New Computer

[kennith]

Well, this tired rig is now getting annoying.

All of my personal "new" stuff is built from parts that popped burning in other systems. I just repair them as best as possible and deal with it. Well, I'm down to one working free USB port now, and even the keyboard port is on the fritz. I'm not getting in there again. Too twitchy to do that tiny stuff now, anyway.

AM4 has been out a while now, and X570 seemed like a good place to step in the new ecosystem. It supports anything I'll be using in the foreseeable future, and best to buy it now while commodities are in a dip for some reason, because those tariffs obviously affect IC value directly. Whatever. I knew that and still support it.

Here's what I bought. All new this time:

1: Ryzen 9 3900X
2: Fractal Design Define XL R2 (temporary, just to get in and out quickly)
3: Asus ROG Crosshair Hero VIII (it's not "just" a motherboard; choose carefully so it's relevant for a long time. This is the backbone of the entire system...)
4: Compatible Gskill RGB RAM (32gb 16X2)
5: Be quiet! Silent Wings 3 fans (fucking high quality as hell; they look cheap in pictures, but they are NICE in person)
6: Samsung Pro M.2 drives (two on the motherboard; 512 Boot and 1TB program/editing cache)
7: WD Velociraptor (long-term backup and photo storage)
8: Corsair Force GT 512GB SSD (for games)
9: DVD Burner and Blu Ray burner for quick authoring
10: 5.25" Combination card reader and USB hub

I'll probably drop a hot swap bay in the front, as well; but no need to do that just yet. I'm also reusing my EVGA GTX 1080 FTW and Corsair AX850 PSU. I might pick up another matching 1080 off of Ebay or something for added VRAM; but not just yet.

The final case will be a heavily modified Lian Li A71F. They don't flow well from the factory, but James Dyson would like the way I handle airflow. Buffeting is a no-go.

I kind of suck at creating my own everyday content, but when it comes to editing, Foley (way more fun than it looks), grading, and all that I have a lot of fun. Not bad with actual filming when I have something to film, but I don't get enough practice. I'm remastering a short film someone else made now, though, and damned if I can't wait to see what that hardware does in comparison with my FX8350 and SATA drives.

So, it's a bit of a Christmas present for myself, eliminating a severe annoyance, and a way to speed up this damnable 4K stuff. That's alarmingly more taxing than 1080p.

It's also the first "new" computer I've ever built for myself. I'm always building really nice rigs, but they never end up parked beside my own desk.

Heh. I'm going to go to town on that case. That's why I bought the Fractal Design. I needed the machine running, but I wanted to do a nice job on the case. I don't want to rush it, so I figured best to slap it together in something else for the time being, that's easy to pull apart. Fractal is good for that.

I just wish this one had swappable front door hinges; their others do. For the life of me I can't figure out why their stuff opens to the left. Who has the computer on the left?

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[kennith]

Well, it's up and running temporarily while I install things and update. First post on the new rig.

Until I program those ARGB features, it's looking like Chinese New Year in Mexico City on the Forth of July.

It'll have a pale, undetermined color (maybe a soft white) light wash with illuminated fuchsia accents when I get it done.

The two Fractal fans that were included are currently louder than the four Be quiet! fans I've installed. I didn't get them for their quiet performance, but because I thought the design was clever. I've now ordered three more to finish the job because I like them so much.

Historically, I've never deviated from Lian Li fans, aside from more secure, industrial, or server/workstation builds; which typically go metal or at least Noctua.
The Lian Li units just plain last forever (fucking decades), and in a machine like that, you're cutting expense where it doesn't really matter; but I wanted to try something different, here; since it's meant to be a bit more fun. Depending upon how they hold up to testing, I may begin to integrate these into more critical builds.

I'll get a few extras to run accelerated adverse environment tests. Hopefully the durability matches the build quality.

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[brian4d]

You're going to SLI two 1080 TI's? Seems like an overkill, you doing VR?

Fuckit, just get the RTX. Tis the season, right?

 

[kennith]

You're going to SLI two 1080 TI's? Seems like an overkill, you doing VR?

Fuckit, just get the RTX. Tis the season, right?

I've got a Vive, and it's actually really useful. I should have taken lab notes, because I've used it to reduce motion sickness after my last concussion and I haven't seen any studies related to that at this time.

