miami assualt rifle shooting

stolenheron

Well-known member
May 1, 2008
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Hattiesburg, MS
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/01/24/miami.shooting/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

i guess some punk decided to spray a crowd of people on a street corner in miami with an AK47. The crime itself is horrendous, but the publicity is more focused on the fact that he used an assault rifle. I don't own an assault rifle, nor do I plan on owning one. However, i don't feel that they should be banned again, there are plenty of responsible gun owners out there who should be allowed to own such a weapon. but its pricks like this running around which can ruin a fun hobby for millions of gun owners. I figured there would be some opinions on this board about assault rifles and I was wondering what some of my fellow LR owners think.

I don't want to see ARs banned again, but I wouldn't be against a registration/owner limitations similar to what is currently being applied to handguns i.e. 21+, 3 day waiting period, mandatory registration, etc.

Also...if you happen to be from south florida like I am and you hear anything about this shooting, let the cops know.
 

az_max

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Apr 22, 2005
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We like to call them "Semi-Automatic Rifles". "Assault Rifles" is a term used by the media to vilify our weapons.

Unless it's a fully auto rifle, then it's a Machine Gun. And those are banned by the 1934 Firearms act.
 

stolenheron

Well-known member
May 1, 2008
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Hattiesburg, MS
well, i'd say semi-auto rifles is pushing it. i own 4 semi-auto rifles, all of which are rimfire .22. there has got to be a different classification for a weapon such as an AR, however, i must say the term "assault" gives an unnecessary negative connotation. even the word "tactical" sounds better than assault.
 

JMK

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2004
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Ogden, UT
Humm Must have been an ordinary gun owning citizen... Well need more gun control to keep this from happening again...
 

sean

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Sep 28, 2004
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JMK said:
Humm Must have been an ordinary gun owning citizen... Well need more gun control to keep this from happening again...

Yes, we need to ban legal guns so no law abiding citizens will be able to shoot the morons when they go on a killing spree. Maybe we could create gun free zones to give them a better chance of killing people and not getting hurt themselves. :banghead:
 

Andrew Homan

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Jun 7, 2004
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Alaska
az_max said:
We like to call them "Semi-Automatic Rifles". "Assault Rifles" is a term used by the media to vilify our weapons.

Unless it's a fully auto rifle, then it's a Machine Gun. And those are banned by the 1934 Firearms act.

I may be wrong here but didn't the Nazis coin the term assault rifle? And didn't a certain Russian tank commander invent the AK?

A machine gun is crew served and belt fed. A sub machine gun is usually in pistol caliber. A full auto rifle is just that a full auto rifle. BAR FN FAL ect. A m4 is more of a carbine rifle that may or may not be full auto.

Everyone knows the most dangerous weapon is bolt action and in .308, 300 win mag or .338 Lapua:D
 

sean

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Sep 28, 2004
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Andrew Homan said:
I may be wrong here but didn't the Nazis coin the term assault rifle? And didn't a certain Russian tank commander invent the AK?

A machine gun is crew served and belt fed. A sub machine gun is usually in pistol caliber. A full auto rifle is just that a full auto rifle. BAR FN FAL ect. A m4 is more of a carbine rifle that may or may not be full auto.

Everyone knows the most dangerous weapon is bolt action and in .308, 300 win mag or .338 Lapua:D


No the first assault rifle was the Avtomat Fedorova a early russian design.
The assault rifle is designed to be a carbine with a mid-low power round that can be easily handled in full auto.

I prefer to call my Fusil Automatique Legers Main Battle rifles like the Garands.

Yes, one well placed shot beats pray and spray most of the time.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
Assault rifle has no value as terminology. It was defined by people who know little of the subject, and was defined loosely enough to be used to identify anything they don't like. What they defined was meant to be inflammatory, and it was.

An AR 15 is little different than any other autoloading rifle. In many respects, chamber included, it is inferior. An AK 47 is very similar. What people envision when they hear it, and the useless crap we actually buy are two different things entirely.

Both are inferior in ballistics to the hunting rifles that nobody is afraid of.

