time. Re-badging was, and still is common in those markets. They had a long way to climb in professional markets. Sometimes, it's not about faking a product, however. Sometimes, it's about getting your name in the studio, so long as it's on a good product. Still other times, the companies have worked together to develop the device. Panasonic doesn't cheat.
Sony are cheating bastards. I wouldn't piss on them to put out a fire. You never know who the fuck made something when Sony is stamped on the front of the product. I also don't like their constant and eventually successful attempts to control the entire industry surrounding the pictures you see on your television.
I've got a PS2 and a PS3, a flash drive, and a radio I bought from a bamboo shack somewhere. That's all I've got from Sony now. The PS3 is very, very nice. It was nicer when Sony actually made it, however, and it had a hardware emulator for PS2 games. Of course, they went to China and a software emulator, and then they took it out completely. Those fuckers.
Still, the PS3 is a shockingly un-Sony-like product. It is very good.
Cheers,
Kennith
depends on the projector and the screen surface.knewsom said:
maybe it's time for a new one, after all.
you're not shooting that on a wall, are you?
jim-00-4.6 said:
At this moment, unfortunately, I am - I bought a new screen for it when we moved and had it shipped to the new address. I sold the old one before we left. Because of the way my apt. is built, I could really only mount it in ONE place - and that was just a little bit too far back to be able to use my screen - the image overlaps it by four inches or so on either side, even when I use the optics as best as I can to make it fit.
...even if I had a very pricey screen and a super-bright projector, it wouldn't look great during the daytime - they ALWAYS look better in the dark, which is how I like to watch movies anyways. I've watched some other projectors with very powerful lamps, and sometimes it was TOO bright. I'm quite happy with what I've got, and when I finally upgrade to a 1080P projector, it'll probably be one with similar specs to what I've got.
Besides, if I want to watch something during daylight hours, I can just use my 27" iMac, it has a GORGEOUS display.
you're right, that NEC wasn't ever intended to be consumer electronics.kennith said:
Think they're still pissed about losing the Betamax/VHS thing?
1 of those will be arriving here in about a month...
Say what you will about Sony, but if I'm buying a professional video camera, Sony is high on my list.
Really high.
And it's a long drop to the next.
Well, Ikegami. But I haven't used an Ike since the HL-95, and that's been a while...
Sony D-30 was/is a solid camera, as is the D-50.
Of course, you'll need some proper glass, and the only lenses I'd consider would be Canon or Fuji.
And Betamax was better quality than VHS.
I knew it, you knew it, Sony & JVC knew it.
Sony screwed the pooch on record time and price.
JVC hit what consumers were looking for; reasonable quality at a reasonable price.
Hell, at that time, "reasonable" was pretty wide open, considering pro formats were 1" type C or 3/4" for ENG.
hard to believe my laptop isn't much bigger than a 60-minute 3/4" cassette.
I actually have 1" masters of wedding videos I did for friends back in the day.
Of course, the VHS team bit the big one on MII vs. Beta SP.
Sony OWNED the Beta SP market, unsurprisingly.
Today, if I'm buying a Beta deck, there's only 2 Sony lines I'd consider, BVW for studio use,or PVW if I'm mostly looking at playback or light editing. The UVWs are fucking garbage. Plastic pieces of shit.
bummer.knewsom said:
after you're at the end of the lens, you might be able to squish it with the electronics - depends on the projector. Not my favorite method, in fact, at the BOTTOM of my list, but people do it all the time.
Actually, a little bit of light in the room makes it look better than absolute darkness other than the screen.
Try a nightlight or 2 here and there, obviously not hitting the screen surface.
No such thing as "too bright".
What you're seeing is improperly set up.
contrast at 80 bajillion to 1 is nice for powerpoint, which is what many of the little projectors are for.
Unfortunately, not all projectors can be properly set up for actual, moving images that include human flesh tones.
Amazing what a difference it makes when you have the equipment and skill to properly configure a display device.
But, like many other things, "10,000:1 Contrast Ratio" seems Really Cool!
Of course, as long as there's retards like Tim Burton, whose idea of drama is darkness, you'll need that 10,000:1 ratio.
well its up and running, looks great, almost 3D its so clear. too bad hardly any hd programing is 1080p. most i see is 1080i, and the Pens game is coming in at 720p.
jim-00-4.6 said:
Consumer oriented or not, your display does kick ass. Paying for it must have hurt, though. My own A/V system would have an astronomical retail value, but I have my ways of getting things cheap.
