garrett said:
I would generally agree with that but I would take it out to 2004 with the death of the DII. For one year the 2004 DII with CDL and 4.6L engine was pretty nice, the way the DII should have been from 1999 when DII was released.
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I would generally agree with that but I would take it out to 2004 with the death of the DII. For one year the 2004 DII with CDL and 4.6L engine was pretty nice, the way the DII should have been from 1999 when DII was released.
I think coming out with a back to roots basic rover is what LR needs.
I realize that new Defenders (as we know them) will never come to the US without a complete redesign, but I think LR needs to follow the success of Jeep with its CJ/Wrangler line and bring back simplicity.
The Wranglers that replaced the CJ's still retained the same basic functionality and never went overboard with gizmos. Why can't rover build a stripped down truck similar to the Defender?
Look at all of the people buying used RRCs, DI, and D2s! Young adults who use the hell of them! If rover designed a vehicle to fit that niche - meaning inexpensive and no frills - all of those sales would be going to LRNA.
Why hasn't LR addressed the fact they end up competing with Hyundai and Kia every year for the least reliable vehicles? Are any MKIII or RRS trucks going to be roadworthy in 20 years?
I realize that new Defenders (as we know them) will never come to the US without a complete redesign, but I think LR needs to follow the success of Jeep with its CJ/Wrangler line and bring back simplicity.
The Wranglers that replaced the CJ's still retained the same basic functionality and never went overboard with gizmos. Why can't rover build a stripped down truck similar to the Defender?
Look at all of the people buying used RRCs, DI, and D2s! Young adults who use the hell of them! If rover designed a vehicle to fit that niche - meaning inexpensive and no frills - all of those sales would be going to LRNA.
Why hasn't LR addressed the fact they end up competing with Hyundai and Kia every year for the least reliable vehicles? Are any MKIII or RRS trucks going to be roadworthy in 20 years?
What I would move overseas to have:
1. Defender - Why is LR so stupid look how the old ones sell. $35K for a basic truck with 70K miles. My Toyota and Jeep friends say they would come running to Rover if they could get a Defender.
2. Diesel.
3. Locking diffs - my friends stock '97 FZJ-80 Land Cruiser with all three locking diffs and my stepmoms GX 470 both make my truck look like a panzy simply b/c they come with a locking diff and mine didnt.
4. Stronger axles and diffs from the factory - enough said.
5. Solid axles
6. Vehicles that are eaasier to upgrade - i.e. lift, tires, suspension etc.
7. Swing away spare tire carrier - something strong
1. Defender - Why is LR so stupid look how the old ones sell. $35K for a basic truck with 70K miles. My Toyota and Jeep friends say they would come running to Rover if they could get a Defender.
2. Diesel.
3. Locking diffs - my friends stock '97 FZJ-80 Land Cruiser with all three locking diffs and my stepmoms GX 470 both make my truck look like a panzy simply b/c they come with a locking diff and mine didnt.
4. Stronger axles and diffs from the factory - enough said.
5. Solid axles
6. Vehicles that are eaasier to upgrade - i.e. lift, tires, suspension etc.
7. Swing away spare tire carrier - something strong
scottjal said:
The old school series guys will say it died far before the DI and in 10 years they will be saying it died with the LR4.
Fact is it is dead in the current state. With solid axles gone and the introduction of TC, terrain response and every other "aiding" device, the vehicles no longer rely on skilled driver input of any significance. All you need is a driver behind the wheel and little common sense or knowledge to get them through and presto. But that's what they want.
Just another step closer to being chimps again.
Loz,
Thanks for taking an interest from the enthusiast community! I'll try and keep it as simple as possible:
1. Reliability - the biggie. As a past owner of a 2002 Disco II and current owner of a 2004 Disco II, I must say I have been seriously disapointed with the problems I have encountered from 2 brand new vehicles. Combined, since the purchase of my 2002, I have been to the dealer over 20 times for warranty related issues!
The short list would include:
R/R ABS lights x4
Replace ABS sensors x3
Replace front drive shaft x2
leaking windshield x1
power windows (clips that break not allowing window to go up) x3
R/R leaking valve cover gaskets x2
R/R leaking head gaskets x2
Replaced rear diffrential x1
Replace noisy catalytic converter x1
Replace Throttle body x1
Replace motor mounts x5
I know there is more.....
As I type this list I think of how ridiculous it is. Our company has purchased brand new chevy trucks that go 100,000 with as little as regular maintenance and maybe a new battery.
2. Defender - bring it back, in some shape or form.
As far as offroading is concerned, you (Landrover) pretty much had it figured out (pre 2004). Yes, things can be improved, made better, etc. but as a whole all of the products were and are capable in their stock form.
Address item number 1 and bring it back as item number 2. (and don't market the thing against the Hummer)
Thanks for taking an interest from the enthusiast community! I'll try and keep it as simple as possible:
1. Reliability - the biggie. As a past owner of a 2002 Disco II and current owner of a 2004 Disco II, I must say I have been seriously disapointed with the problems I have encountered from 2 brand new vehicles. Combined, since the purchase of my 2002, I have been to the dealer over 20 times for warranty related issues!