I've got a flintlock over here that fires a .68 caliber bullet, that is considered perfectly safe, to the point of no paperwork at all. I've also got a single action army that most never consider. There is a lever action Winchester as well, again, considered fairly safe by most. The P32 is considered cute. The rest are equally ignored. Geez, I just realized how many I actually have...

But god help me if I pull out the AP9. It is a slightly better made copy of the Tec 9. It looks all kinds of mean. It fires a normal 9mm round, it is semi-auto, not very reliable, and not nearly as easy to use as the single action or as accurate.

If someone has a look at it though, they go all green with worry. That's why I bought it, actually. It is great education for people. This weapon does nothing more than any other that I have. As a matter of fact, it is much less effective than the others.

This, however, is considered an assault weapon, and it's previous incarnation was named in the ban.

The thing is a JOKE. Almost useless. It is a massive chunk of metal and I paid only 200 bucks for it, less than my plastic, pocket-sized Kel Tec even. Nobody wants the damn things, because a regular old pistol is far superior.

Let someone decide to crusade against firearms, though, and this is the first one they will hold up to scare everyone into believing them.

An assault weapon is, according to the media, any weapon that looks dangerous and was used to harm someone.

Oh, how about the nasty "black rifle"? Put one in any soldier's hands and all he does is bitch about it. Everyone wants something different. The problem is, we are all so damn used to it, that we just have to have one. You leave the military, you buy an AR, it is as simple as that. I swore I would never own one of them.

They are the dirtiest running firearm in the world, they have to be cleaned constantly, lubed repeatedly, and they are incredibly picky about ammunition and magazines. Cleaning isn't quick, either, with all the carbon blowing right back into every moving part of the firearm every time you pull the trigger. They are a royal pain in the ass, but we are all used to them.

Uncle Sam drilled them into our heads so deep we can maintain them in our sleep.

So, I as well bought one of the little buggers. 5.56, .223, think about those numbers. Tiny bullets. A .45 colt is almost as big as this round, brass and all, and that goes in a handgun. My old fashioned single action, to be precise.

Why did I buy it? I'm still asking myself that question. I guess I just don't want anyone telling me I can't have one. The funny thing is, a few months back, I was cursing about all the idiots who were going to buy those stupid ARs for the same reason.

They are NO more dangerous than any other autoloading rifle. All they do is look mean and malfunction more frequently.

I have a scar on my right arm from being stabbed by a pencil, and three on my left from being stabbed by knives, one of my own doing... (hanging drapes, believe it or not... They were particularly nasty drapes, though, very dangerous), and one on either leg as well, as well as one on my ankle. I've got a scar on my left leg from an arrow, and plenty of interesting X-rays from fists and feet, and blunt objects. Hell, I've even been poisoned.

Aside from one drunken hunter and a dickweed with a pea-shooter (Neither counts, as I was not seriously injured. By the way, be careful in the woods during hunting season, even if you aren't hunting), nobody has EVER managed to hit me with a bullet.

What does that tell me? It tells me that I have more to worry about than guns. It tells me that people are bastards, and no matter WHAT they have in their hand, odds are they will attempt to injure me with it. Gun or no gun, if someone wants to hurt you badly enough to pay the price for it, they are going to do just that.

And odds are, if they choose to use a gun, it will not be an "assault" weapon.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

Blue

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2004
10,081
887
AZ
We need more laws so this can't happen again. When I get to congress I'm going to propose a bill that makes breaking the law illegal.
 

95.D1.Rick

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Apr 20, 2004
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Cumberland Co., ME
I'm curious how they ID'd the rifle as an AK, and confidently reported the same. They report several times "AK-47" Just seems kinda strange a bunch of high schoolers can ID an AK so easily. Truth is any semi-automatic rifle, or handgun would have been the same result. I bet there are quite a few people there who knew thre shooter, and exactly why he was there. No motive my ass.
 

DiscoS2

Well-known member
az_max said:
Unless it's a fully auto rifle, then it's a Machine Gun. And those are banned by the 1934 Firearms act.

