Manafoild GasBlown out ??????

[thearmlesswonder]

Good day, I have a strange issue. My manifold gasket is blown up and tore the two rubber gaskets on the lip the block, front and rear. Plus where its bolted down on the rear and front, the manifold gasket bolts holes are completely stretched as a result. One bolt hole is torn open. All the bolt holes that go through the gasket on the heads are fine. See pictures. I know I stalled this correct, it was new and flat when it put it on.

I have not checked oil pressure, because the damn pos harbor freight hose is two hard to screw in. I attempted to locate a better product to purchase but none where found at the time. I will install one now that I took the manifold off.

So what "IF" I had oil Pressure? I know that's crazy, but what else could be causing crank case pressure ? piston rings are out, they were carefully cleaned and re-alined in the correct position; two of us both checked them each as there were put in. Didnt want to mess that up.... and do it again. I did install a 2ND oil separator in the rocker cover: drivers or LH side. ops..... My 97 had two, maybe i should not have done that ? When I removed it, it was submerged in oil..... but the other side was check and I could blow in it fine.

I just seemed like there was alot of oil in that line before the overhaul, that's why I added one. I removed it, but do not want to just hope that was the issue and have the Manifold gasket to blow out again. Should I just leave the oil cap loss ??? LOL :drool:

I am just not sure what to check or what the root of the issue could be or I'd go looking for it. Suggestion ? :ack::ack:



History:
The engine was over hauled a week or two back; July 2015. New crank and rod bearings. Complete gasket and seal kit for the overhaul, from the top to bottom of the engine, every thing. All Parts from Atlantic British. Trimming chain & gears, Water Pump, CPS, head studs and gasket, oil pump gears, plus others. All parts, hoses, and block was cleaned and checked. Followed two rave manuals on the rebuild.

 

[ubuntu]

Failed head gasket, combustion gasses blowing out the valley pan gasket.

 

[thearmlesswonder]

Failed head gasket, combustion gasses blowing out the valley pan gasket.

Good guess but I doubt that, they are brand new composite gaskets from Atlantic British. Both surfaces were redone and checked before putting them on. By the book on that one. Unless a manufacture defect was happened. vary unlikely tho.

 

[bendts]

Good guess but I doubt that, they are brand new composite gaskets from Atlantic British. Both surfaces were redone and checked before putting them on. By the book on that one. Unless a manufacture defect was happened. vary unlikely tho.

I doubt the oil pump could build that much pressure unless all your oil passages are clogged.

I agree that its a bad head gasket somewhere alone the top and right into the valley area - I just had a New $280 WiFi repeater fail after 2 days, why cant a head gasket.

What does it look like under the valley gasket?

 

[ubuntu]

Good guess but I doubt that, they are brand new composite gaskets from Atlantic British. Both surfaces were redone and checked before putting them on. By the book on that one. Unless a manufacture defect was happened. vary unlikely tho.

You wouldn't be the first person to wrinkle a head gasket while installing it. That valley pan gasket is telling a story you're not going to like. Do a compression or leak down test.
PS it's not a guess by the way, seen that one before a couple of times. There is only one thing that will blow a valley pan gasket out like that.

 

[discostew]

The only times I have seen the intake gasket do what your saying is with some sort of head bolt clamping type failure. Something like a thread failure because there was some coolant left in the hole. Reused head bolts. Maybe not torqued properly. Combustion gasses are leaking past the combustion ring near the cylinder and entering the crank case.

I have to agree with Ubuntu on this not being a guess. I have seen this a handfull of times and it has always turned out to be a clamping failure of a headgasket. sorry to say.

 

[thearmlesswonder]

I doubt the oil pump could build that much pressure unless all your oil passages are clogged.

I agree that its a bad head gasket somewhere alone the top and right into the valley area - I just had a New $280 WiFi repeater fail after 2 days, why cant a head gasket.

What does it look like under the valley gasket?

Thanks, I really do mean that. But ..... You can not compare the two and I have The certs and the degree to properly say that. In both fields .... I am not going to make this argument tho.

I did put oil UV dye in the oil and ran it. The only oil leaks are the gasket it self. No oil around the heads. Some said that the gasket is blown and going into the manifold gasket, Not sure if they know this; but the heads are above the manifold gasket. So that's not a possibility. No burning oil out the tail pipe also.

I may have caused this issues by adding the second oil separator on the rocker cover on the divers side. Some one did say I may have a piston misaligned; i'll drop the oil pan to check and report back.

 

[thearmlesswonder]

The only times I have seen the intake gasket do what your saying is with some sort of head bolt clamping type failure. Something like a thread failure because there was some coolant left in the hole. Reused head bolts. Maybe not torqued properly. Combustion gasses are leaking past the combustion ring near the cylinder and entering the crank case.

I have to agree with Ubuntu on this not being a guess. I have seen this a handfull of times and it has always turned out to be a clamping failure of a head gasket. sorry to say.

I am not so sure about that, the engine was cleaned and cleaned and cleaned. all the holes were checked and rechecked. When I put the ARP head studs in, I used an allen socket to put them all the way down, then backed them out, then screwed them in by hand lightly; like the directions call for. Used the Assembly grease too.

The head gaskets were installed correctly and they were new composite ones. Since studs stick up, they provide a guided for the head to slide down nicely. They were not pinched, you would have to be really really a newb to mess it up. any who, had my ASE guy check all me work.

