Lifting the LR3

[umbertob]

Besides increasing ground clearance in normal height, this shortened joint modification would also appear to increase clearance - compared to stock - when switching to offroad mode. Without the trick, any additional clearance in offroad mode is only selected automatically by the car's electronics when they sense grounding and wheel slippage.

I don't know about cutting wires on an LR3... Even if an actual speed sensor wire was to be found, all these off road programs / settings are stored on electronic modules and I suspect that cutting anything would generate a ton of system fault messages.

 

[Disco303]

Ahhhhhhh, ok, I see now.

Question, though. It's now obvious that the speed sensor is related the the "knob" inside the vehicle. Once you turn the knob to a off-road setting and the vehicle rises up, it activates the speed sensor thus limiting you to ~20mph.

So, why not trace this mod to the sensor? There basically has to be a "remote turn on" wire somewhere between the knob and what ever sensor controls your speed. Sounds to me like you could clip a wire and deactivate the "speed limiter", then just control your ride height from inside the truck.

Seems to me like this would be the better way to fix this "problem". As for the people running in off-Road mod full time, well, they're dumbasses until they figure out a way to shim the control arms to correct the alignment.

Wow, being called a 'dumbass' was enough for me to re-subscribe...

Dude- do you even read the posts that you are responding to? This mod isn't so we can cruise around in Off-road height on the street... There are plenty of pics of new links in the web-links above. I'm sure you can use the search feature over there just as easily as the rest of us. The mod is to lift the truck. Why would we want to change alignment? The off-road height sensor links are for just that. The stock and modded links can be changed in a couple minutes at the trailhead. I put 1000 miles both on and off road to test the links, not to see a difference in tire wear. Alignment is all in spec with the factory arms. Throw on the modded links at the trail, and presto-chango, instant lift. Who cares if the alignment is out of spec off-road. Want it back in spec? Throw the original links on. It's that simple.

I don't think you understand the relationship between wheel speed, yaw sensor outputs, and terrain response. Nothing 'limits' the car to ~20mph. The vehicle will self lower to standard height at around 30mph. This mod only increases the height settings on the factory suspension modes. Hence, with the shortened links, my 'standard' height setting is now about 25mm over what the factory ' off-road' setting used to be. Off-road height is now (on mine) about 75mm higher than it used to be.

Done wheelin? A quick swap back to factory length links reverts the entire system back to factory specs.

 

[D Chapman]

Wow, being called a 'dumbass' was enough for me to re-subscribe...

Dude- do you even read the posts that you are responding to? This mod isn't so we can cruise around in Off-road height on the street... .

Yeah, but you know it's going in that direction.

There are plenty of pics of new links in the web-links above. I'm sure you can use the search feature over there just as easily as the rest of us. .

I'm not asking these question on that web site, am I?

The mod is to lift the truck. Why would we want to change alignment? .

You are changing the alignment when you lift the truck.

The off-road height sensor links are for just that. The stock and modded links can be changed in a couple minutes at the trailhead. .

Sounds like a PITA to me. After a muddy trail run; when it's cold; raining; etc...

I put 1000 miles both on and off road to test the links, not to see a difference in tire wear. Alignment is all in spec with the factory arms. Throw on the modded links at the trail, and presto-chango, instant lift. Who cares if the alignment is out of spec off-road. Want it back in spec? Throw the original links on. It's that simple..

Again, see above. PITA. Why not just do it from inside the truck?

I don't think you understand the relationship between wheel speed, yaw sensor outputs, and terrain response. Nothing 'limits' the car to ~20mph. The vehicle will self lower to standard height at around 30mph .

So, if nothing limites the truck to ~20-30mph, why does it lower down? Sounds like a limiting factor to me.....Other wise, what is the main reason for doing this mod? If it's not to overcome the speed barrier or to ride around in "high" mode, why do it at all?