Check your facts. full-auto machine guns are still legal to own and operate, both federally and almost in every state. The 1934 act just provided for a $200 tax to be paid on the transfer of ownership of a full-auto firearm. Failure to pay that tax was/is a huge crime. Short-barreled rifles, suppressors ("silencers") and other devices are all still legal, but fall under that tax.

In fact during the 1994 "Assault Weapons Ban," semi-auto "evil looking guns" were banned, but a person could still buy and own a full-auto M16. The assault weapons ban was just smoke & mirrors, feel-good legislation.
 

antichrist

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Sep 7, 2004
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Atlanta, GA
"It was like a war zone,"

I'm sure if it were really like a war zone several someones would have been returning fire and taken the person down.
 

az_max

1
Apr 22, 2005
7,463
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DiscoS2 said:
Check your facts. full-auto machine guns are still legal to own and operate, both federally and almost in every state. The 1934 act just provided for a $200 tax to be paid on the transfer of ownership of a full-auto firearm. Failure to pay that tax was/is a huge crime. Short-barreled rifles, suppressors ("silencers") and other devices are all still legal, but fall under that tax.

In fact during the 1994 "Assault Weapons Ban," semi-auto "evil looking guns" were banned, but a person could still buy and own a full-auto M16. The assault weapons ban was just smoke & mirrors, feel-good legislation.

Yes, I should have used 'controlled' rather than 'banned'. I am working on getting my class 3 paperwork together, but my first step is to come up with $14,000 for a weapon.

I got my AR-15 during the ban period. I got everything I wanted. Didn't need a bayonett, got a swedged-on compensator and fixed stock. All the mags I got are pre-ban, 30rd. I had the 100rd but it jams way to often, so I sold it.
 

stolenheron

Well-known member
May 1, 2008
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Hattiesburg, MS
you can still own a full auto weapon, you need to have the proper federal firearms license for the weapon. its not cheap.

i put this article on several forums and its been unanimous that ARs are not the problem. The problem lies with the irresponsible and often illegal owners that use them in illegal ways.... you rarely see a registered firearm used by the proper registered owner in a crime.
 

p m

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Apr 19, 2004
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az_max said:
We like to call them "Semi-Automatic Rifles". "Assault Rifles" is a term used by the media to vilify our weapons.

Unless it's a fully auto rifle, then it's a Machine Gun. And those are banned by the 1934 Firearms act.
Personally, I have not heard of an AK-47 that is not fully automatic.
It was a skill we had to master - to let loose only two or three rounds.

There is absolutely no reason for an AK-47 to be in a civilian's hands. Mind it, I am not a tiny bit in favor of any kind of gun control, but it _is_ an assault weapon, a weapon which is difficult to use in one's defense.

Edit: Kennith beat me to it - that is, no use for auto-loading rifle when you actually need to aim and shoot something/somebody.
 
Last edited:

GregH

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Apr 24, 2004
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p m said:
Personally, I have not heard of an AK-47 that is not fully automatic.
It was a skill we had to master - to let loose only two or three rounds.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/Search.aspx?T=AK

p m said:
Mind it, I am not a tiny bit in favor of any kind of gun control, but it _is_ an assault weapon, a weapon which is difficult to use in one's defense.

Edit: Kennith beat me to it - that is, no use for auto-loading rifle when you actually need to aim and shoot something/somebody.

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/featured_rifles/ar15zum_030207/
 

stolenheron

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May 1, 2008
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Hattiesburg, MS
there are plenty of different AK models in the US for sale non of which are fully automatic. I have been a total gun range whore for the past few months since i haven't been willing to spend on the money on anything else, and everytime I go there are multiple AKs or AR15s. all of which are ONLY semi auto.
 

kennith

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Apr 22, 2004
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North Carolina
p m said:
Personally, I have not heard of an AK-47 that is not fully automatic.
It was a skill we had to master - to let loose only two or three rounds.

There is absolutely no reason for an AK-47 to be in a civilian's hands. Mind it, I am not a tiny bit in favor of any kind of gun control, but it _is_ an assault weapon, a weapon which is difficult to use in one's defense.

