HELP! Lucas Strikes!

RBBailey

Well-known member
Jul 26, 2004
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Oregon
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Theories:

#1: Battery -- I don't think it is

#2: EFI or some other gremlin under the passenger seat

#3: Fuseable link -- not

#4: Could the main fusebox in the engine bay simply come disconnected???

#5: Could the ignition switch simply have stopped working in the run position??? (although it would have been disconnected in the run posistion since none of the stuff in question works while in the start position either.)

#6: ??????

#7: Liberals in the media
 
B

Best4x4

Guest
Did you take the battery out and have it tested? Have you made sure the ECU is connected good? Did you check your fuel pump relay? Any aftermarket alarm installed with say a starter kill? Just a few ideas I thought I'd throw your way.

Tad
 

RBBailey

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Jul 26, 2004
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Even if the ECU were disconnected -- I would still see lights on the dash, and the vent fans would work wouldn't they?

No alarm -- that I know of!

I'm afraid, I'm very afraid.
 
H

heiff

Guest
Yes, EVERY electrical circuit in the vehicle connects with the terminal on the starter motor. Judging from the diagram, there are likely 3 or 4 "main leads" there. Leave one or more off, and huge sections of the electrics will be without power.

Check them carefully...my gut tells me that one of the nuts that fastens the leads to the starter or starter solenoid has come loose.
 

RangeRoverHP

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
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Philly
RBBailey said:
I did just replace the starter motor -- does the main lead go to the starter, then on to the rest of the vehicle?

YES.

Did it start after you replaced it?
If so, are all the connections tight?
If not, are all the connections in the correct stud?
 

RBBailey

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Jul 26, 2004
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Yes, I drove it 3 times after replacing the starter.

I am just looking over the truck and trying one thing after another, nothing is making sense. Nothing is out of place, it is simply dead.

I have checked a couple of the obvious spots, the starter is next, and after that I am going to pull the lower dash pannel and steering column since... well, why would the radio and all work with the key turned, but not other things?
 

RBBailey

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Jul 26, 2004
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OK, who remembers when I had my vehicle turn off completely when I turned the brights on?

Well, I am suspicious of the steering column for that reason, also because the steering wheel is not original, someone switched it out at some point (it's blue), the steering column cover has always been loose. And just now I found that by wiggling the wires in the steering column I can get one more thing to work -- the door/key bell!!

Anyway, it's my only lead, so I'm going to pull the column off... If you think about it, the vehicle is working in the Start mode, but not in the Run mode...
 
H

heiff

Guest
Why do the radio and lighting work with the key turned, but not other things? For exactly the reasons RangeRoverHP and I just described! The fact that you just changed the starter is a HUGE red flag...

?You've recently changed the starter, which means you've disturbed the connection point for EVERYthing electrical in the vehicle.

?Suddenly, huge parts of the electrical system are without power.


If you want a more specific explanation of why some things work, and others don't, you need to take a look at the wiring diagram. Basically, there are 2 "main" connections at the starter. One of them (surprise!) supplies power to everything in the car that works with the ignition OFF. Since your headlights and other unswitched things (like the courtesy lights) are working, we know that this connection is OK.

The other connection is to the starter solenoid. Your starter works when you turn the key, so we know that this connection is ok, too. So let's start looking beyond the solenoid. It has two connections. One goes to the ignition switch (ok, because the starter goes when you turn the key), and the other goes to the alternator.

If power *was* reaching the alternator (from the starter solenoid), the dash lights would all come on when you turned the key. Since this doesn't happen, that substantially narrows the possibilities. No fuses or anything else are in the way. The charging/ignition light is on one wire, and the "bulb check" ecu (which turns on all the other warning lights) is on another, and both connect directly to the alternator. If you turn the key, and none come on, one of the following has happened:

1. the battery is dead (but we know it's ok, because the headlights are working)
2. there's a bad connection at the starter (but we know that's ok because the starter works when you turn the key)
3. there's a bad connection between the starter solenoid and the alternator
4. the ignition switch is fried (but again, the starter works when you turn the key)
5. the bulb check ecu & ignition warning bulb have BOTH failed simultaneously (pretty unlikely)

See where this is going? The plausible explanations are number 3 and possibly 4 - for the warning lights AND everything else that's not getting power.