That ran fine on my 980 Ti and FX8350, though. VR is demanding, but not nearly as demanding as people suggest. The programs are usually pretty well optimized.

The reason I might run dual 1080s is Davinci Resolve. I'm given to understand that it benefits from increased VRAM. My 1080 has 8gb, which is excessive for gaming and I suppose competent in regard to 4K editing; but if that program uses the GPU as much as people say it does (haven't bothered to check yet, because I wasn't intending to do anything about it) the boost in capacity should be useful.

I'd like to have an RTX for ray-tracing in games, but beyond VRAM that's about the only useful thing to me. I could run Just Cause 3 at 3440X1440 with deep color and the options maxed out with my old setup. ION Fury is what I'm playing until Doom Eternal is released, and that's using an engine from 1996. Doom Eternal should be easy to run; ID stuff always is.

Resolve may be able to use two GPUs. If it's genuinely set up for that, twin 1080s will handily beat out a single RTX; and at only $400 on Ebay or so versus $1,200 or so anywhere for something with a back plate, which I consider mandatory now. If it can't use both GPUs with proper performance scaling, I'll have to check out some benchmarks; which are about as reliable as political statistics these days.

Workstation stuff gets funny like that. I've never had to build a Resolve machine for anyone before, which baffles me, because it's outstanding. That being the case, I've got to spend some time figuring out what it likes and what it just can't use. What's on the "box" isn't always the best solution.

With the 6K files that new Blackmagic camera cranks out, though... I certainly noticed the performance hit. Holy crap that's tough on a system. I almost went Threadripper, but the system would have cost more than I was willing to spend. I do have a Rover to repair and a car to buy, after all. I wasn't about to spend my future ventilated seat package on computer parts.

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[brian4d]

All really cool. I'm running a 1060M with 6gb. Mid-setting for X-Plane 11, you want demand look no further than flight simming. You seen the new MS FS? Your machine would work it semi-well.

 

[brian4d]

this was a year ago but this is my flying the Bush flying the Goose in X-Plane 11

edit, scratch that, think it was DC. Avoiding that traffic. ha!

 

[kennith]

It's about time they released a new Microsoft Flight Simulator. That looks outstanding, and I'm glad they're saying "fuck your hardware". Don't cater to the lowest in that field. Push limits. It had better support Crossfire and SLI, from the looks of it; because I'd want to run that on three X34s or in VR, and that's certainly something that would bog you in VR.

I'll bet that RTX would be fucking awesome if it's supported; I'm imagining a polished DC-3 (sexiest thing in the air... Ever.) in that engine with ray tracing... Damn.

X Plane looks great, as well. That series has been around a while, and reminds me of an earlier MFS competitor. I can't remember the name at the moment. It might have been Flight Unlimited, but I think there was another.

I personally enjoy Falcon 3.0, and I really want someone to jump back in that arena. I built my first 286 to play Falcon, actually. Nothing has touched it yet, and 4.0 is still being modded. What the hell happened to that industry?

I always wanted to fly the F-16, and was really close to having a shot at it, but failed the physical due to a harmless (in normal life) heart defect. That's the only reason I joined the Army. I couldn't do what I wanted, and I was there already... Well, off to basic, then.

I'll get my "simulator" fix when Mechwarrior 5 is eventually released. Mechwarrior Online sucks; it defeats the purpose. Why not just play Quake Champions or CS: Source?

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[kennith]

Looks like later on I'll have a chance to connect the fans to a PWM splitter to clean up the cooling wiring.

I'll be tidying up cables for quite some time over the weekend, as well. I've got some nice individually braided extensions in there to manage.

Then it's installing the game SSD and making a few pieces of aluminum trim, such as a PSU shroud. That will cover everything, but have a low-restriction grill on a cut out a few inches above the bottom intake fan with a half-height curved baffle. This will allow a slight breeze over the PSU; preventing heat from rising enough to need to use it's own fan.

Moreover, the extensions allow me to attach cables to a small frame down there along the sides to benefit, as well.

People don't fully grasp electronics cooling. They blather on and on about the CPU temperature, and ignore motherboard, socket, and certainly wire temperatures, because they don't see the numbers popping up. That's the wrong answer. The socket pins, components, and every drop of solder at the rear warm up. So do the wires. No, you won't see a massive temperature drop in these areas if you cool them.