Edit: Kennith beat me to it - that is, no use for auto-loading rifle when you actually need to aim and shoot something/somebody.

They are here, but what people miss, is the fact hat they are not the same as the AKs you used to fire. They are quite different from their full-auto counterparts. Think of them as popular replicas of the real thing. Most of them are junk, worn out, and badly made. They still work decently enough, but they have no benefit over any other semi-auto rifle.

I don't own one, but I have fired several, and they are not impressive at all. Just another semi-auto rifle, like any Ruger or Remington. The only difference is they happen to look like an AK, and fire a less effective round.

Actually, it is just like the Tec 9. They look mean, but under all the bodywork is the same gun that farmer down the road uses to shoot rats and other pests.

To clarify, auto-loading means the firearm chambers the next round for you, like a 1911, or a Glock, or any other semi-auto. Auto loading is sort of the proper term for that. It does not fire the next round, you have to do that yourself.

Automatic firing is what people are thinking of. That is a machine gun, being that it not only loads the next round, but also fires it, without further input from the operator. Furthermore, a machine gun generally fires from the open bolt, and it's sole purpose is automatic fire. Therefore, it is generally a crew-served weapon.

A rifle that features selectable fire, from semi-auto, to burst fire or fully automatic, is an assault rifle, so called, because during the dynamic situations in an actual assault, it's varied rates of fire may be useful.

A rifle that is only fully automatic is an automatic rifle.

A machine gun, select fire or not, that fires pistol caliber rounds, and utilized a shoulder stock assembly, is a sub-machine gun.

A machine pistol is a sub-machine gun designed to be aimed and fired without a shoulder stock.

You also have single action firearms, meaning you must charge the hammer/firing pin yourself before each shot. On some auto-loading pistols, a single action trigger feel is achieved by having the mechanism for chambering the next round charge the bits upon it's recoil. Double action firearms charge the hammer/firing pin as the trigger is pulled, which leads to a heavier trigger.

To bring things to the real world again, a popular pistol is the 1911. This is a single action, auto loading firearm. A Glock is a double action auto-loading firearm.

I expect you refer to automatic rifles, which I agree, are useless unless you are traveling with several other people who are not using automatic weapons. An assault rifle is useful, as it's selectable fire ability allows single shots to be fired without a waste of ammunition. Still, all of these are OBSCENELY expensive.

It is more than a 200 dollar tax, as well. The firearm itself is thousands upon thousands of dollars, and pretty much everyone that matters knows it's whole history. There is paperwork, the local LEO has to essentially give you permission to own one, and you have to adhere to standards of ownership that are above and beyond what you would normally have to adhere to while owning a firearm. You have to be fingerprinted as well.

There aren't many of these on the street. The ones that are on the street don't come from law abiding gun store owners. The people that properly own them don't take very many risks with them, either, as they are expensive, and the feds already have their number.

Many illegal guns come from the same place illegal immigrants do... The back of a trunk that was driven across a border.

I don't like automatic weapons. They aren't very useful in many real-world situations. This is why the military only uses them where their true benefits can be realized.

I'd have one in my collection just for kicks, but I am not keen on paying the massive price to get hold of one, and going through all the nonsense. I don't find them useful for my purposes, anyway, and I don't see paying the premium for a range-queen that nobody will let me shoot around here anyway.

Many people that buy them buy them for fun. Some buy them to be prepared for things. Very few who are planning to commit a crime go out of their way to get involved with automatic weapons, as it is too risky. They certainly wouldn't buy one legally, unless they are flat out nuts, and then the LEO would deny them the purchase of one.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

stolenheron

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May 1, 2008
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Hattiesburg, MS
kennith said:
Most of them are junk, worn out, and badly made. They still work decently enough, but they have no benefit over any other semi-auto rifle.

definetly true. i've seen some romanian models go for as cheap as $150 and still nearly "brand new". the beater ruger 10/22 I recent picked up looked like a show gun in comparison but you can't beat the fact that the AK was alot of cheap firepower regardless of mode of fire.