Professional video cameras are a different ballgame. Sony is at their best in that arena. You can't cheap out and pass stenciled crap around.
Beta can be as better as it wants. That still doesn't eliminate my problems with those efforts. Right now, Sony has everything, and that has been their goal since Beta.
Sony owns your A/V system now, no matter what you stick in it.
They have monopolized storage, transmission, reception, and reproduction. It doesn't matter where your data came from, it has to pass through Sony's standards all the way from recording to reproduction.
That's fucking bullshit, and I feel that it breaks the rules, even if it technically doesn't.
Cheers,
Kennith
Kennith,
No the wife does not need to have the vizio, that is just what she has been looking at. I'm looking for suggestions, we are looking at Panasonics as well. We don't watch alot of TV but the kids will have the xbox360 hooked to the tv but rarely play it as they prefer the PS3 on their tv, which is a Toshiba LCD. So I may consider a Panasonic plasma in 1080P. Any suggestions on those?
Thanks for the help you're a wealth of knowledge :applause:
No the wife does not need to have the vizio, that is just what she has been looking at. I'm looking for suggestions, we are looking at Panasonics as well. We don't watch alot of TV but the kids will have the xbox360 hooked to the tv but rarely play it as they prefer the PS3 on their tv, which is a Toshiba LCD. So I may consider a Panasonic plasma in 1080P. Any suggestions on those?
Thanks for the help you're a wealth of knowledge :applause:
offrovn said:
Just make sure to keep certain video games off the plasma unless they are played in moderation. Plasma's arch enemy is Guitar Hero. Avoid that like the plague. Otherwise, gaming isn't a problem. If I play Final Fantasy for an hour or so, it's not a problem at all with a newer plasma. Guitar Hero, however, is Satan.
Panasonic plasma displays are pretty much the cat's ass since the demise of the Kuro. Check this out:
http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-electronics/shop/Televisions/All-VIERA-Flat-Panel-HDTVs/model.TC-P50G25.O_11002_7000000000000005702#tabsection
Not fucking bad. This will blow the pants off any LCD on the market, and it's wonderfully priced.
Their top shelf is incredibly high, and the series that mine's from is from the top shelf. That said, the shelf is gathering a bit of dust, and it's about to be refilled. You can't get the equivalent for less than 4,500 bucks. This is the sort of quality that Mr. NEC up there is on about.
Of course, I cheated and got mine for 1,200.
Meanwhile, the other shelves have been building up some serious steam.
Short of the displays that offer that 3D nonsense, this is your best bet. There are benefits to the 3D displays aside from that bullshit capability, though. Some of the components are better, and they have superior capabilities, but you have to pay for that 3D shit. If you have a PS3, you now have 3D capability, so, if you want it, you can have it. Be aware, however, that this 3D technology is over 15 years old and hasn't evolved. It's going to take a few years to get it where it needs to be.
At this price, this is currently the best television available, and it's their latest model.
If you want a Plasma, go for it.
Don't bother about that fancy NEC or stuff like mine. Used, they are selling for far more than the one I linked. It's another ballgame, and unless you have guile like me, you aren't going to get one cheap. I once walked into a retail store and bought a new 2,000 dollar voltage regulator for 207 bucks. I don't fuck around.
The one I linked is wonderful. There are others out there, but Panasonic support is completely unrivaled, and their plasma displays are top notch. A close second is Toshiba, but at the price I showed you direct from Panasonic... Why not?
Just stay the fuck away from Guitar Hero, and don't use it as a computer monitor.
Cheers,
Kennith
If you buy a good television like that one, immediately order this:
http://www.videoessentials.com/DVE_HDBasics.php
It's an idiot-proof way to calibrate your display, even if you can't spell calibrate. As soon as you take that thing out of the box, run it for at least 12 hours on something very colorful, like a Pixar movie zoomed to take up the entire screen, preferably 24 hours, and then calibrate it.
You will need cables, naturally. Here is your go-to source:
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/
Their HDMI cables can be used to beat someone to death, and are the only cables that actually bother to adhere to a concrete standard. They are also far cheaper than what you will find in a store. If you buy any other cable, break a 2X4 over your head in punishment.
Get this stuff ahead of time so you can have fun with the display as soon as possible. I'm a guy. I know the nearly irresistible urge to fuck with something new.