What you will do, however, is take a small load off the things you are typically trying to cool, and allow heat to transfer more readily in all directions.

How that helps in several ways is a little complicated, but the end result is a longer-lasting, quieter system that can survive in higher temperature environments.

That's one reason I can sell any system I build with a ten year hardware warranty and never have to worry about paying out. There are others, but that's a bit of secret sauce for anyone who wants to push their overclocking limits or anything of the like. You've got a touch more freedom to tweak; not much, but it's there, and those guys are always after the smallest boost.

Sometimes you just need that one extra weasel cough of voltage to top a chart in your class, and this can get you a half step closer to being able to do it.

It's not as effective as it used to be, given all the surface mount components nowadays, but it does still work.

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[braves6117]

The reason I might run dual 1080s is Davinci Resolve.

Resolve may be able to use two GPUs. If it's genuinely set up for that, twin 1080s will handily beat out a single RTX;

For whatever it's worth, I've confirmed this is the case.

 

[kennith]

For whatever it's worth, I've confirmed this is the case.

Interesting.

Edit: I'm glad you said something, because NOBODY else knows what the fuck they are talking about. Just a bunch of idiots who shouldn't be using computers, cheap fucks, your stereotypical moon-brained Apple enthusiasts, and Blackmagic not being clear about anything. Can you elaborate at all, or have you just noticed a boost? Any answer will be more helpful than none, if you have one.

From the average of what I've gathered:

1: Resolve doesn't use SLI, but does address and manage both cards by itself.

2: It doesn't recognize the increased VRAM as present in a single pool, but manages to use all the VRAM anyway via the above management.

Neither of those pieces of information are useful, and yet that's the only information available; if it's even been interpreted properly.

I'm just going to call Blackmagic on Monday, but something tells me I won't get a clear answer there, as well.

16 gigs of VRAM and two GPUs actually being used is a very big deal; so long as X570 can handle two NVME drives (boot and media storage) in use at the same time as those two cards without saturating anything. I'm not sure about that yet, because as again, nobody knows what the fuck they're talking about.

After about a day and a half of moving files and batch editing on that 1tb M.2, nobody is taking that thing away from me. I was immediately spoiled.

So, it'll be important to be sure I'm not screwing my bandwidth by adding in that second GPU when using both M.2 slots. That's another question, though, and unlikely to be answered by anyone else... Ever. I'll just figure it out if I buy another card.

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[JUKE179r]

My Win7 desktop PC still has an Adaptec SCSI PCI card. lol

 

[brian4d]

It's about time they released a new Microsoft Flight Simulator. That looks outstanding, and I'm glad they're saying "fuck your hardware". Don't cater to the lowest in that field. Push limits. It had better support Crossfire and SLI, from the looks of it; because I'd want to run that on three X34s or in VR, and that's certainly something that would bog you in VR.

I'll bet that RTX would be fucking awesome if it's supported; I'm imagining a polished DC-3 (sexiest thing in the air... Ever.) in that engine with ray tracing... Damn.

X Plane looks great, as well. That series has been around a while, and reminds me of an earlier MFS competitor. I can't remember the name at the moment. It might have been Flight Unlimited, but I think there was another.

I personally enjoy Falcon 3.0, and I really want someone to jump back in that arena. I built my first 286 to play Falcon, actually. Nothing has touched it yet, and 4.0 is still being modded. What the hell happened to that industry?

I always wanted to fly the F-16, and was really close to having a shot at it, but failed the physical due to a harmless (in normal life) heart defect. That's the only reason I joined the Army. I couldn't do what I wanted, and I was there already... Well, off to basic, then.

I'll get my "simulator" fix when Mechwarrior 5 is eventually released. Mechwarrior Online sucks; it defeats the purpose. Why not just play Quake Champions or CS: Source?

Cheers,

Kennith

Xplane has been doing VR for 3 years. Check this out. X-plane can't utilize SLI or crossfire but would love the RTX. Falcon 4.0 was great. I started with Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe, Chuck Yeagers Air Combat and Aces of the Pacific. That industry has gone to a small but reputable company called 1C Game studios with the Il-2 Series. The modern combat has gone by the way of open source with DCS or Digital combat simulator. To be honest the online role-play with DCS is stunning and I'd bet Mgreenspan would even find it interesting and realistic.