I thank you guys for your thoughts, truly. I Do have a leak down kit and will give t a shoot. Jot down the results and share them soon.

 

[Maximumwarp]

When I put the ARP head studs in...

There we go...what'd you torque the nuts to, out of curiosity?

 

[ubuntu]

Some said that the gasket is blown and going into the manifold gasket, Not sure if they know this; but the heads are above the manifold gasket.

Erm... look where the cylinder head mates with the engine block. That's BELOW the valley pan gasket init? I don't need a degree or certs to prove that one :banghead:

Maybe you would rather hear that your oil pump is putting out excessive oil pressure and blowing the gasket :rofl:

Have you done a compression test yet?

 

[mbrummal]

Bla bla bla bla.

I did put oil UV dye in the oil and ran it. The only oil leaks are the gasket it self. No oil around the heads. ....

Oil did not do this.

 

[group captain mandrake]

You say the engine was overhauled in July. Why? Was it doing anything abnormal that led you to overhaul it?

 

[bendts]

Thanks, I really do mean that. But ..... You can not compare the two and I have The certs and the degree to properly say that. In both fields .... I am not going to make this argument tho.

Just saying that Things Fail - new or not.

 

[seventyfive]

For a head gasket to blow, the valley pan gasket out like that, it shouldve sounded like an exhaust leak.

Did you hear any noise before the valley pan blew out?

I dont think you understand the basics, regarding crank case ventilation. The intake manifold vacuum pulls positive crank case gas from the bottom end into the manifold...only way to get enough positive pressure to blow that valley pan gasket out is on high compression 10,000 rpm drag car over revving it before the pistons swell up.

HOWEVER if the little breather hose is completely clogged up the positive pressure has nowhere to go BUT the valley pan. You said you added another breather hose, which will help pull more gas into the intake manifold.

IF you did add another breather hose did you add an orifice into that breather hose? If you did not add an orifice that means you were pulling excessive volume, of vacuum, at idle and cruise WHICH should have made a whistling noise at idle....until you crack the oil filler cap to allow the crank case to equalize.

The information you provided contradicts your assumption. Adding another breather will increase negative pressure not positive.

 

[seventyfive]

post a picture of the extra breather hose you installed.

 

[discostew]

For a head gasket to blow, the valley pan gasket out like that, it shouldve sounded like an exhaust leak.

Did you hear any noise before the valley pan blew out?

I dont think you understand the basics, regarding crank case ventilation. The intake manifold vacuum pulls positive crank case gas from the bottom end into the manifold...only way to get enough positive pressure to blow that valley pan gasket out is on high compression 10,000 rpm drag car over revving it before the pistons swell up.

HOWEVER if the little breather hose is completely clogged up the positive pressure has nowhere to go BUT the valley pan. You said you added another breather hose, which will help pull more gas into the intake manifold.

IF you did add another breather hose did you add an orifice into that breather hose? If you did not add an orifice that means you were pulling excessive volume, of vacuum, at idle and cruise WHICH should have made a whistling noise at idle....until you crack the oil filler cap to allow the crank case to equalize.

The information you provided contradicts your assumption. Adding another breather will increase negative pressure not positive.

Nope, The times I have seen that there was never any noise that I was able to notice. I've seen it maybe 3 times and 2 of those times it was threads pulled out of the block. 3rd one never got fixed so who knows about that one. It's strange but true.

 

[ubuntu]

post a picture of the extra breather hose you installed.

There is a breather hose on each valve cover, there is only one oil separator installed on the passenger side valve cover. I think he means he installed an oil separator in each valve cover.

 

[seventyfive]

Nope, The times I have seen that there was never any noise that I was able to notice. I've seen it maybe 3 times and 2 of those times it was threads pulled out of the block. 3rd one never got fixed so who knows about that one. It's strange but true.

i dont doubt it, but ive never seen a valley pan get punched up like that.

I guess the question is, did the old head gaskets blow out to the valley pan. Ive seen one head gasket blow out to the valley pan, it burned a track that wouldve needed the block decked. So if the old head gasket(s) blew out like that and the block was just cleaned i could definitely understand the head gasket not compressing properly.

 

[seventyfive]

There is a breather hose on each valve cover, there is only one oil separator installed on the passenger side valve cover. I think he means he installed an oil separator in each valve cover.

I know there are two breathers....but I honestly can not understand his post. I read it several times, but it is horrible grammar.

If you are interpreting it properly and he in fact has TWO of those shitty oil separators per breather hose then that could very well be his problem. But until he has it buttoned back up, we don't know. If he buttons it back up he should be able to fire it up and run it with the oil cap unscrewed. Pull the cap off and it should have some vacuum at first, but if there is too much blockage it should pop the cap off.

On bmw's, when the crank case vent gets blocked up (usually in the freezing temperatures) it will blow the valve cover out or push oil into the cylinders and cause a smoke screen.

Now that I think about it, if all the gaskets are new and tight and the breathers are completely or almost completely blocked that could definitely blow that valley pan gasket out.

 

[seventyfive]

One of my bmw's smoke screened last winter when my catch can froze up! It just so happened that i replaced the valve cover gasket set a week before the can froze up so instead of blowing the valve cover gasket out it pushed oil into the cylinders. Pulled the plugs, sucked the oil out, and put new plugs in.

So if you have a catch can on any of your vehicles be sure to check it very frequent in the freezing months.