Your PS3 is a great Blu-Ray player. If you don't have a foundation cracking carefully calibrated system and room, it's only flaw will be irrelevant. It won't bitstream HD codecs like DTS MA HD directly to a receiver for reproduction. If you don't know what that means, it doesn't matter to you. It still has full HD audio playback, it just handles it all by itself rather than giving it to your receiver.
That pisses me off. Most don't give a shit. I can advise you on another player if you don't want an additional PS3, cant borrow the kids PS3, or the bitstream thing matters to you.
Cheers,
Kennith
http://www.videoessentials.com/DVE_HDBasics.php
It's an idiot-proof way to calibrate your display, even if you can't spell calibrate. As soon as you take that thing out of the box, run it for at least 12 hours on something very colorful, like a Pixar movie zoomed to take up the entire screen, preferably 24 hours, and then calibrate it.
You will need cables, naturally. Here is your go-to source:
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/
Their HDMI cables can be used to beat someone to death, and are the only cables that actually bother to adhere to a concrete standard. They are also far cheaper than what you will find in a store. If you buy any other cable, break a 2X4 over your head in punishment.
Get this stuff ahead of time so you can have fun with the display as soon as possible. I'm a guy. I know the nearly irresistible urge to fuck with something new.
Your PS3 is a great Blu-Ray player. If you don't have a foundation cracking carefully calibrated system and room, it's only flaw will be irrelevant. It won't bitstream HD codecs like DTS MA HD directly to a receiver for reproduction. If you don't know what that means, it doesn't matter to you. It still has full HD audio playback, it just handles it all by itself rather than giving it to your receiver.
That pisses me off. Most don't give a shit. I can advise you on another player if you don't want an additional PS3, cant borrow the kids PS3, or the bitstream thing matters to you.
Cheers,
Kennith
Kennith,
Wow man this info is helping big time. So we are considering the model you suggested and also this model Panasonic TC-P50U2, which does not have some of the upgrades as the one you suggested but may fit our needs a bit better when you consider price. Looks like the price is $699.00 for the U2 and $950.00 for the G25. The G25 has wifi and the U2 does not, am I missing something??
Also we will be hooking up the Xbox360 slim, (the newest model) to the new TV not the PS3. The PS3 is already hooked up to a LCD in another room.
Thanks again!
Wow man this info is helping big time. So we are considering the model you suggested and also this model Panasonic TC-P50U2, which does not have some of the upgrades as the one you suggested but may fit our needs a bit better when you consider price. Looks like the price is $699.00 for the U2 and $950.00 for the G25. The G25 has wifi and the U2 does not, am I missing something??
Also we will be hooking up the Xbox360 slim, (the newest model) to the new TV not the PS3. The PS3 is already hooked up to a LCD in another room.
Thanks again!
offrovn said:
The expensive one does wireless and the cheaper one does not. I wish they just called these things names like Fred and Lucy.
The U2 has VieraLink. That allows every Panasonic component in your A/V setup that supports this feature to be interconnected and controlled via one remote, opening up various linked features between the components. It's pretty cool if you like integration.
The G25 has VieraLink and VieraCast, which is the ability to wirelessly do all manner of things, when you plug in a USB adapter. Don't be hurt, there is a reason one isn't included. As you upgrade your network, you may want a different USB adapter.
VieraCast may seem stupid. I thought it was, and I didn't get the model that supported it. Nowadays, however, that capability is important for many people. The PS3 can take care of some of those features, but it's not as easy to use as the VieraCast system for most. It does the twitter thing, Skype, Youtube, Pandora, Sports, and a bunch of other stuff.
That's not important, however.
The G25 has the infinite black panel, which is the first taste of Kuro technology in any other television. Is it a Kuro? No. It's just the filter, but it's very nice. This filter reduces reflections on the plasma grid, and helps kill the standby glow a bit. Blacks look a bit blacker, without clipping the signal to achieve it.
The G25 also has 1080 lines of motion resolution, compared with the 900 lines of the U2. That makes a damn big difference if you watch a lot of sports. The bigger the television, the more this matters. 50 inches is huge. With a screen this big, those extra lines make a difference that can be noticed.
The G25 also supports more detailed tinkering for calibration, which can make a big difference. It's also got sub-pixel control, which processes each color separately rather than in one lump. The tweaks you make in calibration will have a much more notable effect and be far more accurate when the television thinks about everything differently.
