New Engine advice??

[Jarrod]

Seems like I may need a new engine in my 2000 Disco. Anybody that has went through this have any good advice as far as engine to replace with and what kind of money I can expect to pay? I have a Bosch engine with secondary air. So far I am thinking that I might as well go for the extra ponies and get a 4.6 short block. Any reason not to upgrade to a 4.6 vs 4.0? My best guesses are that I should axpect to pay around $6K at the low end for a done deal.
:banghead:

 

[HunterAK]

Seems like I may need a new engine in my 2000 Disco. Anybody that has went through this have any good advice as far as engine to replace with and what kind of money I can expect to pay? I have a Bosch engine with secondary air. So far I am thinking that I might as well go for the extra ponies and get a 4.6 short block. Any reason not to upgrade to a 4.6 vs 4.0? My best guesses are that I should axpect to pay around $6K at the low end for a done deal.
:banghead:

4.6 DEFINITELY and a performance cam kit... D&D Fabrications has one and RPI makes one as well... I have the D&D Crower Cam kit with the 4.6 in my 99 and love it...

Contact Will Tillery and see what, if any, 4.6's he has in stock... or check out Ebay or something... but whatever you decide on, I would get it totally rebuilt if I were you. Call D&D Fabrications for the parts.

Everything from your 4.0 will bolt up to the 4.6... Are your heads salvagable? Use em if they are. The only differences in the two engines that I noticed were the SAI port plugs in the 4.6 heads that I used. They needed to be plugged (thanks Jeff-salmon is on the way), but that's only if you're using 4.6 heads. Also, my 4.6 was from an '01 RR and Ford had taken over by then and some of the thread patterns were different than on my 99 (BMW owned then), like on the oil pump where the oil pressure sending unit screws in, but that was really the only difference...

Do a search for 4.6 conversion... there are a handful of us that have done it and could help you with it... If you're going to go all the way, go big.

 

[Jarrod]

How dramatic was your power increase?

 

[HunterAK]

How dramatic was your power increase?

Noticeably more in low-mid range tourque... Horsepower? It's hard to say for sure but it's a 15% gain in displacement, so it's considerable. All that is debatable when trying to guage EXACTLY what the increases amount to, but I can tell it's dramatic enough to warrant the conversion and ESPECIALLY if you're forced to get a new engine. You might as well come out on top ya know?

Otherwise, you're just back to where you started... turn it into a positive atriot:

 

[jhmover]

Just the difference between a stock 4.0 and a stock 4.6 is very noticeable. I"d go with the 4.6 even if you don't mod it.

 

[jmoore]

just curious, why do you think you need a new engine?

 

[Jarrod]

Kind of preparing myself for the worst at this point...... After a Seafoam treatment, started to get random misfire faults and consistent misfires in cylinder 7. After some investigation, looks to be ALOT of oil and some coolant in cylinder 7.

Anyway, as pointed out, great excuse to get a llittle more power in this truck. Silver lining, right?

 

[Schattenjager]

2001 + Chevy 350 conversion (alloy)

300 HP, 285 ft lbs of torque, same weight as LR, cheap parts EVERYWHERE (if you should ever need them)
No leaks

An adaptor plate and engine control stuff and your are good to go. I am pricing this project even now...

 

[Jarrod]

Very Very interesting. What are you finding out so far regarding investment and complications?

 

[Dan Erickson]

2001 + Chevy 350 conversion (alloy)

300 HP, 285 ft lbs of torque, same weight as LR, cheap parts EVERYWHERE (if you should ever need them)
No leaks

An adaptor plate and engine control stuff and your are good to go. I am pricing this project even now...

Are you saying you have done this, or suggesting that HE do this?

Seems to me you would pretty much have to gut a bunch of electronics as the ECM will be a bit confused looking for sensors that are not there, or are seding the wrong signals.

A lot of extra mods would have to be done, in order to make it work.

 

[Jarrod]

I am not going to be doing this engine swap - way over my head. In talking the mechanic that will be doing it, I discussed all options with him. I even brought up the 350 conversion and he basically said that we would be getting in way too much of a mess with all of the Disco's interrelated systems.

 

[skippy3k]

Are you saying you have done this, or suggesting that HE do this?

Seems to me you would pretty much have to gut a bunch of electronics as the ECM will be a bit confused looking for sensors that are not there, or are seding the wrong signals.

A lot of extra mods would have to be done, in order to make it work.

He has a lot of ideas that he doesn't follow through on.

 

[RayDunn]

Jarrod-

So did your mechanic say that replacing the engine with a land rover engine other than the stock 4.0 would be a mess, or that replacing the engine with a non-land rover engine would be a mess? Or both? Just curious because I like the idea of replacing the Disco engine with something where parts are cheaper and easier to find, but all of the "other" costs (computers, electric system, etc) assocatied with this have got to add up.

