Looking at a Series III

[Narzuhl]

So i am looking at a series III.
The unit i am looking at is up for around 4k and is RHD.
The floors look perfect (in pictures) and i am going to look at this in person this weekend. The Main problem is the Frame is rusty. so how much trouble will this be to swap a RHD frame?
I wanted a Series II or IIA but this series III looks very nice. The owner imported this straight from England and has done a lot of work on it in the last few years Mechanicly it is sould. But is 4000 (4000 is right at my limit as well for a vehicle i want to restore) to much for a unit is a Rusted Frame?
I have not see it yet so i will have to see how bad the bulkhead is (i figure if that is bad then i might pass) I have done alot of research and this will be my first ( and i am sure not my last ) Series.
Ok my plan would be simple. Buy a decent Servies II, IIa, III and take a few years to restore it (this would not be my primary driver yet)
So what else should i look for or just wait for a good series II, IIa?
Look at it here and let me know http://www.geocities.com/firemanshort
Looks like the site is not working
So here is some info

1973 Series III SWB ''Highlander''

This is a unique Land Rover with some documented history. It was rebuilt in the early 1990's when it gained the ''Highlander'' designation. It was featured on the cover of Land Rover World in October of 1996 (magazine included). I imported it in 2001 and have worked on it steady since then. New parts include; 3/4 synchro in transmission (resealed - no leaks) New exhaust (complete - 2005) New Rocky Montain Parabolics w/ Shocks (Fall 2003) New 7.5x16 MT tires (less than 2,500 miles) Replaced head gasket (summer 2003) Complete soft top w/ new tailgate - all perfect condition - New brake shoes and wheel / master cylinders. There is much more to tell. This is a very strong truck that I have driven long distances to club events and rallys with no problems. Only problem is that the frame rust has gotten too bad.

 

[WillTN]

I think that truck is also on LRX.

 

[Leslie]

David Short is over on Art Bitterman's board all the time. Straight-forward guy as far as I know; I've met him at a rally or two. I don't know his truck personally, but I'd wholly expect him to be straight w/ ya...

FWIW, a new chassis is gonna be $2k, no matter where you get it... even if some places have it for less, you have to get it to you.

You don't have to be a mechanic to swap it all over, it is a straight-forward process, but, it would be helpful to have someone who's familiar with them that could help you with the Rover-specific bits. Definitely need a Green Bible, and space and time.

SIIa versus SIII.... personal preference, tit for tat. The SIIa, with the headlights in the breakfast and the all-metal dash, is usually considered the "classic" (assuming you don't want a '48 SI), whereas many folks look at the SIII as the "poor-man's-Defender". The padded dash IS a safety feature, but, it's not ever gonna be a vehicle with side airbags (unless you have a 109 APGP out on the lake!) The transmission on the SIII is fully synchro'd, but some favor the SIIa transmission because it is a little beefier (later SIII tranmissions are even stronger than the IIa's, though).

Good luck!


-L

 

[Narzuhl]

David Short is over on Art Bitterman's board all the time. Straight-forward guy as far as I know; I've met him at a rally or two. I don't know his truck personally, but I'd wholly expect him to be straight w/ ya...

FWIW, a new chassis is gonna be $2k, no matter where you get it... even if some places have it for less, you have to get it to you.

You don't have to be a mechanic to swap it all over, it is a straight-forward process, but, it would be helpful to have someone who's familiar with them that could help you with the Rover-specific bits. Definitely need a Green Bible, and space and time.

SIIa versus SIII.... personal preference, tit for tat. The SIIa, with the headlights in the breakfast and the all-metal dash, is usually considered the "classic" (assuming you don't want a '48 SI), whereas many folks look at the SIII as the "poor-man's-Defender". The padded dash IS a safety feature, but, it's not ever gonna be a vehicle with side airbags (unless you have a 109 APGP out on the lake!) The transmission on the SIII is fully synchro'd, but some favor the SIIa transmission because it is a little beefier (later SIII tranmissions are even stronger than the IIa's, though).

Good luck!


-L

Hey thanks for the info.
2K for a Frame is exactly what i expected. Like i said this will be a 3 year project so at least 2 K is expected.
Still i like the SIIa dash better and prefer that more basic look (my wife would totaly dissagree though)
We we will see when i look at it. Thanks again for the info in David

Another David

 

[KEJ]

General question: Is a swap from a hard top to a soft top simply personal preference?

KJ

 

[Leslie]

General question: Is a swap from a hard top to a soft top simply personal preference?

For any 88, or for a 3-door 109, yep... bolts at each corner of the rear tub, and a row of them across the top of the windscreen. That gets the top off. For installing the soft-top, in addition to the hoop set and the canvas itself, there are a few other pieces that go across the top of the windshield and the top of the door-tops. Usually they're rivetted into place, but if you're going to swap back n forth seasonally, you can use bolts instead.

The hoop sets offer no rollover protection; it would be wise to add a rollbar. (The hardtop isn't great either, but is better than not having it... usually they roll over onto their sides, not completely over... the hard-top sides keep it from rolling all the way over....)