The G25 has a full-on USB port, which is part of what allows the VieraCast functionality, working with the additions to the television itself. It's got a LAN port as well, and a PC input, which isn't such a big deal. I mean, you can use it as a PC monitor, you just have to watch your ass with that, lest it burn in. They are still a little more sensitive to that than the old CRT displays.
It will also swivel 10 degrees, where the other model will not. That's not so critical on a Plasma. They look pretty much the same from any reasonable angle. For some idiot reason it weighs less as well.
So, look at all that and decide if you can spare the extra 250 bucks. Forget the added nonsense. This is a better display. A few years ago, it would have been at least 4 grand to get this capability.
It looks like Panasonic is offering the lowest price of any trusted seller right now, so it's a good time to snap one up. Best Buy might have one on a shelf, but you have to be brave to step out tomorrow.
All these things are worth thinking about. Either way, it's a lot of money for a television. Consider, however, that you are going to have this thing for years, and it may be best to get a better model while you can. Forget the useless crap on it. The G25 is a kick-ass display.
It had me at 1080 lines of moving picture resolution and sub-pixel control.:rofl: Hell, the non-reflective filter is worth entry.
So, it's definately worth the 250 bucks. Consider, however, that this thing would actually be seven hundred dollars more at retail price, and it's worth that as well for some people. Panasonic is bending right over for you.
You just need to decide if it's worth an extra 250 for your uses. You might find one in town on sale for even less.
Shipping from Panasonic is damn near free. Call to be sure everything is clear, though, as they do have to charge sales tax, and they also tend to have other offers available for what you are purchasing. Never just order something. Always call and be sure.
So, no judgment passed. The difference after tax is going to be more, as there is more to tax. The shipping should be irrelevant. If you are considering buying the G25, don't bother staring at it, call Panasonic immediately and be sure about the prices. When you have done that, you will be able to determine the true value of the display to you.
It's going to be better than the other one, but by how much is related to the value you place on the difference in price.
It's pretty much a full-on home theater display for the man without need for the top shelf, versus a normal plasma television. That's what the difference in performance comes down to.
Either one is a good television.
I probably didn't help here.:rofl: Don't worry about me. Stick with what you need.
Cheers,
Kennith
I noticed your television is a Black Friday deal at Best Buy. If you are going to be out anyway, and you catch it and can have a look at the available settings, good. If it's good enough for you and you want it, you may as well get it while you can.
You don't have time to consider everything I've said, so you are going to have to decide on the fly.
Cheers,
Kennith
You don't have time to consider everything I've said, so you are going to have to decide on the fly.
Cheers,
Kennith
offrovn said:Kennith,
Based on some research and your suggestions, it looks like we are going to go with the G25 in 42". We found one on Panasonic's web page for $735.00
Can't beat that with a broom stick
That thing is going to be solid in 42 inch. Very nice indeed. That's a good size for most people, and would even work for me. In fact, that's the size I was out for to begin with, but I smelled a fool in a place that only had the 50, and I nailed him to the fucking wall.
Just make sure to call Panasonic and clear the air before you stuff yourself on the U2. You need to be sure you know how much it's going to cost in the end. When you order, call them again. Make sure everything is being processed properly.
Panasonic won't knowingly screw you, but around the holidays, websites can be finicky, even theirs. They will be happy to assist you, I'm sure.
If you pick that thing up, you are getting a good display. It may seem strange, but the best shit was available a couple of years ago, and we are just getting back to that again with models like this. At that point in time, these displays were nearly all built to be the best they could be. Now, they aren't.
This series, however, is headed in the right direction again.
Just be sure to follow your instinct, and not to let me talk you into anything. My points are accurate, but data is never the only factor. You have to be comfortable with your purchase.
Cheers,
Kennith
MarkP said:
ListenUp is great. They have matched prices for me in the past and I almost refuse to buy anywhere else (TVs at least, can't afford thir audio, or have not rationalized it yet). I have 3 sony and 2 are bravia XBR.
If you can find a Sony with the SXRD ship, then do it. It could be a screamin' deal for such an awesome chip. I have 55" rear projection SXRD, that I will put up against almost anything 5x it's price (I paid $800 from ListenUp once the units were discontinued). I spent about 10 hours in the service menus aligning and calibrating and the picture is absolutely awesome. I work with $50k+ video projectors on almost a daily basis and feel that I am a pretty good judge of image quality, although the projectors I work with are usually above 1080p capability, usually they are QXGA or WUXGA and a rare HXGA.