Now, this Canyon run looks like a good time!

 

[kennith]

My Win7 desktop PC still has an Adaptec SCSI PCI card. lol

Nothing wrong with that.

In my living quarters, I have these machines currently operational and frequently in use:

1: The rig in this thread.

2: Athlon 3200XP machine with the fastest AGP card I could find at the time.

3: 1981 IBM 5150 (most of my writing is done on this, and then moved to the main rig)

4: A PS/2 386 (that I'm about to gut and rebuild soon, because I never could find a sound card for the damned thing).

5: Thinkpad 25th Anniversary edition for my commonly used laptop.

6: Once I get another PSU and swap the GPU in this, the FX8350 will be in my home office for the expansive VR space.

To be fair, I'm pretty in to vintage computing and have a massive collection for my own purposes and for sale, but I do still use the older stuff for entertainment and work. Even something ten years behind the times can keep up just fine; but I wouldn't want to deal with this 6K post-processing nonsense on one. The 8350 is about as slow as I'd go for that.

Anything else, though? No worries. Games, productivity, networking, streaming, even server use... It's perfectly fine. I didn't upgrade my Radeon 6970 until it choked on Just Cause 3. It was fine for almost anything else, and still holds up. I really like the Just Cause series, though, so it had to be done.

The only real modern issue is how much RAM browsers eat through. It's fucking unbelievable. If I ever thought I'd say any new computer purchase needs AT LEAST 16 gigs of ram, I must have imagined it for gaming; not browsing the damned webernets.

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[kennith]

Xplane has been doing VR for 3 years. Check this out. X-plane can't utilize SLI or crossfire but would love the RTX. Falcon 4.0 was great. I started with Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe, Chuck Yeagers Air Combat and Aces of the Pacific. That industry has gone to a small but reputable company called 1C Game studios with the Il-2 Series. The modern combat has gone by the way of open source with DCS or Digital combat simulator. To be honest the online role-play with DCS is stunning and I'd bet Mgreenspan would even find it interesting and realistic.

Now, this Canyon run looks like a good time!

It might be worth a shot, but I don't typically enjoy multiplayer games. Even so, if it's a direct, individually-focused competition, I'm more open to give it a shot. I don't really consider my skill in flight simulators too much anymore, and I don't know how I'd perform. I've got a lot of nerve damage now, and if the muscle memory isn't there, I'll probably never be able to get it right again.

I'm only really certain I'm good at one kind of game: The FPS

When it comes to shooters, I'm absolutely tournament-level. No question. I top charts regularly, but when it comes to anything else (not sure about flight sims now), I'm actually not particularly good, and that becomes a problem. I'm a lazy gamer unless I'm rocket jumping and circle strafing.

The problem that creates is that I'm horrible in team games, and I don't want to really try too hard unless I'm fragging a bunch of modern candy canes that think they can face down pure, old-school skill. I am a campaign and deathmatch player exclusively; I hate getting a "job" in a game. That means I'm not going to get good enough to avoid letting the team down, and nobody likes that guy.

So, I stick to what I know.

The fucked up thing about flight simulators is that was genuinely the most painful disappointment in my life. To this very day I'm pissed off that I can't fly. I just kind of put it all in the proverbial "attic" and left it there alongside the dream. I was so fucking close.

That said, one of the forgotten series is the old Janes games; like U.S. Navy Fighters. Of course, it was no Falcon, but it was a shit-ton of fun. They had an Air Force entry, as well, but I can't remember what it was called. The Navy version was best, though, because it was always fun to stall out and land sideways on the flight deck.

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[kennith]

Blackmagic Design US has no fucking clue how their software interacts with hardware. Not even the project manager understands it, and they have no facility for direct support. Don't even ask about the forum. I've read every thread and response on there, and they're ALL idiots. Every last one of them. There are no exceptions.

I'll have to call Singapore to get any real information out of them. Whoever Blackmagic really is will know something.

I haven't checked, but I believe this is a "Tilta" situation, where there actually is no Western presence of the company beyond a Kiosk in California in an empty office complex. Unlike Tilta, however, Blackmagic hardware is actually pretty damned exceptional, and so is their software. In my experience, that means I've been speaking to "the help".

Don't get me wrong, now. They're very nice, but so are most secretaries in empty office blocks.

