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D Chapman
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DiscoDino
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D Chapman said:
3.321 first gear x 3.54 diffs x 5.95 Low Ratio = 70:1
With my 4.88 diffs I'll be running at 96:1 which is sweet
The beauty is that now the Low and High choices will not overlap (1st H with 3rd L, etc...)...
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D Chapman
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70:1 seems pretty good, with an Automatic transmission. I wonder how low you could go with an automatic before netural would be needed to stop???
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DiscoDino
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DiscoDino
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Electro Gremlin said:
10k? No fucking way.
LOL, I think you VASTLY over estimate the number of people wheeling Disco/Defender/RRC in the US. I say he is likely to sell 100-200 total in the US over the coarse of many years.
Maybe I am missing other mass market 4x4 vehicles withe the 230 in the US?
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Electro Gremlin
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bri said:
So, I take it you bought the Maxi Drive crawler gear for $2000? So sorry...
Of course, at $2000 a pop for gear redux, there aren't a whole lot of people anywhere who are going to buy them for a LR, especially when such parts for Jeeps and Toyotas are so much cheaper. You get it down to @ $1,000 (like Ashcroft is) and a whole lot more folks will buy them and the news will spread and they'll become more popular. Of course, if you want to pay $2000 for a couple of gears for the "exclusivity" of it, go right ahead.
230 Land Rovers total in the US? I think you might check your sales figures from 1987-2004 -- there are a few more than that on the road.
Norm
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D Chapman
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Yea, the 1987-1993 Rovers are everywhere in the US. What are you thinking, Bri?Electro Gremlin said:
If I could get the redux gears for <1000.00, I would get a set. But, as it seems now, they are over 1300-1400.00. That's still a little silly, to me.
Ask EE, RTE, BP, AB, RN, GBR, Rovertracks... how many ARB, TT, Detroits *for* *rovers* that they have sold, then get an idea for how little the market really is. Maybe a better judge would be how many 4.11 have been sold. I would betcha that there have not been 10k sets of 4.11 sold for rovers for all years since they were imported to the US.
10k sets in the first year as mentioned is silly. That would be 193 sets per week, 28 per day-- AS IF!
I believe that offroad rover community is no where near that size. Another way to help visualize this is with 10k in the first year you would have an average of 200 rovers per state with 49% gear reduction. Again hard for me to imagine.
Think about it... do you really think that there are 10k rovers out there wheeling that are in need tof 49% gear reduction? I'd be amazed.
Think about all the people on dweb, pirate lr BBS, and then those that do not participate, but do do SERIOUS trails. That is who is going to buy this. Your mall crawler ocassional joe won't buy them even if they were $5.
The people building them know that the market is TINY and they are priced accordingly.
IMO, maybe I am wrong, but that is what I was thinking.
10k sets in the first year as mentioned is silly. That would be 193 sets per week, 28 per day-- AS IF!
I believe that offroad rover community is no where near that size. Another way to help visualize this is with 10k in the first year you would have an average of 200 rovers per state with 49% gear reduction. Again hard for me to imagine.
Think about it... do you really think that there are 10k rovers out there wheeling that are in need tof 49% gear reduction? I'd be amazed.
Think about all the people on dweb, pirate lr BBS, and then those that do not participate, but do do SERIOUS trails. That is who is going to buy this. Your mall crawler ocassional joe won't buy them even if they were $5.
The people building them know that the market is TINY and they are priced accordingly.
IMO, maybe I am wrong, but that is what I was thinking.
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Electro Gremlin
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Well, gee, by the same token are there 10,000 people in this country truly "in need" of a Land Rover or a Jeep? These are FUN vehicles and a 80% low gear reduction would be MORE FUN to have.
Half the Jeeps I see are heavily modified, not because they "need" to be, but because their owners "want" them to be. The thing is, Jeep parts are a hell of a lot cheaper than Rover parts, so you don't see nearly as many modified Rovers. The big limiting factor is cost -- hardly anybody wants to spend $2000 on a set of 30% reduction low gears. But if they got down to $500, everybody would want them. That's why I'm glad Ashcroft is competing against Maxidrive with an 80% reduction at > $1300.
Which would you rather have -- a $2000 30% reduction or a $1300 80% reduction? More bang for the buck is always better! Once these Ashcroft kits get into the market, Maxidrive will have to drop their price way below $1300 for their kit to compete. Would I buy a Ashcroft kit? I'm very tempted, especially 'cause my LT 230 needs to be rebuilt anyway. It may well be my next major purchase after a DUI distributor. A 30% reduction would be good enough for me, but not for anything near $2000.
Norm
Half the Jeeps I see are heavily modified, not because they "need" to be, but because their owners "want" them to be. The thing is, Jeep parts are a hell of a lot cheaper than Rover parts, so you don't see nearly as many modified Rovers. The big limiting factor is cost -- hardly anybody wants to spend $2000 on a set of 30% reduction low gears. But if they got down to $500, everybody would want them. That's why I'm glad Ashcroft is competing against Maxidrive with an 80% reduction at > $1300.
Which would you rather have -- a $2000 30% reduction or a $1300 80% reduction? More bang for the buck is always better! Once these Ashcroft kits get into the market, Maxidrive will have to drop their price way below $1300 for their kit to compete. Would I buy a Ashcroft kit? I'm very tempted, especially 'cause my LT 230 needs to be rebuilt anyway. It may well be my next major purchase after a DUI distributor. A 30% reduction would be good enough for me, but not for anything near $2000.