The short list would include:
R/R ABS lights x4
Replace ABS sensors x3
Replace front drive shaft x2
leaking windshield x1
power windows (clips that break not allowing window to go up) x3
R/R leaking valve cover gaskets x2
R/R leaking head gaskets x2
Replaced rear diffrential x1
Replace noisy catalytic converter x1
Replace Throttle body x1
Replace motor mounts x5
I know there is more.....
As I type this list I think of how ridiculous it is. Our company has purchased brand new chevy trucks that go 100,000 with as little as regular maintenance and maybe a new battery.
2. Defender - bring it back, in some shape or form.
As far as offroading is concerned, you (Landrover) pretty much had it figured out (pre 2004). Yes, things can be improved, made better, etc. but as a whole all of the products were and are capable in their stock form.
Address item number 1 and bring it back as item number 2. (and don't market the thing against the Hummer)
flyfisher11 said:
+1
I bought a '95 RRC because I can work on it..l flawed logic because all I do is work on it. Reliability really seems to be as bad as your reputation says.
Fix reliability problems -> get simpler. My parents owned a 95D1 in '95 but sold it in '96 because it never ran right.
Diesel. I know you're working on it, but would you please hurry the hell up?
Look at the success Toyota's had with the FJ Cruiser, Jeep's always had with the CJ/YJ/TJ and even the new abomination... then tell me you can't find a way to market a back-to-basics offroad vehicle. I'm not buying a damn $50-70k rig to beat up as a working vehicle, but if you had something that would compete with the new FJ and Wrangler, I'd be all over it.
Simple is better and diesel is necessary.
Thank you for listening.
Hi Loz,
Thanks for the interest. I would love the simplicity of a very elegantly designed, but basic mechanical machine that lends itself to future upgrades and modifications (which is why the Defender is so loved). Diff locks, diesel and the ability to be able to modify the suspension to accommodate taller tires are all desirable. I'd almost like to say it that it essentially needs 3-world simplicity and reliability; what we're asking for is something that we know we can still use for years to come and do most of the work ourselves on it. Most of us are do-it-yourselfers (or we're learning to be).
It's almost as if you truly want success, you have to do what nobody else is doing: bring back something simple like a Defender.
Thanks for the interest. I would love the simplicity of a very elegantly designed, but basic mechanical machine that lends itself to future upgrades and modifications (which is why the Defender is so loved). Diff locks, diesel and the ability to be able to modify the suspension to accommodate taller tires are all desirable. I'd almost like to say it that it essentially needs 3-world simplicity and reliability; what we're asking for is something that we know we can still use for years to come and do most of the work ourselves on it. Most of us are do-it-yourselfers (or we're learning to be).
It's almost as if you truly want success, you have to do what nobody else is doing: bring back something simple like a Defender.
They're probably too busy having tea, crumpets and watercress sandwiches. Kind of like fiddling while Rome burns.
if we want to give constructive input and actually see results, we have to keep in mind that we'll have to build off of what they give us... and not expect our dream machine. Let's make a list of core things the truck needs. I think that everybody agrees on this:
Frame
Turbo Diesel w/ bio abilities
Respectable Mileage
Some creature comforts
Front, Center, and Rear Diff Locks
Big wires for lighting and inline plugs for more
Built in Sliders
Solid Axels
Adjustable Arms
5 Speed + Reverse Transmission w/ hybrid auto/ manual shift
Beefy Steering
Front and rear fuse blocks w/ extra lugs and spaces and some blank switch plates
I think that the rest is kind of a taste thing. And that makes it somewhat cost effective to produce and still serve the core market (yuppies) and the brand's heritage. any other core items?
Frame
Turbo Diesel w/ bio abilities
Respectable Mileage
Some creature comforts
Front, Center, and Rear Diff Locks
Big wires for lighting and inline plugs for more
Built in Sliders
Solid Axels
Adjustable Arms
5 Speed + Reverse Transmission w/ hybrid auto/ manual shift
Beefy Steering
Front and rear fuse blocks w/ extra lugs and spaces and some blank switch plates
I think that the rest is kind of a taste thing. And that makes it somewhat cost effective to produce and still serve the core market (yuppies) and the brand's heritage. any other core items?
Robert Alley said:
I kind of have to disagree with you on these points.
1. They don't want to change the defender so it won't come over here
2. Not everyone here is sold on diesel, I would say the people who are in the market for these vehicles and who demand diesel are a very small minority.
3. Doesn't the LR3 have a rear diff lock?
4. reality has to set in when building a vehicle. LR axles are plenty strong in factory form
5. I agree, solid axles need to come back
6. I read an interview with a jeep JK designer before they were released and when asked whats the most it could be lifted before the suspension would have to be redone the answer was something along the lines of "I don't know, Jeep isn't in the market of selling modified vehicles"
7. See 6, if its not modified it needs to hold a 30" tire at most.
jwest said:
Allow me to clarify: I wasn't referring to American diesels versus V8 Rover mileage.... I was meaning gas versus diesel in each respective field, American versus Rover....
My V8 Sierra gets ~19mpg on gasoline; in the diesel version, I'd have twice the torque, but no better mileage.
With a Rover, sure, the V8 is getting 15mpg on gas; the Rover diesel doesn't have twice the torque, it has about the same amount, but it gets twice the mileage.