This mod only increases the height settings on the factory suspension modes. Hence, with the shortened links, my 'standard' height setting is now about 25mm over what the factory ' off-road' setting used to be. Off-road height is now (on mine) about 75mm higher than it used to be..

Why not just do the 'foot on the brake and push the ride heigth button' deal, then? Doesn't that lift the truck over the normal "off-road" heigth???

Done wheelin? A quick swap back to factory length links reverts the entire system back to factory specs.

Again, PITA.



What I'm getting at, is I'm sure all this can be done remotly from inside the cab using the exsisting "off-road" controls. Just, no one has takin the time to figure it out, yet.

 

[umbertob]

What I'm getting at, is I'm sure all this can be done remotly from inside the cab using the exsisting "off-road" controls. Just, no one has takin the time to figure it out, yet.

Matzker has figured it out, sort of. They sell an add-on canbus suspensions module to increase both stock off road height - to near extended offroad - and stock normal height - to near offroad height and working at speeds up to 60 mph - at the touch of a button. The Matzker module can also slightly decrease height (an inch or so) from normal to high-speed highway mode at any speed, while currently highway mode only kicks in if you drive over 100 mph, at least on my Sport. It all sounds great, but the module costs 3 grands, the only company able to install it in the US is in Pennsylvania, and they need your car for a few hours for "calibration purposes"...

 

[Disco303]

What I'm getting at, is I'm sure all this can be done remotly from inside the cab using the exsisting "off-road" controls. Just, no one has takin the time to figure it out, yet.

Long story short, you can. The Matzker lift is about 3 grand.

The rest.. nevermind...

 

[gordonwh]

What I'm getting at, is I'm sure all this can be done remotly from inside the cab using the exsisting "off-road" controls. Just, no one has takin the time to figure it out, yet.

You _can_ achieve this by installing a module such as the Matzker one mentioned - but it's pricy. One could also vary the ground voltage seen by the height control module for a similar effect - I may actually try that.

However, the swapping of the control rods is not that much a PITA as you think - and I generally get out of the car to air down at the start of a track anyway. Note that for my useage, I'm not trying to affect the speed at which the car auto lowers - I just want (on some tracks) more ground clearance.

Normally, when in off-road height, the suspension ECU will automatically raise the car a further 30mm or so if it decides it is in a 'grounded' state. It will only stay in this state for 45sec of driving, and then lower again. While in this 'extended' profile however, the driver can then select a further extension of some 40mm or so. But only _after_ the car has first automatically raised to this extended profile.

For some tracks, I want the car to start off at the extended profile height, because I know the car will ground out otherwise, and raising the car _after_ the event is often useless. Additionally, I might not be clear of the obstacle within the alloted 45sec and having the car suddenly lower can cause damage (as happened to my compressor cover, before I fitted a protection plate). So for those tracks, I swap over to the shortened rods.

The car is then still capable of raising automatically if I _still_ get grounded, because of that extra 40mm in reserve for the driver when normally in extended profile.

I have never tried to activate the driver-selected extra lift when using the shortened rods, but I believe that once the car has reached it's max possible height, the over-pressure switch will prevent any further lift, regardless of the length of the control rods. However, the compressor will still activate, presumably until it's over-temp regulator cuts in.

Cheers,

Gordon

 

[D Chapman]

So, I'm not so sure I understand why you people do thins now. If it's not to over come the top speed while in "off-road" mode, why bother?

When the truck is in Extended mode, it's worthless. It rides like shit and it has no articulation what so ever. I 100% agree that articulation is way over rated, but damn, you need something. It would seem to me that you're putting WAY too much stress on the air bags by doing this.

The only sweet advantage I can see by doing this in off-road mode is the top speed deal.

As far as 3k for that module you people are referring to...thats absurd. I can not for the life of me understand why it would cost that much or be that hard to install. If it's just changing the perimeters of the OHM load the height sensor reads, thats achieved with a few resistors from radio shack for a quarter a piece. Maybe they made it all fancy, but I don't think it has to be. But I don't think that's the answer.