You need to check these connections first. And if they seem ok, it's time to pull out a meter or test light and TEST them to see if they're getting power.

The solution to your problem will not be to pull the lower dash or the the steering column panel. For all these things to have stopped functioning means:
either there's a bad (or no) connection at a major distribution point (as detailed above), a partially fried ignition switch, or the most exciting alternative, which is the catastrophic failure of dozens of fuses and electronic components. Which seems most likely?
 
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RBBailey

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Thanks Ian, I think you are right.

The lead that comes off of the starter must be the trail leading to where all these problems are happening. I couldn't figure out the electrical issues on my IIa, now I've got this.

If I get what you are saying, if the alternator doesn't connect to the starter (the solenoid must open the circut to the alternator?) then the vehicle won't turn on. But does that make sense even if I have not turned the key all the way to START? I would have no clue. But all of the normal stuff that is supposed to come on when the key is in the RUN position before the car is started, isn't coming on.
 
H

heiff

Guest
Hi RB, read my post again, because I've revised several times!

Basically, you need to begin by checking the connection between the starter solenoid and the alternator. This seems to be be where the problem lies, and yes, that's where the power for the fuel injection, power windows, dash warning lights, etc etc ALL comes from. No connection there means none of those things will work, and of course the car won't start either!

Hope that helps.
 
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RBBailey

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Jul 26, 2004
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Is that connection a large cable, or a smaller connection? Because I only have the two larger cables -- the old starter also only had the large cables. I looked at that connection, but didn't "see" anything wrong, I will have to actually inspect it closely now.
 

RBBailey

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Jul 26, 2004
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OK, so I don't see any problems with the lead coming off of the starter. All the sensors are plugged in, the lead is nice and solid at the starter, and the connections to the alternator are fine. I don't know how else to test other than to jiggle, unplug/replug... I'm extremely bad at this.

The other thing that happened is that I did actually get it to start just now, but only because something connected for just long enough for it to all come back to life. I still suspect this is something in the steering column. First, the truck has shut down while driving when I engage high beams. Second, the to large wires that are soldered to the ignition in the steering column are loose, and only by holding them at a certain angle does the door alarm come on. Third, the steering wheel is not the original -- someone has been in there before.

Yes, the truck started, but then just died when whatever connection that is causing this came undone again.
 

RBBailey

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Jul 26, 2004
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The alternator is getting 12v from the battery. I tested this with a multimeter at the main lead going to the alternator -- I don't know if this is significant...
 

nosivad_bor

Well-known member
Mar 27, 2004
6,061
64
Pittsburgh, PA
ben try taking the leads to the starter and reversing tghem maybe you have backward also maybe some grime in there, so make sure they are clean connections and tight.
 

RBBailey

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Jul 26, 2004
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OK, this bundle of wires, below the steering column on the right side, is the culprit. If I lift up on it and jiggle it around the whole car comes to life like normal. Some large connector hidden deep in the recesses of this tangle has come loose... imagine how frustrating this would be if it had happened on the trail! So, unless I can find the actual connection just by looking, I will spend the weekend threading through wires...
 

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H

heiff

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Hey, it's progress!! You've got it narrowed down quite a bit! I'd check where the column ignition switch attaches to the main harness, since this (the switch and the wiring attached to it) affects large parts of the electrics. So maybe there's a dodgy connector...or maybe someone has done some really awful cutting and splicing of wires down there. This would have been at the bottom of my list of possibilities, but when people have been messing with the electrics, anything is possible.