Sometimes a US division is about as useful and well-equipped as most Indian divisions; especially when it's a "Datsun" scenario. We just get a marketing team and minor tech support, but they end up with that COO street cred. If the company thinks they need that facade to be taken seriously, I genuinely feel for the buggers, because they're probably right, and that's not fair to them at all.

I wish some of these manufacturers could come out of the closet. Even Engel has to pretend they're something they aren't.

Eh. I'm not going to put up with other SLI incompatibilities unless I'm sure it'll be bad ass in this specific program. Multi-GPU setups are kind of a pain in everyday use if you play games at all, and nothing I really enjoy playing really takes advantage of more than one.

Whatever. I might change my mind when I install the window. There is some cool factor to consider, and I really dig the aesthetics of my 1080; but then again, Doom Eternal is going to support the fuck out of RTX, and I don't want to miss out on that. Hell with ray tracing is worth a grand. LOL

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[kennith]

Still got some minor wiring to do to really clean it up, and I'm about to measure for the PSU shroud, but I think this particular case will be done soon.

My biggest cosmetic consideration at the moment is whether or not to leave a metal section available for side fan mounting. I can mount it straight to 1/4" cast acrylic, but that's not the most fun stuff in which to cut a hole at this point, and I've only got a 120mm saw, now. Sold the 140 a while back. I'm a little shaky, and I've only got one plate of smoked acrylic left in that thickness.

I'd need to buy a 140mm hole saw either way if I don't leave the factory steel available. Whatever. I'll figure it out. It's not the final case, but I might keep it for a while, so I'd like to at least do a halfway decent job. I mostly use 120mm fans, but the 140s have really climbed the ladder in quality over time, and can generate some decent static pressure.

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[brian4d]

Ahh, case fab. Take a picture when you're done for sure. You air/water cooling? I found years ago (running AMD 64 single core, things got hotter than hell) channeling the hot air out the back kept temps lower than focusing on cooler air in the front. In other words, smaller fans for the intake, huge fans to spit out the hot air. But, as you know, every case is different. Air movement/cooling was big for me but cable management was equally as demanding.

I'm so busy now I went for the gaming laptop rig. When my son gets older we'll build gaming PC's togeather if that's what he's interested in. Now gaming laptops should be the next wonder of the world. I'm running a skylake, 32gig of RAM, 512 Solid state, 1 GIG 7200 Raptor, Gfororce 1060 with 6 gigs of VRAM paired with a 1080 144htz monitor via mini-port, fuck HDMI, all courtrous of Micro Star International and Phillips.. I'll be jumping to 4K with my next rig but I'm in no hurry. I rushed out and bought a 4K TV and still run 1080 stuff, stupid me.

 

[kennith]

Ahh, case fab. Take a picture when you're done for sure. You air/water cooling? I found years ago (running AMD 64 single core, things got hotter than hell) channeling the hot air out the back kept temps lower than focusing on cooler air in the front. In other words, smaller fans for the intake, huge fans to spit out the hot air. But, as you know, every case is different. Air movement/cooling was big for me but cable management was equally as demanding.

I'm so busy now I went for the gaming laptop rig. When my son gets older we'll build gaming PC's togeather if that's what he's interested in. Now gaming laptops should be the next wonder of the world. I'm running a skylake, 32gig of RAM, 512 Solid state, 1 GIG 7200 Raptor, Gfororce 1060 with 6 gigs of VRAM paired with a 1080 144htz monitor via mini-port, fuck HDMI, all courtrous of Micro Star International and Phillips.. I'll be jumping to 4K with my next rig but I'm in no hurry. I rushed out and bought a 4K TV and still run 1080 stuff, stupid me.

MSI makes a damned good gaming laptop at a surprisingly reasonable price. It's hard to believe the performance they're squeezing out of those at the cost. That was a solid choice.

It'll be nice to build computers with him if he's interested. Local multiplayer is still outstanding, and there's nothing like a bit of Minecraft for good clean fun. If you download this strange game called "Spintires" you can do some realistic simulated off-pavement driving, as well. Yes, that game does indeed exist; with mud physics. I don't know why the fuck it exists, but it does...

You might even want to consider starting out with some vintage stuff. He'd be the only kid on the block that actually knows how computers work, and they're just as fun.