Something has to read the wheel speed. Something has to send a signal to the dump valve on the air bags. Something has to send a signal to tell the truck when it's at normal, off-road, and extended ride heights. You people have found the simpler option. But i think the key is to eliminate the signal from the speed sensor to the air bags, first. Then, if you still value the "hyper extended" mode, that could be achieved with another switch or another position on the selector knob.

I understand that the mod you people are doing is "easy". But it's like unbolting or disconnecting the sway bars on any other truck; over time it just becomes a PITA. You can either take offense to the opinion I have, or you can help me to better understand this truck and I can use what I know to help build a better option.

 

[gordonwh]

So, I'm not so sure I understand why you people do thins now. If it's not to over come the top speed while in "off-road" mode, why bother?

I can't comment on other people's motives for swapping out the control rods. For myself, it is as I outlined above - to get a temporary increase in clearance. A lot of mining tracks I drive on are deeply rutted and the car at 'normal' off-road height scrapes the underbelly on the centre of the track.

When the truck is in Extended mode, it's worthless. It rides like shit and it has no articulation what so ever. I 100% agree that articulation is way over rated, but damn, you need something.

Yes, there is less articulation at the new off-road height, but still enough - about the same as the Landcruisers the mining companies over here use. And on tracks where the extra height is necessary, the last thing I'm worrying about is ride quality. I also have the rear e-locker, so traction is greatly improved (somewhat mitigating the reduced articulation).

It would seem to me that you're putting WAY too much stress on the air bags by doing this.

IIRC the air bags are rated to an additional 150 psi over and above the pressure available from the compressor. And in my case, the vehicle is not riding at the new height for any significantly greater amount of time than it would have. It is simply at the new height _before_ it gets stuck on an obstacle.

The only sweet advantage I can see by doing this in off-road mode is the top speed deal. As far as 3k for that module you people are referring to...thats absurd.

We obviously require different things from our LR3/D3's, so perhaps this mod won't suit what you want to do. For me, I drive it daily, compete in it and need to visit mine sites. The speed issue is not important. See the attached image for an example of what I need it for - obviously, speed is not high on my priority list!

If you need to overcome the speed limit for off-road height, I agree the Matzker kit is an over-the-top way to do it. However, it should be fairly straightforward to design an intercepting circuit to place in front of the sensor lines into the suspension ECU (behind the lower glovebox). The circuit diagrams are available from LR UK online (for a subscription), and I think there is a tuning company in the UK (TorqTune?) that is working on this (although I think their idea is to simply overwrite the suspension ECU map). I haven't bothered with this myself because a) I'm not interested in changing the lowering speed and b) I don't think my dealer would approve.

If you get around to investigating this avenue though, I'd be interested in your approach.

Cheers,

Gordon

 

[D Chapman]

Tami will be here Sunday with her truck. I will take a few looks.

 

[ozscott]

The test that I was referring to was in one of the Brit mags - LRO or LR Enthuasist and it was in my local news agent in Qld. It was pretty funny but a good and realistic test. The LR3 need all those tractions aids because its so heavy it wouldnt go anywhere without them.

Seriously though the Australian 4X4 Monthly tests have shown time and again that the LR3 petrol or diesel has a week point on deep soft sand - the sort of place that the D1 and D2 (particularly the D2s with CDL) eat...even Pajeros (Mondeo's overseas) are better in those conditions.

Cheers

 

[luvs2getmuddy]

Wow, very interesting information here.
I hope to own a RRS Supercharged in the future for a daily/mild wheeler, and would love to see what is available in terms of more lift. Do all of these things just discussed work ont he RR aswell?

 

[gordonwh]

Seriously though the Australian 4X4 Monthly tests have shown time and again that the LR3 petrol or diesel has a week point on deep soft sand - the sort of place that the D1 and D2 (particularly the D2s with CDL) eat...even Pajeros (Mondeo's overseas) are better in those conditions.