-L

 

[KEJ]

Thanks for the explanation, Leslie.

KJ

 

[Leslie]

My pleasure KJ....

FWIW, people are starting to do the same with 5-door 109s, too. The back doors had been one-piece and there weren't sockets for hoop sets, etc., so it was problematic to do such. Makers are now doing 2-piece rear doors, and so, four-door convertibles are being done now.



-L

 

[KEJ]

Les, do folks swap back and forth mainly depending on season, or is it a look they are after and they stick with their new conversion? I know so little about Series vehicles, but my inner child wants that 1960's Marlin Perkins ride, you know?

KJ

 

[Leslie]

I would guess that the majority stick with what they have, that they either want a hard-top, or a soft-top. It's a little bit of work to pull off the hard-top, so unless someone sets up a system where they can hoist the roof off by pulley, most people are too lazy.

Thing is, it's not like a hard-top is much drier or warmer than the soft-top. It's just more secure. And, you can have the roofrack on top of a hard-top (have to weld a support cage to support a rack for a soft-top.

I have a friend here in town who found that his solution was to have one of each; he has a SII 88" SW, and a '67 88" soft-top. I really like that idea, but, realistically, I can't justify having two Series Rovers.

But, there are plenty of folks that do swap seasonally. I've specifically gone out of my way to set up the Series to make it easier to switch between the two... ie, not having wiring or radios mounted in the headliner, mounting the CB antenna on the body, switching from a rear door to a tailgate/liftgate combo... little things that will make it easier to pull the top off when the time comes. Some things, like wiring, you can put in plugs so that you can unplug things and make it simpler, but something like having to re-route the CB cable everytime would get old. And, if the radio was mounted in the headliner and then you pull the top, you don't have a radio.... so, I've been trying to solve those issues as I'm putting mine together.

But you're right, a lot of it is preference.... do you want an open convertible for day-trips, or do you want security with a roofrack on top? Your goals should guide you to what suits you better....

IMHO, FWIW....

-L

 

[antichrist]

Les, do folks swap back and forth mainly depending on season, or is it a look they are after and they stick with their new conversion? I know so little about Series vehicles, but my inner child wants that 1960's Marlin Perkins ride, you know?

KJ

I always switched based on seasons. Between full length hard top, cab from a regular, and ragtop. Sometimes I used the hard top in the summer for security reasons. A full length top I'd remove just by using two 2x4's rested on the back and slide it off. The truck cab I could take off just by lifting it off.

 

[leafsprung]

Rusty Righty

4K is in the ballpark of decent non-rusty runner. If you spent more/ looked a little more you could avoid a frame swap . . .

 

[Narzuhl]

4K is in the ballpark of decent non-rusty runner. If you spent more/ looked a little more you could avoid a frame swap . . .

I am going to agree, i looked at one last night with a nice frame for 4600 but it had a rusty bulkhead.
I think i am going to widen the search range up to Vermont at well as i see alot for sale up in that area. Looks like this could take a while, but with the advise here and from other places i know i will end up with exactly what i am looking for as long as i take my time.

 

[ckuhtz]

Given that I have a 5 door 109 myself, anyone have any more info on the two piece 2nd row and rear door that was mentioned above? If it's a straightforward task, I may consider doing the same.. and still retain the ability to run with a hardtop (which is nicely heavy btw -- wish I had a hoist rig of some sort to lift it off instead of trying to recruit extra helpers. They tend to be one time use only ). Only other option is to remove the doors altogether. which isn't hard, just a pain.

 

[KEJ]

Call Tom! He's in GA, too, and doesn't seem to mind the swapping!

KJ

 

[antichrist]

Most series Rovers have the fittings already in place for the tailboard/lift hatch setup. The hatch part is the piece that can be hard to find.

The problem with 5-doors is that the pillar between the front and read doors isn't removable, so you'll have that piece stucking up. Also the door top halves on the rear doors are not removable. Some people have made modifications to fix those issues.

 

[Narzuhl]

Ok so i looked at it today and the Bulkhead has some rust as well, the frame needs to be replaced.
it is nice other than that and this would be a 3 year rebuild project. but with the frame and bulkhead rust is it work the $4K he is asking.

 

[Leslie]

I don't have any other info on the doors, I'd just noticed them over on Wise Owl's site; but yes, you would need to either cut the t-post off at the doorline and fabricate a socket of some sort for reinstalling it, making it removable.

As to whether or not is it worth it or not, that's gonna have to be a personal call. You know what your welding skills are, as far as repairing the bulkhead (or conversely, you could locate another one and swap in). Time, space, etc.... do you have room for setting up the new chassis beside the old vehicle, so you can migrate parts from one to the other, etc. The market varies from place to place... that may be the going price for your neck of the woods... some places, that may be a bargain, in other places it'd be pricey... You have to factor in time to locate one further away, transportation costs to get it home, etc. etc....


Good luck deciding...

-L

 

[Narzuhl]

My Welding skill is there and romm and be had easily, but for the price i know if i wait i can find one that does not need either a frame or a bulkhead.
Ultimatly i am trying to find a Seriees IIa/III with either a good frame or a good bulkhead.