I probably won't go to 4K anytime soon beyond what I need for editing. Nobody makes a TV that will beat my plasma yet, and for computing in general, 21:9 and 3440X1440p is one hell of a sweet spot, somewhat cheaper, and it's not as difficult to run. You can get monitors good enough for grading in that class, and they're getting faster every day, as well. My first-gen X34 is clocked to 100hz right now, and they're getting much better.

The higher the better in games (if you can pump the pixels fast enough), but there's a point at which they have to sacrifice image/viewing quality, so as much as I'd like to have a 240hz as my primary, it's just not reasonable. I do too much other stuff to give up much, in that regard.

Cooling is a fun subject. I've been overclocking for a very long time. I don't do it so much anymore because stuff is plenty fast out of the box now (and you just get lazy after a while), but cooling has always been one of my favorite parts of building a computer. It's one more step to take to give someone the value they are paying for.

It's one of the most simple, yet vastly misunderstood aspects of electronics. Most people people teaching or writing/creating in regard to the subject don't understand it, but thankfully for them it's not critical in normal use. That doesn't mean it's not important for overclocking, longevity, function in adverse environments, and certainly from a quality perspective; it just means it's hard to genuinely fuck up.

That comes down to case manufacturers actually knowing what they're doing. People criticize them for thermals, but in general it's not warranted. The only genuinely bad case I've ever seen beyond Apple stuff is the Antec 900; which of course was praised by everyone and their three-toed little sister... It's a terrible case from every perspective, but that's the only example I can think of.

I'll probably go liquid for the CPU when I build the other case, but for now that Wraith cooler it came with is actually pretty decent. Using the factory thermal interface material I got an automatic 5% overclock, and it's got almost a 20c window before it throttles with 100% load on all cores...

I mean... Fucking hell. Almost takes the fun out of it.

She gets warm, for sure, but not out of line. I think the stock cooler will be fine until I get to the other case. I'm not a fan of five pound air coolers hanging off a motherboard, anyway. I'd rather increase the efficiency of a smaller unit or just go liquid; but then getting that motherboard conducting heat more efficiently makes a bigger difference, because you don't have that fan where the platform was designed to expect it.

For now, I'll be using baffles to get the air where I want it while still keeping the flow smooth. The next case will be completely pulled apart and fully customized with my cooling practices in mind. That A71 F will be enduring a lot of work, but it'll be nice when I'm done. I'll be sticking to the "case mod" aesthetic, so it won't be an art piece; but it'll make a statement.

I'll take some shots of this one when I get that shroud made and finish up the wiring, but I'm still deciding how I'd like to configure my 5.25" card reader/USB hub. It's not going to be perfect, but it'll be mostly clean.

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[kennith]

I've also got to put a sound card and two optical drives in there as well as that octopus of a card reader, so it can only be so clean inside.

The cables will be handled in the Lian Li, but I can only do so much without cutting, and I don't intend to put much work in this Fractal case.

On-board audio still sucks to this day. I understand it in a laptop, but it's crazy not to use a sound card in a desktop. Night and day.

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[kennith]

Yay! Now I get to hide a red PCB for the PCIE USB 3.0 card, as well as molex connectors. I hate those fucking things. It's the stupidest connector ever designed.

Something I wish PSU manufacturers would provide is at least one cable that terminates in a single fucking molex, and one that terminates into a single SATA power connector. Of course I can make that happen myself, but I'd rather not have to. I'll pay another twenty bucks for a PSU if that's what it takes.

I can't for the life of me figure out why they don't. Every system integrator wants it, and always has. Their entire market would love it.

The sound card (Xonar D2x) requires 4 pin floppy, and then a connector I've forgotten at this point (I'll eventually remember what it is) to hook up to the MIDI daughter card. I'll be dropping in an NZXT internal USB hub, as well, to get that card reader and hub up and running.

I'm thinking about having that USB card mounted to the shroud, with the ports facing toward the side panel. If I cut a hole there and seal it, then replace the card bracket with a flat one, I can have two 3.0 ports on the side of the machine and hide the card entirely. That would be interesting. I've never done that before.

I'll have to think about it. PCIE extensions are pretty cheap, after all. I'll just need to find one that's longer than average to avoid daisy chaining or having to make something I'm probably not dexterous enough to make anymore.

Cheers,

Kennith