Norm
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ShaunP
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Norm the Maxi's are not $2k they are $1300 US here for the 49% and about $1100 US for the 30% the price is similar. I hear tell Maxi also have some lower ones in the pipe. For some reason something that you could send in the post for a few bucks ends up costing you an extra $700 by the time it getts to the US, go figure, and that's the walk in off the street price, I imagine dealers would get them cheaper. I still don't reckon you'd sell many even if they were $100 I don't need any 30% ones let alone 80% f**k me that's pretty low, no good driving up the beach, the car would just burry it's self. Most Oz cars do beach and outback work which really doesn't warrent way low gearing. I seldom get below low 3rd on the beach even towing a boat or camper. I got an entire front space frame for an XKE jag sent here from the UK for way less than $700 shiping and tax and it was in a way bigger box than 2 gears Also got an entire exhaust system for my S type Jag shipped from the UK for about $150 frieght and tax again a big heavy box. Seems to me that someone else is making some money on this stuff.
Sounds like you really want a jeep norm. Have at it all the cheap parts you need. Either bite the bullet and get your gear reduction for your rover or quit bitchin' about the price, because the price will likely not come down in the near future. The people selling these very few parts for rovers are doing us a favor with an off the shelf modification. I'd rather have them make money and continue selling and building new products than going under thinking they will sell 10k cheap parts.
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DiscoDino
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Hey...
The option for Reduction is here, whether Ash. or MD...its not for EVERYONE...so whomever thinks its good, GREAT, and whomever thinks its bad, GREAT...
Rovers have their positives...don't forget that Marlin can't ship Crawlers left right and center across the globe, but Ash. & MD can and are...Drive what you want, the way you want, & modify it the way you want...simple...
The option for Reduction is here, whether Ash. or MD...its not for EVERYONE...so whomever thinks its good, GREAT, and whomever thinks its bad, GREAT...
Rovers have their positives...don't forget that Marlin can't ship Crawlers left right and center across the globe, but Ash. & MD can and are...Drive what you want, the way you want, & modify it the way you want...simple...
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Electro Gremlin
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Fine with me, I just don't understand why some folks get their panties in a wad over the fact Ashcroft is coming out with more gear redux for less money -- you'd think people would be happy about that (I am). I guess you'd have to have bought a $2000 gear set or be a vendor of such with gears on the shelf collecting dust to get upset about it.
---Norm
PS: Nobody's "doing me a favor" by charging $2,000.00 for two straight cut gears -- either they're making a hell of a profit or they're incredibly inefficient, especially when I can get 4 helical gears and twice the redux for less than $1,300.00. I don't need those kind of favors.
---Norm
PS: Nobody's "doing me a favor" by charging $2,000.00 for two straight cut gears -- either they're making a hell of a profit or they're incredibly inefficient, especially when I can get 4 helical gears and twice the redux for less than $1,300.00. I don't need those kind of favors.
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ShaunP
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Norm Maxi drive don't charge $2k US for them, the US distributor does. The Ashcroft price is at their door. The price is the same pretty much at the supplier and now you can choose between 30% 49% , 80% and what ever the next size Mal brings out is. I don't think it's about if the 80% ones give more redux for the same money if you can't use 80% it would be silly to fitt them because they seem better value. Hell I'm for value I always buy XXXX beer 30 packs on sale cause you get a 6 pack for free but it's not the same. Depends what you use the truck for, If I fitted some 80% to my car it would dig it's self to China next time I went to Fraser island or the Great sandy national park, I can't use them. I can't see myself buying any soon but if I did I would get 30%,because that would be the best option for my usage, anything more would make my truck worse at what I use it for not better. Maybe it's not about competition for Maxi drive but for their distributors in the US, but I guess if they are prepared to stock, import and support what is really low volume stuff that's that.
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Electro Gremlin
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Well, one problem is that Maxidrive absolutely will not sell it to me direct -- got to go through GBR, which tacks on an additional $700 US. No way around that.
Even if I could get around that, an 80% redux is "mo' bettah" than a 30% or 49% redux at about the same price. According to Ashcroft, their gear set leaves no overlap between hi and lo ratios. I'm sure I can find some use for those extra low gears...
Norm
Even if I could get around that, an 80% redux is "mo' bettah" than a 30% or 49% redux at about the same price. According to Ashcroft, their gear set leaves no overlap between hi and lo ratios. I'm sure I can find some use for those extra low gears...
Norm
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ShaunP
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Fair enough, so does GBR charge the exchange deposit on top of the $700 or is that incuded in the $700. For that sort of money I reckon I could drive in to MR and drive out tomorrow with the gears fitted and all new bearing in the box, that's if I was feeling lazy of course.
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D Chapman
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Norm,
You may try www.4x4ag.com
I'm not sure what the exchange rate is now, I'm too lazy to look. But, I think it's, more or less, double...So, your not getting ripped off at 1400.00US, it's just a high priced item here.
I would 'rather' have a 3-speed transfer case though.....
You may try www.4x4ag.com
I'm not sure what the exchange rate is now, I'm too lazy to look. But, I think it's, more or less, double...So, your not getting ripped off at 1400.00US, it's just a high priced item here.
I would 'rather' have a 3-speed transfer case though.....
bri said:
This is dead on. Just had this conversation w/ someone yesterday. Simple supply/demand. Why are Heep parts cheaper? Because there's much more of a market. If I open an LR aftermarket shop today, I've got the same start-up costs as a comparable Heeper shop, but I go into it knowing I'm going to sell far fewer wigits,,, hence my cost is higher, whether it's gears, bumpers, or whatever.