Cheers

Most tests done in Oz feature the vehicle fitted with the 18" rims and low profile tyres. In that configuration, sand performance is pretty poor. So too for the RRS, Porsche, BMW, etc etc. If you're using any of these in the sand, higher profile tyres are a must - as one 4WD Monthly test stated. For the D3, the 17" rims give you a fairly wide range of tyres to choose from. Given adequate rubber, the torque from the D3 TDV6 or V8 will more than compensate for it's slight weight penalty - even when towing a Pajero or two

Cheers,

Gordon

 

[ozscott]

Thats interesting because 17 inch are still pretty big mags, but if you can sling some higher profile tyres - say 70 profile on them surely it would, as you say, go better in the sand than the low prof 18's - its the longitudinal footprint that is most important in sand. I would be keen to hear from those with an LR3 with decent rubber (and what that rubber is) about deep SOFT sand running. At some point in the next couple of years I will need a 7 seater and the sand performance is a must.

Cheers

 

[D Chapman]

When lifting the LR3 into Extended mode, what about the angles and stresses placed on the CV's?

 

[gordonwh]

When lifting the LR3 into Extended mode, what about the angles and stresses placed on the CV's?

I guess there is no real answer to this yet, as there aren't many D3s out there running significant mileage at extended mode height (noting that the std configuration doesn't allow you to stay at this height for any great length of time). The only info I can offer is my own experience - in comps, the car is almost always at extended mode, and often driven hard enough over obstacles to have the front of the car leave the ground. The tyres are 32.5" 10 ply muddies, so fairly heavy lumps of rubber. I've done 4 comps so far, and as yet, no problems. However, I try to avoid using full lock under power when at extended height, to reduce the max stress on the cv's.

I have driven (once) 200 ~ 300km at highway speed at extended height, due to a compressor malfunction. There was no significant detriment to handling, although the ride was a little harsher.

I would be keen to hear from those with an LR3 with decent rubber (and what that rubber is) about deep SOFT sand running.

Again from my own experience. I run 265/70/17 Mickey Thompson MTZ's normally (and Super Swampers in the same size for comp work). The MTZ's bag out well on sand when run at 16psi. On _very_ soft sand, I've had them down to 9psi (and so did the 8 assorted vehicles with me) trying to climb off an eroding beach track. Only 4 of us made it up without assistance, so I'd say that the D3 can be pretty effective in sand.

Cheers,

Gordon

 

[gordonwh]

Actually, an added thought re CV stresses - some of the coil-sprung owners have fitted longer springs - I seem to recall a Belgian comp car that had +4" or so? They would be running permanently at higher CV angles. Perhaps they can shed some light on the reliability of the CVs under these conditions?

Cheers,

Gordon

 

[ozscott]

Cheers Gordon - its good to hear; the SE for me then if I go there.

Cheers again.

 

[nwoods]

I run taller springs on my coiler (65mm or about 2.6") of permanent lift. No issues, lots of miles on them now. Just need to watch the tire alignment is all.

As for deep soft sand, I ran 285/60/18 Nitto Terra Grapplers at 15psi and did just fine in floatation and power.

 

[JamesWyatt]

I seem to remember reading at least one, maybe two cases reported on disco3.co.uk of CV snap in super-extended mode.

 

[jwest]

Long story short, you can. The Matzker lift is about 3 grand.

The rest.. nevermind...

1565 Euros / $2212 usd for the "electronic handling kit" and shipping quoted directly from the company.

I was in contact with them months ago about getting one but thought I'd wait to see if the price dropped.

I was NOT aware that only some place in PA can install it. WTF is up with that?! Does anyone here really know this for a fact?

They make some totally sweet billet hub-centric wheel spacers too that may actually be useful for the larger/wider tires seeing as any near the 11.7" width come very close to the silly designed upper shock/air spring (?) mount point.