Lower The Legal Age....

[Justin Kurosaki]

Can't compare what was in the past or how other countries are doing it. Military towns don't want a bunch of enlistees partying it up every night. If you haven't lived in a military town, then you don't know what its like to have thousands of 18-20 year olds hitting the town trying to get drunk.

Military service doesn't make them more responsible. I had to deal with the bar fights, stelar teen pregnancy rates, and car accidents. Not to mention trying to find a date in HS (and even middle school!).

We are talking about 20,000 directly related deaths per year (100,000 direct/indirect!). Why add to it?

 

[rdoane]

Can't compare what was in the past or how other countries are doing it.

And why not?

Military towns don't want a bunch of enlistees partying it up every night. If you haven't lived in a military town, then you don't know what its like to have thousands of 18-20 year olds hitting the town trying to get drunk.

What do you think a college town is like? And they don't do that when they are 21?

We are talking about 20,000 directly related deaths per year (100,000 direct/indirect!). Why add to it?

Like you would keep those who drank to near death from doing it by making it illegal. Wise up, it's just like pot; if you want it, you'll get it.

 

[Justin Kurosaki]

1. Why so?

2. I lived in a college city and yes it is different. Alcohol crime rate, teen pregnancy, etc.

3. We aren't talking about prohibition here so pot has little reference to the topic. Anyhow, its isn't about "drinking yourself to death". Most alcohol related deaths are from fights, car accidents, and shootings. And those between the ages of 18-21 (actually 16 and 21) are already the most at risk for car accidents. I guess you could just let them drink while they are at it.


Military service and legal drinking age are mutually exlusive. So what if they are different? The military doesn't want their soldiers to drink until they are 21 stateside, and the US doesn't want to lower the legal drinking age. I fail to see what the fuss is over.


-justin "typing this as he sips his fine irish beer"

 

[rdoane]

Why so?

As an alternative to our current system to compare and contrast? To show how a lower drinking age does not directly correlate with alcohol related deaths.

I lived in a college city and yes it is different. Alcohol crime rate, teen pregnancy, etc.

I guarantee you that there are college towns that have both a higher and lower crime rate than a military base; same goes for teen pregnancy.

We aren't talking about prohibition here so pot has little reference to the topic.

Wrong, it is a direct representation of underage drinkers obtaining alcohol. If someone wants it, they can get it, trust me. Obtaining alcohol underage is no feat, especially to those who drink quite often. Much in the same way as someone who enjoys pot can still get it even though it is illegal. The legality of underage drinking stops very few who would drink if it was legal.

Anyhow, its isn't about "drinking yourself to death". Most alcohol related deaths are from fights, car accidents, and shootings. And those between the ages of 18-21 (actually 16 and 21) are already the most at risk for car accidents. I guess you could just let them drink while they are at it.

Well thats why drinking and driving is illegal. Even if younger drivers are at more of a risk to have an accident, shouldn't you be more concerned of the exponentially larger amount of adults who driving under the influence at any given time rather than a relatively small number of young adults?

From this Fox News article (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,265103,00.html):
McCardell explains that the drop in highway fatalities often cited by supporters of the 21 minimum age actually began in the late 1970s, well before the federal drinking age set in.

What's more, McCardell recently explained in an online chat for the "Chronicle of Higher Education," the drop is better explained by safer and better built cars, increased seat belt use and increasing awareness of the dangers of drunken driving than in a federal standard.

The age at highest risk for an alcohol-related auto fatality is 21, followed by 22 and 23, an indication that delaying first exposure to alcohol until young adults are away from home may not be the best way to introduce them to drink.

I fail to see what the fuss is over.

The fuss if over the fact that the United States (through the persuasion of special interests groups and some members of the religious right) is denying the right of consumption of alcohol from adults ages 18-21; yet endowing them with the tasks and title of adult, one of which being enlistment.

Either your old enough to carry both a gun and a beer or neither. 21, 18, I don't care, just pick one date for the responsibilities and privileges of adulthood.

 

[Justin Kurosaki]

Lower drinking ages in foreign countries doesn't correlate to the US.

The rate of alcohol related deaths has decreased since 1979 (the number remains about the same though @ 20,000 per year). There is NO one thing that is the cause of this, but many intiatives have helped. Increased consumption age is one of them. Our aging population is another. Enforcement of DUI laws is another. Even then, it is hard to compare as number of drivers and the landscape of America has greatly changed over the past 30 years.

The fact remains is that the enlistees who "carry a gun" are supervised when SERVING. When they are not supervised, they act just like every other stupid 18 to 21 year old (like I did at that age). 18-21 olds (or there about) prove every day that they aren't responsible enough to drink unsupervised.

There are good reasons that we have age groups for different responisibilities... Being President, renting a car, purchasing a gun, purchasing alcohol, joining the military, etc.... There can't be one date as the responisibilties all differ and can't be compared.

And risking your life can't be an excuse for adulthood. Do we extend that to firefighers, police officers, crab fisherman, child pageant queen, residents of DC, Trenton, and S. LA?

I agree that the age is arbitrary. But it is 21 today, and there is more data to support a greater loss of life if it were lowered.

I also question your statement "the legality of underage drinking stops very few who would drink if it was legal". It sure in the hell curbed my drinking when I was a minor.

Anyhow, I was firing assult rifles responsibily probably before I was 12 and long before my first beer.