 

[Jarrod]

OK, so I am getting a little confused on the route I should take on this and need some advice from you guys. Here is the setup: 2KD2 with 111k miles on it. Have not had any real problems with this truck, but it has been seeming to lose a bit of power lately. Put Seafom through the oil pickup line, smoked like hell for a while, but never saw that it heated up. After treatment, immediately began to run like crap and through codes for random cylinder misfires and cylinder 7 misfire. Drove the vehicle maybe a total of 30 miles in this condition monitoring with a code reader and seeing what would happen. Still never getting hot on me. Once a scope was put in cylinder 7 found a good bit of oil and water in that cylinder.
So here is the question: Do I immediately get a short block for this truck and assume that it has either slipped a sleeve or broken a piston ring and assume that the heads are fine since it was not overheating OR do I first have the mechanic pull the heads and hope against hope that I cracked a head or blew a gasket? The second is the safest route and seems the most prudent, however I am not doing the work myself and it is going to cost more to remove the heads while the engine is still in the truck and may just be a huge waste of time and my money?
Really not sure how to proceed - please give me some ideas.

 

[Jarrod]

Ray-
Mechanic only has an issue witha non-rover engine, such as a Chevy. Everything that I have ever read kind of leads me in thaqt direction also.

 

[kennith]

Check to see if you have a blown head gasket first. It's an easy fix if you do. If you haven't changed your coolant often enough, it's very possible. If it was a dropped liner, you would probably have heard some noise.

Even if it is a ring, any place ought to be able to fix it. An engine is an engine, and all these places have access to computerized shop manual info, as well as a good parts supply line.

If you don't know how to realy check for these things and be sure, pay the dealer to scan it and give you a reccomendation. I doubt you need an engine. I'll bet any good shop will take her in and be able to tell you what's wrong.

If you already had problems, the seafoam can clear crap out and make them seem worse.

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[Jarrod]

If a ring were to go, would that not also score the cylinder walls, most likely? So I guess your vote is to look at the heads first and keep the fingers crossed? Thanks for the feedback.

 

[XtremeMarine]

When I overheated my 4.0 in the fall, I went with a 4.6 long block conversion. Horsepower is hard to notice with only a 29 hp increase in a 3 ton truck; but the 50 ft. lbs. was very evident. Leaving from a standstill in sport mode; towing; and off road in low range. That torque increase was exceptional and worth the investment. A cam , intake, headers, and exhaust all combined won't give you 50 ft. lbs. on the 4.0 and cost as much as the labor to install the 4.6. Good luck.

 

[Schattenjager]

Are you saying you have done this, or suggesting that HE do this?

Seems to me you would pretty much have to gut a bunch of electronics as the ECM will be a bit confused looking for sensors that are not there, or are sending the wrong signals.

A lot of extra mods would have to be done, in order to make it work.

YES to all except the number of mods! I have done three motor swaps in my time - a FORD 4.0 V6 in an MGB, a Chevy 350 in a 280Z (which required more body work to hold the power than anything else) and a Chrysler Turbo 4 put in a Fiat X 1/9.

I want to be done with the LR worries about bad cylinders, leaks, electric problems etc. so when the time comes, I will pull the motor and ALL of the LR engine management. This might entail losing the ABS and TC, but that is another thread...

Once you have a clean slate, so to speak, you wire the new engine management kit (of which there are many) drop your motor, make your connections, and off you go. This is over simplified, but it is really not that much trouble.

Consider the final product: a powerful, reliable, leak free Rover with super inexpensive parts available everywhere.

just now my DII is fine with 65K on the clock, but as Louis said: Chance favors the prepared mind.

 

[Dan Erickson]

I agree with Kennith about verifying the head gasket first.

Have you done a compression test (dry then wet)?

Have you done a leak down test?

Not to try to try to scare you but, I was having a lot of trouble with misfires on #7 for a few months. It was also after a seafoam treatment, but probably just coincidental.

The misfires continued (even to the point of the MIL flashing at times) until the #7 rod broke. I never figured out what the exact cause was, but what I found was the piston skirt was in the oil pan with the wrist pin as well as the top half of the rod, while the pisotn deck remained in the cylinder.

While the sleeve/liner did not appear to be out of position, it was pretty damaged from the lower half of the rod (remaining on the crank) banging around before I could kill the engine.

Like I said, I don't want to scare you, but your story sounds a bit familiar. I think it may be worth some exploratory surgery to find out what is wrong.

You would probably like the 4.6 (even without the cam), but you may save yourself some serious headache (and money), if you just tear into your existing motor before something major happens. As you are putting it all back together, you can decide on a few performance upgrades that make it seem even more worthwhile. I really don't see a reason to get crazy with ideas of Chevy engines or diesel engines etc. You would end up spending WAY more time and money.

If it were me, I would line up a second vehicle for a month or two, and tear into the motor. Hopefully, you have a garage to do this (especially with the cold).

With the RAVE CD, supplemented by others on this board, you will learn a boat load.

We can talk you through it.

I suppose you could get a independent shop to do this for you , but it will obviously cost much more.

I know it sucks, but I hope this helps a bit.

Peace,

Dan