 

[Leslie]

Have gone into the Corps when I was 18, I remember thinking the same thing, that here I am w/ a rifle in infantry school, yet I can't legally drink (not like I hadn't drank for years, but for that matter, I was already married and a dad, too....)

But the fact of the matter is, there were FAR more drunk-driving-related deaths among 18-to-21-year-olds than there in the 21-and-over age range. Maybe it's the additional time driving that helps older drivers that have that additional experience, maybe it's a development of alcohol tolerance w/ age, I don't know, I've not studied it in depth... AND, I'm not advocating allowing drunk-driving just because someone is over 21.... far from.....

FWIW, I would have to agree that it would be better to raise the voting and enlistment age to 21 than it would be to lower the drinking age, if necessary. For that matter, IMHO, alcohol, tobacco, and marijuana should all be legal at 21, too, treated the same across the board. Be able to purchase a firearm, vote, join the military, etc. etc. I know that for myself, I matured a LOT between 18 and 21.... those are some formative years, transitioning from your teens into adulthood.... a little more time on the stove would be a good thing, IMHO....


FWIW...

 

[Leslie]

PS: however, perhaps it would be good to allow adult-supervised consumptions between 18 and 21, so as to not have it be the flood gates opening on the 21st birthday, that there's some developed experience there....

 

[Justin Kurosaki]

PS: however, perhaps it would be good to allow adult-supervised consumptions between 18 and 21, so as to not have it be the flood gates opening on the 21st birthday, that there's some developed experience there....

But that would sure take the fun out of it

 

[vray]

Hmmm, I am surprised at some of the thoughts in this thread.

I would have a really hard time telling some 18 year old who is patrolling the streets in Iraq that he cannot have a beer or two at the end of the of the day. Fuck it, have a cocktail.... You have to draw line somewhere, so why not eighteen? General consensus for decades (centuries?) seems to be that you are an adult at that point and you go out into the wild world to sink or swim.

 

[jymmiejamz]

I think that if they were to lower the drinking age now it would be like "opening the flood gates." I don't think that there is any way that a lower drinking age would ever work in America, its just not really comparable to other countries in that way.

On a side note, I think that the high drinking age does cause a lot of theft. Most of the people that I know just steal beer from the supe market, its much cheaper than buying it from someone who is over 21.

 

[Azdiscovery]

"Then I assume the military is quite different then when I was in. You did get to choose stateside vs. overseas preference and the onbase policy reflected that of your host country."

No no, youre right about being able to put down a preferance. and you are right about taking on the host country's policy on drinking. -just doesnt mean that youre going to get what you put down on your "dream sheet". actually quite funny fact is that most people that I know got 180 degrees away from what they put down. Friend wanted to come here to AZ and he got Alaska. Other friend didnt put down any overseas and got Korea.

 

[dkfrizzell]

I was 17 when I joined up in '92.. you think not being able to get a beer is bad, try not being able to get a Penthouse, rent a movie at blockbuster, or having to ask your buddy to grab a pack of smokes for you!

I even got carded when I tried to see an R rated movie after bootcamp. They let me in since the cutoff is no one under 17, but still pretty messed up.

 

[superpowerdave]

I've followed this thread with great interest as an active duty service member currently in Iraq. I'm almost thirty and I sit beside those men clearing their weapons before entering the chow hall everyday. I know for a fact that a young man in the service is burdened with a greater responsibility than those who have never been in uniform could fathom, and at an age years ahead of his time.

I think it comes down to a matter of trust - we can trust the 18 year old soldier to clear a building, to 'safe' a UXO, to launch and recover aircraft, to protect our very freedoms - and yet we can't trust him to make his own choices and accept the consequences of those decisions?

 

[Jake]

I've followed this thread with great interest as an active duty service member currently in Iraq. I'm almost thirty and I sit beside those men clearing their weapons before entering the chow hall everyday. I know for a fact that a young man in the service is burdened with a greater responsibility than those who have never been in uniform could fathom, and at an age years ahead of his time.

I think it comes down to a matter of trust - we can trust the 18 year old soldier to clear a building, to 'safe' a UXO, to launch and recover aircraft, to protect our very freedoms - and yet we can't trust him to make his own choices and accept the consequences of those decisions?

:applause: :applause:

Here is to you sir: I hope that you accomplish the mission and come home safely! atriot:

 

[Chris-St Louis]

I think Military personel should be allowed to drink regardless of age.
Civilians.... 21 is good.

If this policy was enacted, I bet Military recruitment would increase.

 

[bovw]

:applause: :applause:

Here is to you sir: I hope that you accomplish the mission and come home safely! atriot:

X2,3, and 4!atriot:

 

[bovw]

I've followed this thread with great interest as an active duty service member currently in Iraq. I'm almost thirty and I sit beside those men clearing their weapons before entering the chow hall everyday. I know for a fact that a young man in the service is burdened with a greater responsibility than those who have never been in uniform could fathom, and at an age years ahead of his time.

I think it comes down to a matter of trust - we can trust the 18 year old soldier to clear a building, to 'safe' a UXO, to launch and recover aircraft, to protect our very freedoms - and yet we can't trust him to make his own choices and accept the consequences of those decisions?

Send them boys to Orange when they get back, drinks are on me regardless of age!

Oh, you're invited to.